I understand the need to preserve masks and respirators for medical personnel, but did the talking point earlier really need to be they provide no benefit? It feels like now the population has been taught to not wear masks and it’ll be an uphill battle to reverse that.
Agreed. It's kind of fascinating that they said masks had "no benefit" but claimed that medical professionals had a dire need for masks.
Speculation here, but I think if everyone had worn face coverings (i.e. scarves or even masks) early on, we wouldn't have as many cases in the US today. Combined with social distancing, we could have even possibly flattened the curve.
My understanding that you need N95 mask to protect yourself.
To protect others from you however, you probably just need to make sure you don't spit, and don't touch your face. A cloth mask could help with both. Gloves may also help (having something on your hand can remind you not to touch your face).
Doctors & other exposed personnel need masks to protect themselves. The rest of us likely mostly need to protect them from us.
Not only taught to not wear masks but also taught to distrust what officials say. And we really didn’t need that when there are plenty of crackpot theories going around already (Coronavirus is a conspiracy, it’s triggered by 5G, vaccines are bad, etc)
I feel this was a really really bad move which will result in otherwise avoidable deaths from people arguing they shouldn’t do what officials say because they lied about such an important issue before.
People needed to be indoors and locked down before they could be told masks work and should be homemade. Coming out and saying they work and are critical to prevent spread would have resulted in videos much scarier than someone fighting an old woman for toilet paper.
> It feels like now the population has been taught to not wear masks and it’ll be an uphill battle to reverse that.
No masks is already the US status quo. In the same way propaganda told people not to buy them, they will be told to wear them and how to make them at home. It’s a pretty easy reversal when the message is demanded to be broadcast through all mediums.
It has been at least a week since that "earlier talking point" has been part of the public discourse enough to justify a meta-discourse about it. It's almost as though some people (or "people") are determined to keep banging that drum as long as it helps to sow division and undermine WHO/CDC. The focus among reasonable people is and mostly always was about how to ensure that high-quality masks and other PPE are available to those who are most at risk. How about if we focus on that?
The reality is most people would not correctly fit a n95, and an improperly fit n95 would only provide marginal benefit.
Even in article, we are talking cloth face masks. That will provide even less marginal protection to the wearer from contracting the virus. But it will reduce the spread from an infected person. The goal isn't to wear a mask to protect yourself, the goal is to not spread the virus as an asymptomatic carrier
It's not fruitful to worry about a hypothetical. I worry more about asking many Americans to do something they perceive as altruistic.
edit: it is rude to call something FUD if it isn't. I didn't say no benefit, I said marginal. And I think everyone greater risk in a general healthcare systemic collapse, which is what is on the table. If you weigh all the risks, until there are enough for all medical purposes they should go to medical wearers. Then it should be triaged by vulnerability. This seems really common sense. And obviously, a homemade cloth mask, scarf, or t-shirt when forced into a situation around other people is basic common sense, and I didn't feel the need to say it. That's why I'm talking about N95s, not masks, and certainly not cloth masks that are homemade.
edit: downvotes are frustrating. I am almost restating the article verbatim to correct misunderstandings in the comments here about what and why is being suggested.
However, on Wednesday, Dr Adams told Good Morning America that the CDC had been asked to review its guidelines on masks, because "we've learned there's a fair amount of asymptomatic spread" - although he stressed that medical masks should still be left to health care professionals who needed them most.
and
However, more and more health experts now say there are benefits.
They argue that the public use of masks can primarily help by preventing asymptomatic patients - people who have been infected with Covid-19 but are not aware, and not displaying any symptoms - from unknowingly spreading the virus to others.
edit: check out https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22752501 for resources that say indicate otherwise on mask wearing even benefiting the wearer. Don't be an antisocial asshole and buy or wear N95s and give them to healthcare workers, who face a much higher viral loads than you, until supply constraints are resolved.
If you go out into public you should be wearing a face mask, period.
You want 3 easy things a mask can help with?
1. Not being able to put your hands into your nose/mouth and remind you to not touch your face
2. Prevent the spread if you are asymptomatic but have it
3. Increase the chance you get a "low dose" even if you do get it (leading to a better outcome for you)
These things matter and will save lives. Even a cloth/homemade mask helps. The CDC lied when they said it didn't and they lied because they knew there weren't enough masks but in doing so they eroded public trust so when they finally do get around to asking people to wear a mask there will be those that won't now. Same way calling it "just the flu" continues to be parroted by people. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
The most effective thing you can do is to stay home. Wearing a mask might help, but it may not. There isn't a good study on it.
Medicine has a history of shoddy study design and outright quackery, so without a good RCT, medically trained professionals are loath to prescribe some behavior.
There are studies that show how bad people are at wearing masks.
As for masks effectiveness, it's complicated. They might help filter particles, or prevent the particles you exhale from going/staying airborne. But you may also touch your face more and in more dangerous ways when you're wearing a mask.
There's also a very real risk of moral hazard, but people (see above) don't know the relative risks of social behavior vs masks. If people feel safe b/c they're wearing a mask, that's also self-defeating.
Cloth doesn’t provide any protection for the wearer but “could” hold on to the wearer’s virus thus slowing the spread. Id say it’s embarassinng that we came to this but it can’t hurt though and may have some effect after all. I think the fashion industry will go into a weird direction, hijabs are the new thing
It does provide protection to the wearer, if everyone does it. If all the people around them are wearing them and one of those people is infected, the wearer is less likely to catch it.
Trying to fit it into a altruistic or selfish category is a false dichotomy. The same for obeying stay at home orders. Just because a benefit is indirect (herd immunity benefit of universal vaccination, reducing r0 in a population from behavioral changes) doesn't mean it's not a benefit.
The maker response in Baltimore includes hand sewn (and washable) face masks, https://www.flattenthecurvebaltimore.com/shop. I’ve been 3D printing face shield parts for the same effort.
[+] [-] yibg|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] applecrazy|6 years ago|reply
Speculation here, but I think if everyone had worn face coverings (i.e. scarves or even masks) early on, we wouldn't have as many cases in the US today. Combined with social distancing, we could have even possibly flattened the curve.
edits: grammar
[+] [-] loup-vaillant|6 years ago|reply
To protect others from you however, you probably just need to make sure you don't spit, and don't touch your face. A cloth mask could help with both. Gloves may also help (having something on your hand can remind you not to touch your face).
Doctors & other exposed personnel need masks to protect themselves. The rest of us likely mostly need to protect them from us.
(Totally not a doctor, citation needed.)
[+] [-] ornornor|6 years ago|reply
I feel this was a really really bad move which will result in otherwise avoidable deaths from people arguing they shouldn’t do what officials say because they lied about such an important issue before.
[+] [-] marnett|6 years ago|reply
> It feels like now the population has been taught to not wear masks and it’ll be an uphill battle to reverse that.
No masks is already the US status quo. In the same way propaganda told people not to buy them, they will be told to wear them and how to make them at home. It’s a pretty easy reversal when the message is demanded to be broadcast through all mediums.
[+] [-] notacoward|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gameswithgo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway5752|6 years ago|reply
Even in article, we are talking cloth face masks. That will provide even less marginal protection to the wearer from contracting the virus. But it will reduce the spread from an infected person. The goal isn't to wear a mask to protect yourself, the goal is to not spread the virus as an asymptomatic carrier
It's not fruitful to worry about a hypothetical. I worry more about asking many Americans to do something they perceive as altruistic.
edit: it is rude to call something FUD if it isn't. I didn't say no benefit, I said marginal. And I think everyone greater risk in a general healthcare systemic collapse, which is what is on the table. If you weigh all the risks, until there are enough for all medical purposes they should go to medical wearers. Then it should be triaged by vulnerability. This seems really common sense. And obviously, a homemade cloth mask, scarf, or t-shirt when forced into a situation around other people is basic common sense, and I didn't feel the need to say it. That's why I'm talking about N95s, not masks, and certainly not cloth masks that are homemade.
edit: downvotes are frustrating. I am almost restating the article verbatim to correct misunderstandings in the comments here about what and why is being suggested.
However, on Wednesday, Dr Adams told Good Morning America that the CDC had been asked to review its guidelines on masks, because "we've learned there's a fair amount of asymptomatic spread" - although he stressed that medical masks should still be left to health care professionals who needed them most.
and
However, more and more health experts now say there are benefits.
They argue that the public use of masks can primarily help by preventing asymptomatic patients - people who have been infected with Covid-19 but are not aware, and not displaying any symptoms - from unknowingly spreading the virus to others.
edit: check out https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22752501 for resources that say indicate otherwise on mask wearing even benefiting the wearer. Don't be an antisocial asshole and buy or wear N95s and give them to healthcare workers, who face a much higher viral loads than you, until supply constraints are resolved.
[+] [-] chiefalchemist|6 years ago|reply
If the CDC said to drink your own pee, the majority of ppl wouldn't hesitate.
[+] [-] joshstrange|6 years ago|reply
You want 3 easy things a mask can help with?
1. Not being able to put your hands into your nose/mouth and remind you to not touch your face
2. Prevent the spread if you are asymptomatic but have it
3. Increase the chance you get a "low dose" even if you do get it (leading to a better outcome for you)
These things matter and will save lives. Even a cloth/homemade mask helps. The CDC lied when they said it didn't and they lied because they knew there weren't enough masks but in doing so they eroded public trust so when they finally do get around to asking people to wear a mask there will be those that won't now. Same way calling it "just the flu" continues to be parroted by people. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
[+] [-] MengerSponge|6 years ago|reply
Medicine has a history of shoddy study design and outright quackery, so without a good RCT, medically trained professionals are loath to prescribe some behavior.
There are studies that show how bad people are at wearing masks.
As for masks effectiveness, it's complicated. They might help filter particles, or prevent the particles you exhale from going/staying airborne. But you may also touch your face more and in more dangerous ways when you're wearing a mask.
There's also a very real risk of moral hazard, but people (see above) don't know the relative risks of social behavior vs masks. If people feel safe b/c they're wearing a mask, that's also self-defeating.
[+] [-] Endlessly|6 years ago|reply
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22648603
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] onemoresoop|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oski|6 years ago|reply
I've made this "single-serving site" to share with friends and family who aren't convinced yet: https://shouldiwearafacemask.com/
[+] [-] throwaway5752|6 years ago|reply
Trying to fit it into a altruistic or selfish category is a false dichotomy. The same for obeying stay at home orders. Just because a benefit is indirect (herd immunity benefit of universal vaccination, reducing r0 in a population from behavioral changes) doesn't mean it's not a benefit.
[+] [-] eppp|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] java-man|6 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa
[+] [-] brianzelip|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ykevinator|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] doggodad|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] aparadja|6 years ago|reply