I do China sourcing and have decent access to 3-ply surgical masks and limited access to N95 masks.
It's really hard to sell either of those to government bodies, even near cost. Already talked to the Red Cross, wholesale pharmacies and different ministries. They generally insist on payment on delivery, which we can't do for larger orders, as factories sell to whoever has the cash at the factory gate.
Some also want EU certifications (FFP2), while many factories in China only have the local Chinese standard (KN95). And some refuse to pay to a company outside Europa, while wanting to buy stuff from China.
So while I'd love to ship some of this stuff to Europe, currently people there are still blocking themselves. Hoping to work something out soon.
Can you email me? Can connect you to US hospitals in hotspots in California that are looking to buy. They’re currently not using PPE in all the situations they should be due to shortages.
You might not see this anymore, but in the hope: I'm [email protected] and am an elected government official in Southern California (in the United States) working with a nearby regional government, and have just learned that we are also interested in surgical masks (I had previously thought we were only interested in N95 masks). Are you also interested in shipping to the US?
I’m working on a fundraiser to help with Corona. Initially our idea was to donate straight to e.g. the WHO. What is the most efficient way to spend money right now?
Last I heard, my employer (large hospital in New York) is looking to buy. If you could reach out by email, I will pass it along to the relevant people. Thanks!
Let this be a lesson to learn for western democracies to not put all of their eggs in one basket. Diversification, localization and strategic globalization of the supply chain should be at the forefront of the issues to be discussed, ratified and acted upon after this pandemic is over. When one country manufactures 90% of world's goods (not accurate, to make a point), while the top 1% gets their bonuses for increasing profit margins, this is what we have. We've lost skills, we've lost our stance to manufacture things in our own homeland. It is depressing, deeply worrying and feels like the entire world has been gutted out by one country. Just to make it clear - think about this scenario - what would happen if one country made the food for the rest of the world? (Thankfully, we don't, but it can happen). What about pharmaceuticals? (Unfortunately, 90% of the world's generic drugs are made in Asia, primarily in India who in turn depends on China) [1].
Edit: I just realized that some of the startup and entrepreneurs around the world are on this forum, if you'd like to get into manufacturing, want to learn about more abstract concepts of manufacturing, I implore you to checkout: Manufacturing Planning and Control for Supply Chain Management reference book - https://books.google.com/books/about/Manufacturing_Planning_...
This book is absolute gold. Manufacturing is like playing this game Factorio (google it) but in real life. It is an exciting field ripe for innovation, many very hard problems and unlimited potential (and a lot of risk as well).
But can this be done without abandoning capitalism as a primary driving economic model? It would require a reversal in economic steering (tariffs, government intervention, etc) of enormous scale. The only thing that has come to matter is the hunt to squeeze every penny, we have forgotten to do anything else.
There is reason to believe that the hospital mask shortage is due in no small part to employee (and patient/family) theft of masks and not necessarily due to dramatically increased need at hospitals (at least not yet).
I say this as a resident physician at an urban hospital in the US. We're now severely low on N95 masks and moderately low on surgical masks but we have only had less than a dozen confirmed covid-19 cases (granted about 100 tested negative cases) so there's no way even 100 additional patients requiring masks suddenly plummeted our stockpiles of masks. Indeed, hospital administration noticed and sent out a mass email imploring employees to return unused masks in personal possession.
EMS provider in WA state - our current plan is "Assign N95 to provider. Use on calls as appropriate. If pt has flu-like symptoms/ upper respiratory/ etc, place mask in paper bag in warm space, write date. Re-use after two weeks (i.e. a safe time for virus to die)". Otherwise, re-use as needed. Disposal in case of blood/sputum/etc contamination, only.
Perhaps theft can explain the reduction, but isn't that equivalent to (for example) a leaky toilet destroying the room that the masks are in? In other words, perhaps it is still indicative a weakness in the hospital's supply chain that they can't make up for a sudden shortage of masks due to rare circumstances.
I'm honestly very conflicted now that you mention this. Yesterday some friends hit me up to donate to a gofundme page to support getting masks for a hospital a friend works at. It's a state university hospital with hundreds of millions in endowment in a red state.
It's easy to become jaded and cynical, but I'm beginning to believe this is the wake up call a lot of people need and anything less than an unmitigated disaster will be converted into a win to all these science denying, public health de-funding radicals running some governments.
It's probably the stress, anxiety and anger at the impotence caused by all this, but I can't help but feel a desire to lash out those people who have made things worse.
This. There are barely any covid 19 patients yet hospitals are low on masks due to panic. Beds are still open and ventilators contrary to media claims are not currently on a shortage.
Again severe failure on the govt’s part. Their inaction in when it was needed the most led to all these circumstances that makes it ripe for situations like these. As the number of infections spread and economic situation get worse these kind of things will get really really bad. Once the second and third order effects kick in it’s going to be a catastrophe. And our leaders answer to all of this is to give $1200 checks to people. All they care is about the economy as it gives them higher odds for their reelection. I don’t understand how such incompetence can be tolerated and why they are not fired and instead have to wait till next election.
I keep seeing articles like this pop up. During one of the first coronavirus press conferences, the White House invited CEOs from Walmart, Target, CVS, etc. – presumably to show strength of the private sector.
On the flip side, why can't we enlist money and resources from the private sector to quickly fix some of these supply issues? For example:
- Convert car factories to produce masks and ventilators.
- Convert construction companies to build makeshift hospitals. (Or use hotels.)
- Use tech companies to improve national information access with regards to CV19 testing and track and help patients using their software on their phones to help with contact tracing.
I realize that it's not as simple as pressing a button and instantly converting a factory that makes Teslas into one that makes masks. I also realize there are potential privacy concerns with nationalized information tracking.
But, we're about to enter an unprecedented public health crisis. We have resources that can lessen the impact if we just align and get behind this direction.
I can't help but think we could do more and not just wait for the shortage to happen, and for the curve to spike.
We stockpile enough nukes to basically destroy the whole Earth (exaggeration but you get the idea), but we can't stockpile some ventilators and face masks in case of a pandemic? You can't fight a pandemic with diplomacy. At least you can fight a foreign enemy with that.
Turns out N95 masks are quite high-tech, and even China is having trouble scaling up its production. They're made of a material, meltblown fabric, which only a limited number of factories are capable of producing.
You need the tools, but you don't have them. So you need the tools that make the tools. But you don't have those either. So you have two layers of tools you need to make from basic tools. Then you need supply chains for all the inputs. It's not as easy as waving a magic wand. But I do suspect that if we had started in January something could have been done.
> we're about to enter an unprecedented public health crisis.
this is where you lose me... it’s not unprecedented, quite the opposite. Throughout all human history this has been common. Recently (since WWII), we’ve been able to limit the lethality of most diseases and/or reduce transmissions.
But this should have been prepared for. They (the government) even had a playbook for it, they had evidence it could even be from this family of viruses.
This is a massive mistake by hundreds of our leaders.
> But in a subsequent tweet on Wednesday evening, Trump indicated that even though he invoked the act, he is in no rush to use it.
> "I only signed the Defense Production Act to combat the Chinese Virus should we need to invoke it in a worst- case scenario in the future," he said. "Hopefully there will be no need, but we are all in this TOGETHER!"
The ER docs at my wife’s hospital this morning were wearing pediatric masks with Disney characters emblazoned on them. And this is in a major suburban hospital.
The inability to just requisition, demand resource, mobilize people and so-forth, is breathtaking here. The start of WWII saw the quick re-purposing of industries for the war effort.
Today, it seems an inability to see what's necessary and get it to people is disturbing. The situation is effectively a war and one that's being fought very quickly.
I could brainstorm and mention the "fast fashion" is renown for creating conventional clothing to a variety of specifications, quickly. It seems like that talent could be harnessed for various kinds of safety equipment. Just an example, I'm sure there are a hundred similar things conceivable but despite the looming collapse of conventional procedures, somehow all bureaucratic hurdles remain in place.
The crazy thing to me is the government or hospitals haven’t issued a massive n95 drive to obtain more.
I have a few left over from a house project I did a while back. Kept one for myself, but happy to donate the other 4 I have. I’m sure if the request was actually made people would donate. Is it enough? No idea, but construction workers, painters, etc don’t need them right now.
I wonder what if there's a straightforward way to make facemasks by hand, or with tools that are generally available?
I'm imagining cutting apart a furnace filter and wrapping the fabric around a wire frame, or something like that. If someone were to develop a process that was simple and reliably repeatable and produced good quality effective masks, that could be a way for otherwise un-busy people to keep hospital staff supplied.
One issue I suppose is whether there are upstream bottlenecks, like not being able to get a reliable supply of the right kinds of filter material.
Chinese n95 masks are available very cheaply on Ali-Express from a variety of sellers who can ship by airmail. I don’t see why doctors/nurses shouldn’t order them personally if they can’t get them from work. For example: US $10.09 20％ Off | 10PCS Disposable KN95 Mask FFP2 Protective Mask Safety Masks 99％ Filtration for Dust Particulate Pollution N95 Protection
What does it take to build those masks from scratch?
We are at roughly 1 out of 100.000 being infected. Until 60% have developed immunity, there is still a long way to go where almost everybody on earth will want to own masks. The need of the hospitals is just the tip of the iceberg.
Is it possible to source the machines and materials now to be ready for production when the wave hits really hard?
Are there any reusable masks that are effective? It seems like throwing away these masks after a few hours of usage is partly to blame for the shortage. Generally damp materials are good at blocking particles better than dry ones. So is there any possibility of reusing the mask after washing in soap water?
>“The federal government’s not supposed to be out there buying vast amounts of items and then shipping,” Mr. Trump said. “You know, we’re not a shipping clerk.”
Hey, the guys not wrong, he's not a shipping clerk
Everyone in the hospitals from nurses to management knew exactly what is coming but did nothing.
And nothing has even happened yet, wait till the virus actually arrives in a few weeks.
Did any hospital plan or ask for help properly? Did any nurses union raise the issue?
Anyway they have numerous studies from Africa where they can't afford equipment, rather than the lack of planning by people on half a million a year, to look at.
[+] [-] m3nu|6 years ago|reply
It's really hard to sell either of those to government bodies, even near cost. Already talked to the Red Cross, wholesale pharmacies and different ministries. They generally insist on payment on delivery, which we can't do for larger orders, as factories sell to whoever has the cash at the factory gate.
Some also want EU certifications (FFP2), while many factories in China only have the local Chinese standard (KN95). And some refuse to pay to a company outside Europa, while wanting to buy stuff from China.
So while I'd love to ship some of this stuff to Europe, currently people there are still blocking themselves. Hoping to work something out soon.
[+] [-] immad|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RoboTeddy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saurik|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tehlike|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] c1sc0|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wux|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jk4930|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] systemvoltage|6 years ago|reply
[1] China is the world's largest raw materials exporter for Drugs: https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-opens-door-to-foreign-dru...
Edit: I just realized that some of the startup and entrepreneurs around the world are on this forum, if you'd like to get into manufacturing, want to learn about more abstract concepts of manufacturing, I implore you to checkout: Manufacturing Planning and Control for Supply Chain Management reference book - https://books.google.com/books/about/Manufacturing_Planning_... This book is absolute gold. Manufacturing is like playing this game Factorio (google it) but in real life. It is an exciting field ripe for innovation, many very hard problems and unlimited potential (and a lot of risk as well).
[+] [-] cycrutchfield|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oezi|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] outlace|6 years ago|reply
I say this as a resident physician at an urban hospital in the US. We're now severely low on N95 masks and moderately low on surgical masks but we have only had less than a dozen confirmed covid-19 cases (granted about 100 tested negative cases) so there's no way even 100 additional patients requiring masks suddenly plummeted our stockpiles of masks. Indeed, hospital administration noticed and sent out a mass email imploring employees to return unused masks in personal possession.
[+] [-] FireBeyond|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bograff|6 years ago|reply
https://www.phe.gov/about/sns/Pages/default.aspx
[+] [-] quadrifoliate|6 years ago|reply
Perhaps theft can explain the reduction, but isn't that equivalent to (for example) a leaky toilet destroying the room that the masks are in? In other words, perhaps it is still indicative a weakness in the hospital's supply chain that they can't make up for a sudden shortage of masks due to rare circumstances.
[+] [-] ebrenes|6 years ago|reply
It's easy to become jaded and cynical, but I'm beginning to believe this is the wake up call a lot of people need and anything less than an unmitigated disaster will be converted into a win to all these science denying, public health de-funding radicals running some governments.
It's probably the stress, anxiety and anger at the impotence caused by all this, but I can't help but feel a desire to lash out those people who have made things worse.
[+] [-] rhegart|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quietthrow|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoofusOfDeath|6 years ago|reply
If you live in a democracy, then you are part of the government. You can't just blame other people for this.
[+] [-] WalterBright|6 years ago|reply
Just imagine how bad it would be if we turned industry over to the government to run, too.
[+] [-] grej|6 years ago|reply
Because we still have laws, and elections. What do you want a military coup?
[+] [-] jeremydw|6 years ago|reply
On the flip side, why can't we enlist money and resources from the private sector to quickly fix some of these supply issues? For example:
- Convert car factories to produce masks and ventilators.
- Convert construction companies to build makeshift hospitals. (Or use hotels.)
- Use tech companies to improve national information access with regards to CV19 testing and track and help patients using their software on their phones to help with contact tracing.
I realize that it's not as simple as pressing a button and instantly converting a factory that makes Teslas into one that makes masks. I also realize there are potential privacy concerns with nationalized information tracking.
But, we're about to enter an unprecedented public health crisis. We have resources that can lessen the impact if we just align and get behind this direction.
I can't help but think we could do more and not just wait for the shortage to happen, and for the curve to spike.
We stockpile enough nukes to basically destroy the whole Earth (exaggeration but you get the idea), but we can't stockpile some ventilators and face masks in case of a pandemic? You can't fight a pandemic with diplomacy. At least you can fight a foreign enemy with that.
[+] [-] atomic_rabbit|6 years ago|reply
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/16/8149292...
[+] [-] asdfasgasdgasdg|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lettergram|6 years ago|reply
this is where you lose me... it’s not unprecedented, quite the opposite. Throughout all human history this has been common. Recently (since WWII), we’ve been able to limit the lethality of most diseases and/or reduce transmissions.
But this should have been prepared for. They (the government) even had a playbook for it, they had evidence it could even be from this family of viruses.
This is a massive mistake by hundreds of our leaders.
[+] [-] grej|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jumelles|6 years ago|reply
> But in a subsequent tweet on Wednesday evening, Trump indicated that even though he invoked the act, he is in no rush to use it.
> "I only signed the Defense Production Act to combat the Chinese Virus should we need to invoke it in a worst- case scenario in the future," he said. "Hopefully there will be no need, but we are all in this TOGETHER!"
[+] [-] jdkee|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joe_the_user|6 years ago|reply
Today, it seems an inability to see what's necessary and get it to people is disturbing. The situation is effectively a war and one that's being fought very quickly.
I could brainstorm and mention the "fast fashion" is renown for creating conventional clothing to a variety of specifications, quickly. It seems like that talent could be harnessed for various kinds of safety equipment. Just an example, I'm sure there are a hundred similar things conceivable but despite the looming collapse of conventional procedures, somehow all bureaucratic hurdles remain in place.
[+] [-] patrec|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbourke|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] neonate|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mjevans|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diabeetusman|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fma|6 years ago|reply
I saw someone else post this on HN... Worth a look. http://www.imcclinics.com/english/index.php/news/view?id=83
[+] [-] mjevans|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lettergram|6 years ago|reply
I have a few left over from a house project I did a while back. Kept one for myself, but happy to donate the other 4 I have. I’m sure if the request was actually made people would donate. Is it enough? No idea, but construction workers, painters, etc don’t need them right now.
People want to do something, let them.
[+] [-] viraptor|6 years ago|reply
There is a problem with issuing a request - not everyone will know about it. As you mentioned, you think there was no request. But there were multiple: here's one example https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/hospitals-are...
[+] [-] theslurmmustflo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elihu|6 years ago|reply
I'm imagining cutting apart a furnace filter and wrapping the fabric around a wire frame, or something like that. If someone were to develop a process that was simple and reliably repeatable and produced good quality effective masks, that could be a way for otherwise un-busy people to keep hospital staff supplied.
One issue I suppose is whether there are upstream bottlenecks, like not being able to get a reliable supply of the right kinds of filter material.
[+] [-] eigenvalue|6 years ago|reply
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dSIOgZ3
[+] [-] zachguo|6 years ago|reply
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-13/buffett-b...
[+] [-] toohotatopic|6 years ago|reply
We are at roughly 1 out of 100.000 being infected. Until 60% have developed immunity, there is still a long way to go where almost everybody on earth will want to own masks. The need of the hospitals is just the tip of the iceberg.
Is it possible to source the machines and materials now to be ready for production when the wave hits really hard?
[+] [-] innagadadavida|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uxcolumbo|6 years ago|reply
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/practice/homemade-personal-protect...
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ackbar03|6 years ago|reply
Hey, the guys not wrong, he's not a shipping clerk
[+] [-] mirimir|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaron695|6 years ago|reply
Everyone in the hospitals from nurses to management knew exactly what is coming but did nothing.
And nothing has even happened yet, wait till the virus actually arrives in a few weeks.
Did any hospital plan or ask for help properly? Did any nurses union raise the issue?
Anyway they have numerous studies from Africa where they can't afford equipment, rather than the lack of planning by people on half a million a year, to look at.