I'm a dad in Stockholm and currently in the first month of my parental leave which is expected to last at least more 6 months. My girlfriend just went back to work. Our daughter is 11 months old.
I worked 75% from the time she was 6 months old until a month ago when I went for a 100% parental. My employer pays me a bonus on top of the state money as a perk.
As far as I am concerned I can’t even imagine it being any other way. I understand how fortunate I am to be in Sweden. It truly is an amazing system.
I'm Norwegian, and the Norwegian system is similar to the Swedish. I live in the UK, though, and so I've seen how expensive and inflexible UK policy, which is much closer to US is Vs. for my brother in Norway.
I don't understand how people on more normal incomes do it in places like the UK and US.
Americans sometimes joke that we live in a third world country. Many people here are dissatisfied with our family and healthcare policies, but no one seems to know how to actually fix it.
Obamacare wasn't really a good solution. It was just the most politically viable.
So you need more than a good plan for what works better. You also need to somehow get it accepted politically and that ends up being a sticking point.
It’s really both... it does Trump, like no other self-respecting country would. But it also had Obama, who would arguably had had a more difficult time in Europe.
And that goes through everything: people dying from deceases of despair, yet medical research is still top of the field.
Obese people on these scooters everywhere, but also a far larger number of people that are incredibly fit.
A fast food culture that as hedonistic and short-sighted as a late Roman dictator, but also the most elaborate selection of fresh organic vegetables I’ve ever seen in supermarkets.
A tradition of values-based jurisprudence that is far ahead of anything Europe has, but suddenly deciding to try corruption for a bit—and then dominating that particular field again in no time flat.
It’s really quite impressive. I’m somewhat certain it causes Americans more pain than it is worth. But I’m not quite as firm on judging if the rest of the world isn’t sometimes getting a pretty good deal out it.
The article talks about federal gov not doing things better. Maybe it should,but the way america works is that these sorts of laws are left for individual states. America has a lot of problems like this,states should do better but voters don't really care much about state politics. I can tell you a majority of americans probably don't even know who their governor is(I think I do but not really sure). On top of that,it's not very hard to move a business between states or for people in general to move around so states have to compete with one another on being friendly to economic contributors.
I am sure it is much more complex, but I do think the root cause lies in the american constitution and the role played by federal and state governments. The federal gov should either be a whole lot more capable(or overreaching for some) or a whole lot less significant,forcing popular politics to be centered at the state level.
And did you know there are actually more billionaires-per-capita in Sweden than in the USA [1]? Norway as well. So it's actually possible to have both an amazing welfare system and loads of billionaires at the same time.
So again, each time you hear "high taxes and social welfare are bad because they hurt business" - its BS.
Tax is a country subscription fee. It can be high and worth it if the value provided is high (good work ethics and social trust, educated and healthy workforce, good infrastructure, clear law and business regulations).
The article acknowledges that tax rates are significantly higher in Sweden in order to pay for these benefits.
Has anyone modeled typical take home income (after taxes) over a lifetime vs the costs of procuring similar parental services in each country (daycare for example)?
My hypothesis would be that in the US, you’d probably still come out ahead in net income even after paying for these services. Could be wrong of course, but that’s my best guess.
If healthcare is any indicator I wouldn't be so sure. The US is consistently ranked at the bottom of most-efficient healthcare systems. You guys pay so much more per capita then any other nation on the planet [1]. So your taxes might be lower, but you still need to spend the money via other channels.
I come from Europe and moved to USA. After taxes and everything I get for my taxes back home, USA and EU are roughly the same in “things you have to pay for to have a normal life”
I'm happy to accept your hypothesis that US citizens will come out on top for lifetime net income, but this article was about the human costs, like having children or not.
What cost is forgoing having a family? Is that even calculated? My hypothesis is that it's not and all those people that simply weren't able to have a child because of work and healthcare costs are simply, and conveniently, ignored.
It's ok though, we can always import more fresh meat into the great American Dream.
Some study indicated American parents are extremely stressed out in comparison to most parents in most developed countries and are less happy overall because of it.
I'm not sure I could find the study again. It was posted on Metafilter some years ago. I'm banned from Metafilter and have zero plans to spend my time trying to dig through Metafilter to find it.
This thread is quite timely in that I just watched a great documentary about the differences between America and Sweden. If you have amazon prime it’s free to watch on prime video.
That's the result of having a country with a smaller population. This gives citizens more even access to quality education and more even access to all kinds of opportunities.
[+] [-] jdmoreira|6 years ago|reply
As far as I am concerned I can’t even imagine it being any other way. I understand how fortunate I am to be in Sweden. It truly is an amazing system.
[+] [-] vidarh|6 years ago|reply
I don't understand how people on more normal incomes do it in places like the UK and US.
[+] [-] martin_bech|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoreenMichele|6 years ago|reply
Obamacare wasn't really a good solution. It was just the most politically viable.
So you need more than a good plan for what works better. You also need to somehow get it accepted politically and that ends up being a sticking point.
[+] [-] ggambetta|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] praptak|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IAmEveryone|6 years ago|reply
And that goes through everything: people dying from deceases of despair, yet medical research is still top of the field.
Obese people on these scooters everywhere, but also a far larger number of people that are incredibly fit.
A fast food culture that as hedonistic and short-sighted as a late Roman dictator, but also the most elaborate selection of fresh organic vegetables I’ve ever seen in supermarkets.
A tradition of values-based jurisprudence that is far ahead of anything Europe has, but suddenly deciding to try corruption for a bit—and then dominating that particular field again in no time flat.
It’s really quite impressive. I’m somewhat certain it causes Americans more pain than it is worth. But I’m not quite as firm on judging if the rest of the world isn’t sometimes getting a pretty good deal out it.
[+] [-] rootusrootus|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] badrabbit|6 years ago|reply
I am sure it is much more complex, but I do think the root cause lies in the american constitution and the role played by federal and state governments. The federal gov should either be a whole lot more capable(or overreaching for some) or a whole lot less significant,forcing popular politics to be centered at the state level.
[+] [-] stanski|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] martin_bech|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jsjddbbwj|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kasperni|6 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-ranked-by-billiona...
[+] [-] stared|6 years ago|reply
(US 6th, UK 8th, Sweden 10th... and Denmark 4th)
So again, each time you hear "high taxes and social welfare are bad because they hurt business" - its BS. Tax is a country subscription fee. It can be high and worth it if the value provided is high (good work ethics and social trust, educated and healthy workforce, good infrastructure, clear law and business regulations).
[+] [-] alltakendamned|6 years ago|reply
I'd say there's less opportunities for social mobility in Sweden than in the US, hard to get beyond the "middle class"
[+] [-] dmd149|6 years ago|reply
Has anyone modeled typical take home income (after taxes) over a lifetime vs the costs of procuring similar parental services in each country (daycare for example)?
My hypothesis would be that in the US, you’d probably still come out ahead in net income even after paying for these services. Could be wrong of course, but that’s my best guess.
[+] [-] kasperni|6 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...
[+] [-] Swizec|6 years ago|reply
Except in Europe I’m not scared of getting sick.
[+] [-] OzzyB|6 years ago|reply
What cost is forgoing having a family? Is that even calculated? My hypothesis is that it's not and all those people that simply weren't able to have a child because of work and healthcare costs are simply, and conveniently, ignored.
It's ok though, we can always import more fresh meat into the great American Dream.
[+] [-] DoreenMichele|6 years ago|reply
I'm not sure I could find the study again. It was posted on Metafilter some years ago. I'm banned from Metafilter and have zero plans to spend my time trying to dig through Metafilter to find it.
[+] [-] quietthrow|6 years ago|reply
https://www.amazon.com/Sweden-Lessons-America-Johan-Norberg/...
[+] [-] cryptica|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] polotics|6 years ago|reply