Back in 2018 I wanted a small beater truck when I bought a house (to move tools, lumber, garden stuff, etc). I was originally looking for a first generation Toyota Tacoma (later models are F150-sized), but was surprised that the 20 year old trucks were still selling for $12-14K. The lack of small trucks in the US is partially caused by bad regulation [1] that penalizes them (I am surprised the article doesn't mention this).
I wound up getting a Japanese kei truck [2]. It was under $4,000 to import, title, etc. It gets 50mpg (4.7 liters/100km) and carries 880 lbs (400kg) in the 4.5x6.5ft bed (1.4x2m). You could use a large-ish garden shed as a garage if you wanted.
It's really the perfect city utility truck if you are mainly a weekend warrior making trips to the hardware store, moving around plywood and tools, occasionally helping friends move apartments, etc. You can parallel park it damn near anywhere, turns on dime, and it's incredibly mechanically simple and easy to repair.
Only thing it lacks is modern safety features (for regulation reasons, it's only easy to import and drive trucks > 25 years old in the US). The one marginally common thing it can't do that a large modern pickup can is tow a boat (kei vehicles are limited to 63 horsepower).
> I wound up getting a Japanese kei truck [2]. It was under $4,000 to import, title, etc. It gets 50mpg (4.7 liters/100km) and carries 880 lbs (400kg) in the 4.5x6.5ft bed (1.4x2m). You could use a large-ish garden shed as a garage if you wanted.
This is great information!
I would like to dig in a bit deeper because I need a reliable work truck too.
So in California it's not impossible to find good quality trucks at a great price.
For example: My last truck purchase was a F350 7.3 Turbo Diesel for $1500
Why? Because it was a manual, the diff was busted, body's all dented, seats torn out and the doors did not work as it was run as a jobsite truck and the contractor wanted to get rid of it.
After fixing it up, the challenge became the ongoing registration and insurance fees in California which I had not taken into account.
The DMV in California classifies a F350 as a commercial truck.
As a result, you have to pay a much higher registration and insurance fees than what you would pay for a SUV or minivan.
Because of this, it's financially smarter to just rent trucks from Lowe's/HD/UHaul/CL for whenever I need it unless I'm using it more than 6 months per year - which I don't.
Now this $4k truck is new and welcome news to me, so thank you.
At 6' I'll probably fit a bit tight BUT how much could the registration and insurance fees in California be?
The same as a SUV?
Less?
Please, feel free to contact me please. I would love to continue this discussion
I'm a sucker for El-Camino-ized cars (replace the back with a bed, like the El Camino or Australian Utes); I'd love to have one of these turned into BEV with a little battery pack (ie Chevy Spark) for a daily driver and run around town vehicle.
I have been fitting a little under 1000lbs of sand / gravel in my hatchback (elantra gt) a few times this past week. It can also handle 10' 2x4s for short drives. Given than I only need that a few times a year, it's a no brainer. Also, Home Depot rents trucks/vans for $30 for 75 minutes; U-Haul is better if you need them for the whole day.
I sometimes wish I had a small dumpy pickup so I could put bulk stuff in (and full 4x8 sheets), but mostly it's fine without.
Related: my dad looked to replace his 92 Dodge Dakota, single cab, long bed (which was a great, functional truck) and could find absolutely zero similar size trucks out there (short cab, long bed, no ladder required to get to the front seat). You can probably design them on the manufacturer site, but no dealers will have them in stock.
I needed some wood from HD and tried to rent a truck, it was a nightmare. At least at my local HD, they don't allow you to reserve. They only have 2 trucks, both of which are constantly busy. They won't even hold it while you grab the stuff you want to transport home, so you have to camp out or get there super early, rent it, and then let it sit while you do your shopping and check out.
Agree with using u-haul if needed, but that's also normally quite a pain. We bought a truck recently, and it's been super nice to just hop in and go. Full disclosure, we bought one only because it'll be towing a track car 2x/month, and at that rate renting stops becoming at all attractive.
> Also, Home Depot rents trucks/vans for $30 for 75 minutes; U-Haul is better if you need them for the whole day.
I had a good friend argue that this was too inconvenient. My response was that I believe the amount of effort put into affording a new truck far outweighs the inconvenience of filling out a form or two at home depot.
> I sometimes wish I had a small dumpy pickup so I could put bulk stuff in (and full 4x8 sheets), but mostly it's fine without.
Unfortunately even these are pretty sought after! I have a '94 Toyota Pickup(right before they rebranded them to the Tacoma) that I bought off of my father in law for pennies. In many places in the world these are cult trucks.
>I sometimes wish I had a small dumpy pickup so I could put bulk stuff in (and full 4x8 sheets)
Minivans are so much more versatile and many can take full 4x8 sheets. You can carry more passengers and or have a fully covered cargo area. If utilizing for the versatile "pickup" needs try and find one with the stow and go seats (absolutely for the back seat, and preferably for the middle row).
Yep, small cars can do more than you give 'em credit for.
I considered getting a truck for some time, but ended up buying a 5x8 utility trailer. Sure, it's a little less convenient (and more bouncy) than a truck, and my 2009 Chevy Cobalt doesn't have a very high towing capacity, but for my purposes, the trailer gets the job done just fine.
I will happily continue to avoid car payments until the wheels fall off (which should be awhile, because I just replaced the bearings).
> I sometimes wish I had a small dumpy pickup so I could put bulk stuff in (and full 4x8 sheets), but mostly it's fine without.
Utility trailers are cheap and require hardly any maintenance. The model I have is really cool in that it stands up on end, so it takes up very little space in the garage.
> my dad looked to replace his 92 Dodge Dakota, single cab, long bed (which was a great, functional truck) and could find absolutely zero similar size trucks out there (short cab, long bed, no ladder required to get to the front seat). You can probably design them on the manufacturer site, but no dealers will have them in stock.
I used to have a ford ranger, and that was my feeling after it finally died. The US truck market is essentially big commercial vehicles meets luxury SUV.
There is a 2019 Ford Ranger out there somewhere, though I've heard mixed things.
Just saying, but you are most likely exceeding the specifications of your vehicle.
The tires, brakes and accident safety systems are designed to protect you and others. Look at the door sticker and be clear what your car is designed for.
That said, I liked having a small toyota pickup (the one named "pickup").
They don't make useful trucks any more, that's why a dilapidated toyota with a standard cab, long bed, and half a million miles still costs $10k. Like you I can put a quarter ton of gravel in a Honda Fit. 500 lbs of gravel only takes up 4 cubic feet. It's not like you can fill the bed of an F-150 with sand and drive off; the truck would break in half.
Nice, ~1000lbs of sand in the back of an elantra gt must put it on the bump stops, no?
I made a roof rack for my miata which attaches to the roll bar and windshield frame like the convertible top, it enables moving 4x8 sheets of plywood/drywall. I even moved a 305 gallon cistern using the setup without trouble, and a dozen 4x6x12' beams of douglas fir.
The next time you're driving on a highway in the U.S., entertain yourself by playing this game: count the number of pickup trucks (non-commercial) with empty beds, resetting to zero every time you spy one that's actually carrying or towing something. Try not to be surprised when you reach the triple digits!
Small pickups, on the other hand, are fantastic. I've got a 2005 Ford Ranger. The bed is big enough that I've hauled drywall, lumber, flagstones, furniture, a dead elk... pretty much everything I've ever needed to move. But on the other hand, it's narrower than almost anything on the road today (barring compact cars of its own era and before), so it's easy to park. It's also got enough window visibility that I can easily keep track of each corner of the truck when I'm trying to park. It's got high enough clearance that I don't scrape the front when I pull up to the curb in a parking lot, and that I can drive down rutted forest roads without too much concern.
I see a ton of little Rangers and S10s around town, but judging by how difficult it was to find my own, other people recognize how useful they are too! I think there are a lot of us who just want a small utilitarian vehicle, but when the Ranger was discontinued we lost that option in pickup format.
Space requirements for families have also increased. Which is rarely discussed when talking about why more people are buying SUVs.
Car seats are a legal requirement. Most take up more space than a fully grown adult and due to additional padding/side impact protection, keep growing. So a family that needs to fit three kids across, only really has the choice of SUVs or more expensive Minivans (the cheap/fleet tier Minivans cost the same as low end SUVs while being worse/outdated designs).
So why do people buy SUVs? Higher ride means that more of the car's internals can be pushed out of the passenger compartment (particularly the rear seat/trunk) and they have a wider Axle track meaning longer seats. Which is conveniently exactly what car seats and strollers benefit from. Meaning they're great family cars.
The continued rise in trucks is more due to the Crew Cab-style becoming functional, and them being used as a family vehicle as well as utility (e.g. moving, dump runs, DIY projects, etc).
Without even trying to understand why people buy these vehicles, the discussion largely turns into moralizing. People have good reasons on a whole. They don't need to be using a Crew Cab truck exclusively for work for it to make sense, or an SUV for off-road adventures (most SUVs cannot off-road anyway).
I always preferred sporty sedans. But then I became a (relatively handy) homeowner and a father. After I got my pickup truck with a crew cab, I couldn't imagine not owning one, even though (as the title says) it barely fits in my garage.
I work from home and drive maybe 6K miles per year, so the fuel costs and emissions aren't a significant consideration for me. But there's something in the bed almost every weekend, and even when there isn't, there's usually a kid or three in the back seat.
If you don't have a family, or you automatically call a handyman when something breaks, I can understand why you might not want or need to own one of these magnificent vehicles.
But for many of us, these trucks are carefully considered purchases that solve a lot of problems.
There is very small subset of people who actually need an SUV or Truck. Most cars now days can comfortably fit 5. Most cars can fit 2 car seats with a booster seat. Most get them because they like to sit up high so they can see over traffic. That doesn't help when everyone else drives an SUV or Truck.
On a more serious note I have been watching YouTube car reviews for a while and eventually they get bored and start reviewing SUVs and CUVs. There is an internal capacity difference between wagons and sedans.
Wagons and sedans lose internal capacity to drivetrain components because the body rises lower. Great for handling and efficiency.
It becomes really obvious when you look at The Straight Pipes box test.
That said just because the difference exists doesn’t mean people know or need it.
Miata is Always The Answer doesn't really nest well. You get a Miata, you turn it into a track/race car... Now you need a truck to tow it, can't really load a Miata onto a Miata, unfortunately.
I just wish SUVs and pickups to be taxed proportionally to all the damage they cause, either to the road, or to others (higher accident rate with pedestrians and fatality rates), and that's besides the pollution.
On this topic, I'm a single vehicle family with two toddlers. We have a Nissan rogue and are very happy. But I've been looking at possible upgrades in size as the kids get older and its stupid.
First off, the Rogue is considered a "compact crossover" and yet it has far more cargo space than the Murano or Pathfinder. I don't get names. It's like cars are named like video cards. So confusing.
Also, if I do want to go up in size, I have to go way up. And suddenly it won't fit comfortably in my garage. And it's annoying. I don't want a six cylinder engine. I don't want a tow kit. I just want a rogue with 20% more trunk so I can fit everthing a modern parent needs for a trip with two kids.
Hey, Minivans are great! Those bad boys fit an astounding amount of cargo, are easy to drive, and most are insanely reliable. You'd better just bit the bullet lol.
I love our minivan. It fits our family comfortably, and can haul anything I need it to (a full size sheet of plywood will fit flat on the floor in the back).
The rise of the Platinum F350 as a luxury vehicle is something I wouldn't have predicted. It's crazy how much money people are willing to spend on an impractical vehicle like a full-size pickup.
That being said, I really like big trucks. I guess it's selfish to want one, but I still do. Of course I don't live in the city, where it would be more hassle than enjoyable.
I've heard contractors complaining that they can't get cheap basic work trucks anymore. That was one of my thoughts about people complaining about non ones going to buy an electric vehicles because 'too expensive'. Have they priced a full sized truck lately?
I mean I want a Suburban or Expedition... I mean I guess I could get a minivan too but having towing capacity for something I may never tow sounds good. :/
What's the problem with liking big vehicles? To each his own.
I love motorbikes. They are so cool. I don't need it, it is not practical for commute, it rains a lot where I live... yet I have one just to ride on weekends.
HN has a huge hate boner for USA vehicle culture. I'd imagine the majority opinion is that one should ride a bicycle for any trip under 5 miles, public transit the rest. And if your arm is really twisted, buy the smallest, least expensive, and most efficient vehicle one can get their hands on.
God forbid you like a vehicle with power, is fun to drive, or you have hobbies / activities which facilitate it.
I'd like the article to provide an example of a modern stock vehicle that doesn't fit in a relatively modern standard garage.
The article claims that American garages "tend to be seven or eight feet high." The article also mentions a women whose F-150 doesn't fit in her garage. The tallest 2020 F-150 I can find is 6' 6.5". I found a 2020 Silverado that's nearly 6' 8". Where are these unmodified trucks that aren't fitting in 7 foot garages?
I really appreciate articles like this that call out our how off the walls absurd American car culture is. As someone who bikes to work, almost everyone I've met that bikes has developed a deep hatred (and fear) of car drivers (whose sense of entitlement has gone off the rails). Biking to work, you will on a regular basis encounter drivers that yell at you, try to run you off the road, floor the car by you (even when there is a red traffic light ahead)
All of the benefits of driving big cars, as I have previously argued, are illusory.
The benefit is pretty simple - they are bigger. I have a Prius and a Mazda CX-9 (somewhere from a mid-size to large SUV). I also have a wife and three kids. For daily use the Prius is fine, but if we go on vacation and there are 1.5 or so items of luggage per person, the Prius really doesn't work any more and we need to take the SUV.
Corollary: it becomes more and more difficult to open doors and get out of vehicles in shrinking parking spots designed only few years ago (at least where I live in Europe).
Even the once humble Jeep Wrangler has become bloated.
First, Jeep came out with a 4-door Wrangler. That became a mommiemobile SUV for the Hummer 2 crowd. Then customers wanted more "luxury" - entertainment systems, power windows, sound-deadening, always-on Internet. Now the base Wrangler is over $30K, and hard to get without options you don't need.
[+] [-] gamegoblin|6 years ago|reply
I wound up getting a Japanese kei truck [2]. It was under $4,000 to import, title, etc. It gets 50mpg (4.7 liters/100km) and carries 880 lbs (400kg) in the 4.5x6.5ft bed (1.4x2m). You could use a large-ish garden shed as a garage if you wanted.
It's really the perfect city utility truck if you are mainly a weekend warrior making trips to the hardware store, moving around plywood and tools, occasionally helping friends move apartments, etc. You can parallel park it damn near anywhere, turns on dime, and it's incredibly mechanically simple and easy to repair.
Only thing it lacks is modern safety features (for regulation reasons, it's only easy to import and drive trucks > 25 years old in the US). The one marginally common thing it can't do that a large modern pickup can is tow a boat (kei vehicles are limited to 63 horsepower).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Sambar
[+] [-] subhobroto|6 years ago|reply
This is great information!
I would like to dig in a bit deeper because I need a reliable work truck too.
So in California it's not impossible to find good quality trucks at a great price.
For example: My last truck purchase was a F350 7.3 Turbo Diesel for $1500
Why? Because it was a manual, the diff was busted, body's all dented, seats torn out and the doors did not work as it was run as a jobsite truck and the contractor wanted to get rid of it.
After fixing it up, the challenge became the ongoing registration and insurance fees in California which I had not taken into account.
The DMV in California classifies a F350 as a commercial truck.
As a result, you have to pay a much higher registration and insurance fees than what you would pay for a SUV or minivan.
Because of this, it's financially smarter to just rent trucks from Lowe's/HD/UHaul/CL for whenever I need it unless I'm using it more than 6 months per year - which I don't.
Now this $4k truck is new and welcome news to me, so thank you.
At 6' I'll probably fit a bit tight BUT how much could the registration and insurance fees in California be?
The same as a SUV?
Less?
Please, feel free to contact me please. I would love to continue this discussion
[+] [-] Smoosh|6 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_T360
[+] [-] csours|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] myself248|6 years ago|reply
I guess I'll have to see if there's a place stateside that I can sit in one and maybe drive it around the parking lot for a minute.
[+] [-] ndonnellan|6 years ago|reply
I sometimes wish I had a small dumpy pickup so I could put bulk stuff in (and full 4x8 sheets), but mostly it's fine without.
Related: my dad looked to replace his 92 Dodge Dakota, single cab, long bed (which was a great, functional truck) and could find absolutely zero similar size trucks out there (short cab, long bed, no ladder required to get to the front seat). You can probably design them on the manufacturer site, but no dealers will have them in stock.
[+] [-] johnbrodie|6 years ago|reply
Agree with using u-haul if needed, but that's also normally quite a pain. We bought a truck recently, and it's been super nice to just hop in and go. Full disclosure, we bought one only because it'll be towing a track car 2x/month, and at that rate renting stops becoming at all attractive.
[+] [-] tjr225|6 years ago|reply
I had a good friend argue that this was too inconvenient. My response was that I believe the amount of effort put into affording a new truck far outweighs the inconvenience of filling out a form or two at home depot.
> I sometimes wish I had a small dumpy pickup so I could put bulk stuff in (and full 4x8 sheets), but mostly it's fine without.
Unfortunately even these are pretty sought after! I have a '94 Toyota Pickup(right before they rebranded them to the Tacoma) that I bought off of my father in law for pennies. In many places in the world these are cult trucks.
[+] [-] jrs235|6 years ago|reply
Minivans are so much more versatile and many can take full 4x8 sheets. You can carry more passengers and or have a fully covered cargo area. If utilizing for the versatile "pickup" needs try and find one with the stow and go seats (absolutely for the back seat, and preferably for the middle row).
[+] [-] dacohenii|6 years ago|reply
I considered getting a truck for some time, but ended up buying a 5x8 utility trailer. Sure, it's a little less convenient (and more bouncy) than a truck, and my 2009 Chevy Cobalt doesn't have a very high towing capacity, but for my purposes, the trailer gets the job done just fine.
I will happily continue to avoid car payments until the wheels fall off (which should be awhile, because I just replaced the bearings).
[+] [-] alamortsubite|6 years ago|reply
Utility trailers are cheap and require hardly any maintenance. The model I have is really cool in that it stands up on end, so it takes up very little space in the garage.
[+] [-] blaser-waffle|6 years ago|reply
I used to have a ford ranger, and that was my feeling after it finally died. The US truck market is essentially big commercial vehicles meets luxury SUV.
There is a 2019 Ford Ranger out there somewhere, though I've heard mixed things.
[+] [-] d1zzy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] m463|6 years ago|reply
The tires, brakes and accident safety systems are designed to protect you and others. Look at the door sticker and be clear what your car is designed for.
That said, I liked having a small toyota pickup (the one named "pickup").
[+] [-] thedance|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pengaru|6 years ago|reply
I made a roof rack for my miata which attaches to the roll bar and windshield frame like the convertible top, it enables moving 4x8 sheets of plywood/drywall. I even moved a 305 gallon cistern using the setup without trouble, and a dozen 4x6x12' beams of douglas fir.
[+] [-] ADent|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uptown|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|6 years ago|reply
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/28/what-does-your-wo...
In other words, you should have a truck if you're using it for work and drive it around loaded.
[+] [-] alamortsubite|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] floren|6 years ago|reply
I see a ton of little Rangers and S10s around town, but judging by how difficult it was to find my own, other people recognize how useful they are too! I think there are a lot of us who just want a small utilitarian vehicle, but when the Ranger was discontinued we lost that option in pickup format.
[+] [-] Someone1234|6 years ago|reply
Car seats are a legal requirement. Most take up more space than a fully grown adult and due to additional padding/side impact protection, keep growing. So a family that needs to fit three kids across, only really has the choice of SUVs or more expensive Minivans (the cheap/fleet tier Minivans cost the same as low end SUVs while being worse/outdated designs).
So why do people buy SUVs? Higher ride means that more of the car's internals can be pushed out of the passenger compartment (particularly the rear seat/trunk) and they have a wider Axle track meaning longer seats. Which is conveniently exactly what car seats and strollers benefit from. Meaning they're great family cars.
The continued rise in trucks is more due to the Crew Cab-style becoming functional, and them being used as a family vehicle as well as utility (e.g. moving, dump runs, DIY projects, etc).
Without even trying to understand why people buy these vehicles, the discussion largely turns into moralizing. People have good reasons on a whole. They don't need to be using a Crew Cab truck exclusively for work for it to make sense, or an SUV for off-road adventures (most SUVs cannot off-road anyway).
[+] [-] symfoniq|6 years ago|reply
I work from home and drive maybe 6K miles per year, so the fuel costs and emissions aren't a significant consideration for me. But there's something in the bed almost every weekend, and even when there isn't, there's usually a kid or three in the back seat.
If you don't have a family, or you automatically call a handyman when something breaks, I can understand why you might not want or need to own one of these magnificent vehicles.
But for many of us, these trucks are carefully considered purchases that solve a lot of problems.
[+] [-] Whatarethese|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arielweisberg|6 years ago|reply
On a more serious note I have been watching YouTube car reviews for a while and eventually they get bored and start reviewing SUVs and CUVs. There is an internal capacity difference between wagons and sedans.
Wagons and sedans lose internal capacity to drivetrain components because the body rises lower. Great for handling and efficiency.
It becomes really obvious when you look at The Straight Pipes box test.
That said just because the difference exists doesn’t mean people know or need it.
[+] [-] pengaru|6 years ago|reply
It really is http://pengaru.com/~vc/tmp/tank1.jpg
[+] [-] johnbrodie|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thrill|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zzleeper|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Waterluvian|6 years ago|reply
First off, the Rogue is considered a "compact crossover" and yet it has far more cargo space than the Murano or Pathfinder. I don't get names. It's like cars are named like video cards. So confusing.
Also, if I do want to go up in size, I have to go way up. And suddenly it won't fit comfortably in my garage. And it's annoying. I don't want a six cylinder engine. I don't want a tow kit. I just want a rogue with 20% more trunk so I can fit everthing a modern parent needs for a trip with two kids.
Sigh. Is it minivan time?
[+] [-] acheron9383|6 years ago|reply
--Edit: Plus cops never pull you over
[+] [-] JshWright|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] symmitchry|6 years ago|reply
That being said, I really like big trucks. I guess it's selfish to want one, but I still do. Of course I don't live in the city, where it would be more hassle than enjoyable.
[+] [-] Gibbon1|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sjg007|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slouch|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jakearmitage|6 years ago|reply
I love motorbikes. They are so cool. I don't need it, it is not practical for commute, it rains a lot where I live... yet I have one just to ride on weekends.
[+] [-] waiseristy|6 years ago|reply
God forbid you like a vehicle with power, is fun to drive, or you have hobbies / activities which facilitate it.
[+] [-] benhurmarcel|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] macintux|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baddox|6 years ago|reply
The article claims that American garages "tend to be seven or eight feet high." The article also mentions a women whose F-150 doesn't fit in her garage. The tallest 2020 F-150 I can find is 6' 6.5". I found a 2020 Silverado that's nearly 6' 8". Where are these unmodified trucks that aren't fitting in 7 foot garages?
[+] [-] rjkennedy98|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lacker|6 years ago|reply
The benefit is pretty simple - they are bigger. I have a Prius and a Mazda CX-9 (somewhere from a mid-size to large SUV). I also have a wife and three kids. For daily use the Prius is fine, but if we go on vacation and there are 1.5 or so items of luggage per person, the Prius really doesn't work any more and we need to take the SUV.
[+] [-] doe88|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|6 years ago|reply
First, Jeep came out with a 4-door Wrangler. That became a mommiemobile SUV for the Hummer 2 crowd. Then customers wanted more "luxury" - entertainment systems, power windows, sound-deadening, always-on Internet. Now the base Wrangler is over $30K, and hard to get without options you don't need.
[+] [-] RickJWagner|6 years ago|reply
Hooboy. This author is not a car enthusiast. That's on the very small end of the big-truck power spectrum.