I haven't bought from Amazon in about three years. And I'm ordering online quite a lot. Only this month: a bike (boc24.de), bike equipment (nanobike.de), several books (booklooker.de, medimops.de, thalia.de, hugendubel.de), a Whisky (mcgin.de), a pizza stone (otto.de), USB microskope (digitalo.de) ...
No problem or hassle whatsoever. I just find a shop (usually idealo), then I order - done.
It's so simple, there's not much to write about - lest a guide.
> You can often cut out the middleman if you are buying electronics. For computers, phones and TVs, Dell, Apple and Samsung are all offering free delivery on their products
That's why the guide goes beyond its purported goal and tries to avoid other shops as well?
> Environmentally friendly cleaning products, pet food and baby gear are available at Ethicalsupermarket.com. Standard delivery in the UK is free on orders over £50, or £3.95 on smaller orders.
Then specific shops and information about shipping?
Whatever - useless text. Just order somewhere else. It's that easy. (at least in Germany) (yes, I hate Amazon - yes, I make a living with AWS)
I do think you are missing out on how well Amazon has handled the online purchasing. Not discussing their ethics, just the service of interacting with them.
I make a purchase and it normally shows up the next day. That's unreal (I'm near a distribution center, so that's not the normal 2 days stateside).
I need to make a return, I just click a button and bring the open box and item to any UPS store (there are 3 within 3 miles). They will package it for me and ship it. I just show them the UPC code on my phone with a ripped open box and an item.
They have a good system. This may be US only, but it's easy to understand why they are so popular.
I have separated myself from Google for privacy reasons (except a few things...) and try to avoid Amazon where I can and support local shops. So this isn't advocating Amazon, just pointing out that their competitors usually can't compete on returns and shipping time.
thalia is running a lot of dodgy business practices focused on strong-arming smaller print-shops (see German Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalia_B%C3%BCcher#Kritik), I'm really fond of zvab.com where you can order from many if not most antiquarian bookshops of Europe. Cheap used books abound for 2-5 euros per book, a lot of them with free shipping depending on the shop.
EDIT: TIL: zvab is abebooks, which in turn is a subsidiary of... amazon. All roads lead to Rome.
Germany is, I think, fairly exceptional in this case.
Living in Ireland, Irish stores can be very hit and miss. Amazon UK is often faster, very often cheaper, has cheaper shipping (even though it's coming from UK), has cheaper returns (returns through the post in Ireland are extortionate)
I'd honestly say in some ways its gotten worst over the years, probably from competition from UK retailers. If you are buying in big quantities, it's best to go with a big company, and they aren't in Ireland. If you are ordering small quantities, that's not enough to keep a company afloat.
It's so bad, when it comes to Electronics, Pet supplies or similar, it's often best to do exactly what you do, and order from Germany and deal with the language barrier and lack of credit card support.
Brexit will be interesting, but I see Amazon had announced in the last few days it's opening distribution centers in Ireland, so i guess it's inevitable that things are going that way.
Ordering from Apple or Samsung directly, as suggested by the article, even is something to avoid, unless you like paying a premium (usually you can find their products about 10-30% cheaper somewhere else).
I completely agree. I don't understand why people use amazon so much. Generally I find them more expensive and for many things they only have inferior products and much less selection (not even speaking of finding the right things).
I know the German market is not relevant for most HN readers. But please don't recommend thalia.de, there are enough other options. thalia not only has unorthodox business practices:
https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/a-709746.html
I used to live in Germany and now I moved back to India (where I am came from)
Amazon atleast in India is better than anything else.
It's very difficult to source things which are not common place goods.
For example, if I want to buy 3 phase, 1 horsepower motor, 4 pole motor AC induction motor. There would be no websites who directly sell, and if exists then it will charge rediculous price.
Most B2B purchase in India requires going through IndiaMart, where you post requirement (that too can't upload photo, has very small description limit)
Then vendors will hammer your phone with useless calls, asking the details you already offered and no one really replies to text. They don't understand not everyone wants to be on call.
There are rediculous number of vendors who import from China and live around a port city and have goods stocked in their wharehouse, shipping all over India. And they lie about being manufacturer, I am pretty sure they aren't even inserting a bolt in the final product.
And either companies are too big where they don't care about a guy who wants 1 motor, or they are too small that they don't even know how to sell online.
Amazon expanded the available products which can be bought without BS at competitive rates but it too missed niche category stuff.
For example, I can't buy lithium iron phosphate battery online at the moment, few websites appear in Google but they ask you to contact them.
I assume you're German? I'm in Northern Europe and most products I order online come through German retailers: music equipment, clothes, outdoor stuff, bike parts, ... I guess Germany has a large enough economy to support larger retailers, and those retailers put in some effort to attract customers beyond their borders. I think the problems with e-retail in Europe have been traditionally of a practical nature, such as dealing with multiple languages and handling delivery/returns across borders.
I very sporadically order from Amazon if I can't find what I'm looking for elsewhere, but their website has been so infested with spam and sponsored results that it's hard to find a genuine product these days.
I'm using Amazon.de as an interface for VAT excluded purchases. Many smaller shops have better prices but don't want to deal with the extra paperwork to sell without VAT to businesses outside the country. However it doesn't work for items sold by Amazon itself as they will ship it from the nearest distribution center (it needs to cross the border to be VAT free in my case).
For bike equipement, both bike24.com and bike-component.de both are great! Good selection, great customer service and fast shipping, even now.. Amazon can't compete with that.
In general German eshop are the best (shopping from France).
Stores often sell cheaper on Amazon than on their own storefront. The 15€ ball I ordered on Amazon would have been 20€ if bought directly from the sellers website.
I tried shopping Newegg recently (BC). Newegg's online customer service made Amazon's look positively erudite, and in addition Newegg's return policy is terrible by comparison. I still haven't received an item that I ordered 7 weeks ago (shipping was not advertised as being particularly slow), and I still haven't been refunded for another item that I returned 2 weeks ago. Amazon gets that if you can't touch the item in store, there should be a no-fault return policy (and yes, I know that returns are environmentally unfriendly, etc).
I tried to shop Jet (before they were acquired) and I found the search / shop experience had too much friction. Amazon's UI has plenty of annoyances, but they've made it _real_ easy to get something into your cart and check out.
On the other hand, all of my music studio purchases I make at Sweetwater. Great customer service, free shipping, will price match if you ask, and frictionless returns.
IMO Amazon is vulnerable to good competitors, but the emphasis is on good. I can tolerate a small shipping fee, and I don't need next day or two day shipping (although it's nice). On the other hand if you make it hard for me to shop, customer service sucks, or I have to jump through hoops to return something, I'll go back to Amazon.
Sweetwater has never let me down in 20 years. It’s been quite sometime since I’ve used Crutchfield but I’ve always had a very high opinion of their customer service as well.
Had a very poor experience ordering from Ikea. Just some kitchen towels, nothing particularly interesting. Took six weeks to ship, zero updates on the site about order status, estimated delivery date came and went unceremoniously, wasn’t able to contact anyone via phone. Finally got an email out of the blue that they shipped and arrived intact the next day. Pretty much a ‘never again’ experience.
Amazon’s policies and employee treatment/relationships may need improvement or complete overhaul, but their execution at getting matter into your hands and dealing with issues is, in my experience, second to none.
Did you order Newegg or third-party? So many stores, Newegg included, are trying to be a 'platform' or something and allow third party sellers, but it makes the buying experience awful.
Arguably the worst things about buying from Amazon all derive from third-party sellers: long shipping times (from China, generally), commingled inventory, counterfeit products, faked/swapped listings... Companies like Newegg should be explicitly doing the opposite as a competitive advantage -- yet they seem to be copying. I don't get it.
If you want your mom n' pop shops to survive this thing consider them first. You'd be surprised how many are probably doing deliveries.
It's awfully low tech, but the local indie book shop here in Vancouver will order any book you ask for and deliver it throughout Metro Vancouver. All you need to do is call them and ask.
Wish my local government thinks of this. My wife and I run a after school tutoring center franchise. We converted to online.
Our county decides to sign a contract w/ a national company that provides private tutoring strictly online.
I wouldn't have cared if they used a competitor that has a presence in the county. Or they sign up w/ several franchises with local presence. But this is taking our tax dollars to pay for jobs in other areas.
Many families have quit because they lost their jobs. All of us have converted online one way or another...and trying to survive based on who has been retained. But this was like a kick in the nuts.
I bought a pfSense-style router recently, and a Pi 4B, both from small shops (one Swedish[1], one French[2]). They shipped within 24h. These people are hard at work, and they deserve all the credit they can get.
In particular, the Swedish one had a very nice knowledge base on their products (they select / assemble parts themselves, cost is as low as it gets, I value the work they do since it's saving me time and hassle).
Is that Pulp Fiction? I've been thinking today about the places I most want to be around at the end of this. They made the list, I don't really need a book right now but I think I'll get one anyway.
It’s a nice touch by The Guardian to write this article but given how much Amazon has benefited from this epidemic, I do not think any kind of individual vigilantism will really work here. You’re not even a drop in the bucket for them and most people do not care.
If anything, thanks to them being a go-to platform, they’ve single handedly allowed a lot of third party shops to sell their inventory, and have come out net positive as a result. I don’t mean to sound as an apologist saying this - just stating the bloody obvious.
The “vote with your wallet” rhetoric doesn’t work. It’s half past feel good bullshit. If you want these companies to change it must be codified into the law and backed up by hard time.
But good luck with that, since China is a massive trade partner and every country is turning a blind eye to them imprisoning people in concentration camps and harvesting organs. It’s unlikely The States are going to have a change of heart anytime soon.
I think it's feel good bullshit in part because the entire narrative is bullshit, driven by an anti-tech media stance that is not actually well represented in the real world.
Most people are happy with Amazon and like the service they provide - this kind of thing is a non-story.
I say this as someone who buys directly from suppliers like Dell or Logitech when I think there's a risk to getting repackaged or counterfeit items from Amazon, but the experience is often worse (Dell monitors took 5 weeks to arrive).
I think these articles are a symptom of something else, but I'm not quite sure what it is. It feels like a political or tribal position, anti-large company, or anti-success? - I'm not quite sure, but I think there's an underlying theme that drives these types of articles and it isn't what they're directly about. They're okay with a small under-dog company story, but if you become large and successful then you're automatically written about in the most uncharitable way possible.
Where you inconvenience yourself for some time to line up in a booth to select someone who you more likely just hated less.
Now imagine doing that all day every day, the inconveniences each time might be smaller, but hey, Amazon is always there. The 'voter turnout' is going to drop to 0 real fast.
There's a growing sense that we ("the free world", western countries + usual friends like Japan, Oz, etc) are about to enter a cold war with China, though, following the COVID-19 debacle.[1] The CPC's ultimate responsibility will likely define the magnitude of that (which may range from mild such as tariffs, to hard e.g. Soviet era, passing by sanctions of various degrees, forbidding companies to even trade let alone joint-venture in China, etc).
Independently of diplomacy, the particular conditions of a pandemic seem to call for less dependence on foreign powers, at least on a continental basis (some capacity for autarky on a temporary basis).
Independently of the above, history shows that out of the 16 last times there was a shift in world's first GDP (here US → China), no less than 12 led to war.[2]
Again independently, the general sentiment towards China has deteriorated faster than ever in 2019 (before crisis), due to the White House posture notably (trade tensions, mutual racism/xenophobia).[3][4] This went even lower recently.[5]
A key factor notably, in my opinion, is that anti-China sentiment used to be correlated with age: people over 50 were more likely to have such a view, while younger categories held a more favorable view; but recent events are likely to sway the opinion across the board. Anyone old enough to have a political opinion isn't likely to "forget" COVID-19 or "forgive" wrongdoings in the matter if responsibility is proven in the public eye.
There is little substance to redeem any of these facts, I'm afraid.
____
A personal take on this [Disclaimer: opinion still in flux as information comes in. Strong conviction, but loosely held.]
I don't see how China doesn't lose most of their international credibility in this affair. Once global production and logistics flows are restructured to take China out of the equation (it'll take years, a decade at least I think), it will take an even longer time to come back, if ever (other superpowers, more worthy of trust, may emerge in a generation's time). It will cost the world a lot, may prolong the depression much more than if we looked the other way, but deaths in the 6 figures (possibly an order of magnitude more by then, even two...) is simply unacceptable, reason enough to do it, to isolate them and take the collective hit. We can take it, the combined power of the world minus China is still overwhelmingly capable to drive growth. There are tons of candidates where investment will flock to fund factories, and some of these will come back 'home' for a number of strategic sectors.
I'm afraid China's economic appeal has all but collapsed for this generation (next 10-20 years). I don't think most people realize it yet, but the pile of arguments for a cold war is damning, historically aligned with most precedents, and actually a rare occurrence of too much at once.
(Let us pray there was no malign intent towards the world, for that would likely remove the "cold" adjective above.)
China may just have lost its shot at becoming the world's "leader", and it seems they only have themselves to blame, as their lack of transparency and their negligence for human life are cold hard choices they still keep making, some 30 years after Tiananmen. We hoped China was ready and could change, we thought it would evolve towards a more trustable partner, but instead it maintained its internal dystopia more strongly than ever, and actually engaged actively in trying to change us (remember how, very recently, they were trying to force the NBA and so many corporations to essentially bend to the CPC's propaganda... needless to say, that ship has most likely sailed for good). If we needed a reminder (apparently we did), authoritarianism kills.
So this:
> But good luck with that, since China is a massive trade partner and every country is turning a blind eye to them imprisoning people in concentration camps and harvesting organs. It’s unlikely The States are going to have a change of heart anytime soon.
Seems incredibly anachronic to me. It was true in 2019, but that world is now over, for good.
Given how much Bezos has added to his personal net worth during the pandemic ($24B [1]), perhaps its time for governments to expect better treatment for Amazon employees... or else. Charges of pandemic profiteering could be convincingly brought to bear.
Been buying a lot of stuff on eBay. On the app, you can filter by Guaranteed Delivery 1 to 4 days. If it doesn't make it by the guaranteed date, you get a $5 credit to your eBay account. It's also frequently cheaper for new stuff. For example, water bottles and bluetooth adapters.
Problem is that return policy for Amazon is excellent, but completely nonexistent or cumbersome with other suppliers. That in itself is pretty much a deal breaker for competitors.
I feel like there's a lack of good price comparison websites in US and Canada. I'm used to e.g. PriceSpy which compares thousands of stores. Just as an example showing 42 different stores selling this particular SSD https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/storage-media/h...
Whenever I search for something like that for US/Canada I end up on a site that indexes Amazon/ebay with affiliate links.
In the book "The Everything Store," Jeff Bezos mentions that the public tends to hate companies as they get bigger and that managing the company's image is very important.
All politics aside, I find it very interesting that this seems to be a law that people just think companies are evil when they are big.
Whilst I'm not sure it's healthy to have one company so dominant, and whilst Amazon's product range is not perfect:
1. In terms of logistics it seems to me they handed every other logistic company's arse to them - even those that have been running for hundreds of years and thus which you might hope to have some expertise in the field, and conversely even the newer companies which you might hope are relatively unburdened by inertia etc. Prime is awesome.
2. At the risk of sounding heartless, I don't care about all the struggling small competitors. Times and industries change, and Amazon's approach is simply more efficient. Does it really benefit society to have x thousands of people running their own e-commerce business rather than finding something else to do? Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support manual weavers? Or supporting buggy whip manufacturers by taxing car makers? Where do we draw the line?
3. I don't care about the tax avoidance etc. I'd rather see Bezos spend the money on rocketry than have governments wasting yet more on handouts. The former will probably benefit humanity more in the end.
4. Price. If Amazon weren't almost always equal or very slightly above competitors I wouldn't use it. But it is. Why should I pay more? To support ye olde historical e-commerce shoppe?
This article is very focused on the UK but its still possible to try and avoid supporting Amazon if you are willing to pay for shipping or use alternative outlets like EBay although many of those selling on that platform still use Amazon for fulfillment.
I have done most of my pandemic shopping on Amazon, but have had luck with 4/5 externally run sites, most of which are on shopify. In the first 3 weeks after the first shelter in place orders, Amazon was about a week slower than the rest. Now it switched, and it seems Amazon is faster again. However I am now regularly doing business with a few other sites that have products Amazon doesn't.
In Germany: go to Amazon.de, search for the product. Check if it’s available from third party sellers. Copy the seller’s name, google for their online shop. If they have one, buy direct. Bit clunky but pretty often cheaper.
I haven't bought anything from Amazon for about 5 years, because I moved, but I really feel uncomfortable about Amazon bashing. I think Amazon has done a huge favor for online stores. I think AWS is incredible service that powers a lot of great online services. You absolutely should criticize Amazon for poor labor practices and you are free to avoid buying from them on ethical grounds. But I think it the end you might hurt more people you are trying to protect. We all love to have our favorite evils. Facebook yesterday, Amazon today, Microsoft ten years ago. But the history teaches us that the only effective way to limit monopolies and stop them from abusing their powers is strong government actions. Boycotts don't work.
[+] [-] rv-de|5 years ago|reply
No problem or hassle whatsoever. I just find a shop (usually idealo), then I order - done.
It's so simple, there's not much to write about - lest a guide.
> You can often cut out the middleman if you are buying electronics. For computers, phones and TVs, Dell, Apple and Samsung are all offering free delivery on their products
That's why the guide goes beyond its purported goal and tries to avoid other shops as well?
> Environmentally friendly cleaning products, pet food and baby gear are available at Ethicalsupermarket.com. Standard delivery in the UK is free on orders over £50, or £3.95 on smaller orders.
Then specific shops and information about shipping?
Whatever - useless text. Just order somewhere else. It's that easy. (at least in Germany) (yes, I hate Amazon - yes, I make a living with AWS)
---
Special love goes to:
- booklooker.de
- medimops.de
- notebookgalerie.de
- thalia.de
- mcgin.de
[+] [-] Diesel555|5 years ago|reply
I make a purchase and it normally shows up the next day. That's unreal (I'm near a distribution center, so that's not the normal 2 days stateside).
I need to make a return, I just click a button and bring the open box and item to any UPS store (there are 3 within 3 miles). They will package it for me and ship it. I just show them the UPC code on my phone with a ripped open box and an item.
They have a good system. This may be US only, but it's easy to understand why they are so popular.
I have separated myself from Google for privacy reasons (except a few things...) and try to avoid Amazon where I can and support local shops. So this isn't advocating Amazon, just pointing out that their competitors usually can't compete on returns and shipping time.
[+] [-] a_bonobo|5 years ago|reply
EDIT: TIL: zvab is abebooks, which in turn is a subsidiary of... amazon. All roads lead to Rome.
[+] [-] Plasmoid2000ad|5 years ago|reply
Living in Ireland, Irish stores can be very hit and miss. Amazon UK is often faster, very often cheaper, has cheaper shipping (even though it's coming from UK), has cheaper returns (returns through the post in Ireland are extortionate)
I'd honestly say in some ways its gotten worst over the years, probably from competition from UK retailers. If you are buying in big quantities, it's best to go with a big company, and they aren't in Ireland. If you are ordering small quantities, that's not enough to keep a company afloat.
It's so bad, when it comes to Electronics, Pet supplies or similar, it's often best to do exactly what you do, and order from Germany and deal with the language barrier and lack of credit card support.
Brexit will be interesting, but I see Amazon had announced in the last few days it's opening distribution centers in Ireland, so i guess it's inevitable that things are going that way.
[+] [-] augstein|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ex3ndr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cycomanic|5 years ago|reply
Some other ones which are excellent:
Bike24.de Alternate.de Bikester.se
[+] [-] joyj2nd|5 years ago|reply
but they also boycott books they don't like: https://philosophia-perennis.com/2017/09/12/buchhandel-boyko...
In my opinion a book shop should not do this.
[+] [-] econcon|5 years ago|reply
Amazon atleast in India is better than anything else.
It's very difficult to source things which are not common place goods.
For example, if I want to buy 3 phase, 1 horsepower motor, 4 pole motor AC induction motor. There would be no websites who directly sell, and if exists then it will charge rediculous price.
Most B2B purchase in India requires going through IndiaMart, where you post requirement (that too can't upload photo, has very small description limit)
Then vendors will hammer your phone with useless calls, asking the details you already offered and no one really replies to text. They don't understand not everyone wants to be on call.
There are rediculous number of vendors who import from China and live around a port city and have goods stocked in their wharehouse, shipping all over India. And they lie about being manufacturer, I am pretty sure they aren't even inserting a bolt in the final product.
And either companies are too big where they don't care about a guy who wants 1 motor, or they are too small that they don't even know how to sell online.
Amazon expanded the available products which can be bought without BS at competitive rates but it too missed niche category stuff.
For example, I can't buy lithium iron phosphate battery online at the moment, few websites appear in Google but they ask you to contact them.
[+] [-] wvh|5 years ago|reply
I very sporadically order from Amazon if I can't find what I'm looking for elsewhere, but their website has been so infested with spam and sponsored results that it's hard to find a genuine product these days.
[+] [-] literallycancer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BeniBoy|5 years ago|reply
In general German eshop are the best (shopping from France).
[+] [-] nielsole|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flavor8|5 years ago|reply
I tried to shop Jet (before they were acquired) and I found the search / shop experience had too much friction. Amazon's UI has plenty of annoyances, but they've made it _real_ easy to get something into your cart and check out.
On the other hand, all of my music studio purchases I make at Sweetwater. Great customer service, free shipping, will price match if you ask, and frictionless returns.
IMO Amazon is vulnerable to good competitors, but the emphasis is on good. I can tolerate a small shipping fee, and I don't need next day or two day shipping (although it's nice). On the other hand if you make it hard for me to shop, customer service sucks, or I have to jump through hoops to return something, I'll go back to Amazon.
[+] [-] jcims|5 years ago|reply
Had a very poor experience ordering from Ikea. Just some kitchen towels, nothing particularly interesting. Took six weeks to ship, zero updates on the site about order status, estimated delivery date came and went unceremoniously, wasn’t able to contact anyone via phone. Finally got an email out of the blue that they shipped and arrived intact the next day. Pretty much a ‘never again’ experience.
Amazon’s policies and employee treatment/relationships may need improvement or complete overhaul, but their execution at getting matter into your hands and dealing with issues is, in my experience, second to none.
[+] [-] gregmac|5 years ago|reply
Arguably the worst things about buying from Amazon all derive from third-party sellers: long shipping times (from China, generally), commingled inventory, counterfeit products, faked/swapped listings... Companies like Newegg should be explicitly doing the opposite as a competitive advantage -- yet they seem to be copying. I don't get it.
[+] [-] pscoutou|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thathndude|5 years ago|reply
I think we’ve started to acclimate to how good it is that we forget the old world.
[+] [-] decasteve|5 years ago|reply
Recording gear: Long & McQuade.
Tools: Lee Valley.
Photo gear: Henry's.
Amazon provides a way for me to avoid Walmart.
[+] [-] Tiktaalik|5 years ago|reply
It's awfully low tech, but the local indie book shop here in Vancouver will order any book you ask for and deliver it throughout Metro Vancouver. All you need to do is call them and ask.
[+] [-] fma|5 years ago|reply
Many families have quit because they lost their jobs. All of us have converted online one way or another...and trying to survive based on who has been retained. But this was like a kick in the nuts.
[+] [-] justicezyx|5 years ago|reply
We all know how frustrating and time-wasting it can be, when calling for professional service...
In the end, it's still a tech problem.
Amazon has the tech, and the customer base to form a virtuous cycle.
The smaller shop dont have that.
We need more Shopify like supplier, with varying degrees of sophistication and targeted customer groups.
[+] [-] K0SM0S|5 years ago|reply
I bought a pfSense-style router recently, and a Pi 4B, both from small shops (one Swedish[1], one French[2]). They shipped within 24h. These people are hard at work, and they deserve all the credit they can get.
In particular, the Swedish one had a very nice knowledge base on their products (they select / assemble parts themselves, cost is as low as it gets, I value the work they do since it's saving me time and hassle).
___
[1]: https://teklager.se/en/
[2]: https://www.kubii.fr/ (sadly, language is Fr-Es-It only, but I guess we've got Google Trad for that)
[+] [-] coopsmgoops|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gjs278|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] troughway|5 years ago|reply
If anything, thanks to them being a go-to platform, they’ve single handedly allowed a lot of third party shops to sell their inventory, and have come out net positive as a result. I don’t mean to sound as an apologist saying this - just stating the bloody obvious.
The “vote with your wallet” rhetoric doesn’t work. It’s half past feel good bullshit. If you want these companies to change it must be codified into the law and backed up by hard time.
But good luck with that, since China is a massive trade partner and every country is turning a blind eye to them imprisoning people in concentration camps and harvesting organs. It’s unlikely The States are going to have a change of heart anytime soon.
[+] [-] gonehome|5 years ago|reply
Most people are happy with Amazon and like the service they provide - this kind of thing is a non-story.
I say this as someone who buys directly from suppliers like Dell or Logitech when I think there's a risk to getting repackaged or counterfeit items from Amazon, but the experience is often worse (Dell monitors took 5 weeks to arrive).
I think these articles are a symptom of something else, but I'm not quite sure what it is. It feels like a political or tribal position, anti-large company, or anti-success? - I'm not quite sure, but I think there's an underlying theme that drives these types of articles and it isn't what they're directly about. They're okay with a small under-dog company story, but if you become large and successful then you're automatically written about in the most uncharitable way possible.
[+] [-] baby_wipe|5 years ago|reply
It's important to also recognize how individuals and families have benefited from Amazon during this time, including myself.
[+] [-] Aperocky|5 years ago|reply
Where you inconvenience yourself for some time to line up in a booth to select someone who you more likely just hated less.
Now imagine doing that all day every day, the inconveniences each time might be smaller, but hey, Amazon is always there. The 'voter turnout' is going to drop to 0 real fast.
[+] [-] third_I|5 years ago|reply
There's a growing sense that we ("the free world", western countries + usual friends like Japan, Oz, etc) are about to enter a cold war with China, though, following the COVID-19 debacle.[1] The CPC's ultimate responsibility will likely define the magnitude of that (which may range from mild such as tariffs, to hard e.g. Soviet era, passing by sanctions of various degrees, forbidding companies to even trade let alone joint-venture in China, etc).
Independently of diplomacy, the particular conditions of a pandemic seem to call for less dependence on foreign powers, at least on a continental basis (some capacity for autarky on a temporary basis).
Independently of the above, history shows that out of the 16 last times there was a shift in world's first GDP (here US → China), no less than 12 led to war.[2]
Again independently, the general sentiment towards China has deteriorated faster than ever in 2019 (before crisis), due to the White House posture notably (trade tensions, mutual racism/xenophobia).[3][4] This went even lower recently.[5]
A key factor notably, in my opinion, is that anti-China sentiment used to be correlated with age: people over 50 were more likely to have such a view, while younger categories held a more favorable view; but recent events are likely to sway the opinion across the board. Anyone old enough to have a political opinion isn't likely to "forget" COVID-19 or "forgive" wrongdoings in the matter if responsibility is proven in the public eye.
There is little substance to redeem any of these facts, I'm afraid.
____
A personal take on this [Disclaimer: opinion still in flux as information comes in. Strong conviction, but loosely held.]
I don't see how China doesn't lose most of their international credibility in this affair. Once global production and logistics flows are restructured to take China out of the equation (it'll take years, a decade at least I think), it will take an even longer time to come back, if ever (other superpowers, more worthy of trust, may emerge in a generation's time). It will cost the world a lot, may prolong the depression much more than if we looked the other way, but deaths in the 6 figures (possibly an order of magnitude more by then, even two...) is simply unacceptable, reason enough to do it, to isolate them and take the collective hit. We can take it, the combined power of the world minus China is still overwhelmingly capable to drive growth. There are tons of candidates where investment will flock to fund factories, and some of these will come back 'home' for a number of strategic sectors.
I'm afraid China's economic appeal has all but collapsed for this generation (next 10-20 years). I don't think most people realize it yet, but the pile of arguments for a cold war is damning, historically aligned with most precedents, and actually a rare occurrence of too much at once.
(Let us pray there was no malign intent towards the world, for that would likely remove the "cold" adjective above.)
China may just have lost its shot at becoming the world's "leader", and it seems they only have themselves to blame, as their lack of transparency and their negligence for human life are cold hard choices they still keep making, some 30 years after Tiananmen. We hoped China was ready and could change, we thought it would evolve towards a more trustable partner, but instead it maintained its internal dystopia more strongly than ever, and actually engaged actively in trying to change us (remember how, very recently, they were trying to force the NBA and so many corporations to essentially bend to the CPC's propaganda... needless to say, that ship has most likely sailed for good). If we needed a reminder (apparently we did), authoritarianism kills.
So this:
> But good luck with that, since China is a massive trade partner and every country is turning a blind eye to them imprisoning people in concentration camps and harvesting organs. It’s unlikely The States are going to have a change of heart anytime soon.
Seems incredibly anachronic to me. It was true in 2019, but that world is now over, for good.
I agree with everything else you said.
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[1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3081601/co...
[2]: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/09/the-thucydides-trap/
[3]: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/08/13/u-s-views-of-c...
[4]: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/12/05/attitudes-towa...
[5]: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-public-opinion-toward-c...
[+] [-] greenie_beans|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GarrisonPrime|5 years ago|reply
Your phrasing suggests so.
[+] [-] intopieces|5 years ago|reply
This article recommends hitting up major brands on their websites, which is ok for all of them except Dell. Dell's website is an absolute shitshow.
I've been using Google Express and liked it quite a bit.
[+] [-] clairity|5 years ago|reply
support independently-owned businesses not trying to corner the market on all your personal data.
[+] [-] beloch|5 years ago|reply
[1]https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/jeff-bezos-net-worth-2020-bil...
[+] [-] dude3|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ekianjo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zerd|5 years ago|reply
Whenever I search for something like that for US/Canada I end up on a site that indexes Amazon/ebay with affiliate links.
[+] [-] monksy|5 years ago|reply
- NewEgg for electronics
- Walmart/Target. You have to be careful with walmart as that they have an open market place
- Aliexpress for assorted small things that I can wait on
- Abebooks (although they're owned by amazon :( ) for used books
- Vitacost (owned by koger) for supplements/vitimins etc
I've gone through 2018, 2019, and 2020 so far without placing a single Amazon order.
[+] [-] maw|5 years ago|reply
(You can think what you want about Amazon, but it's a remarkably provincial piece.)
[+] [-] cody3222|5 years ago|reply
All politics aside, I find it very interesting that this seems to be a law that people just think companies are evil when they are big.
[+] [-] growlist|5 years ago|reply
1. In terms of logistics it seems to me they handed every other logistic company's arse to them - even those that have been running for hundreds of years and thus which you might hope to have some expertise in the field, and conversely even the newer companies which you might hope are relatively unburdened by inertia etc. Prime is awesome.
2. At the risk of sounding heartless, I don't care about all the struggling small competitors. Times and industries change, and Amazon's approach is simply more efficient. Does it really benefit society to have x thousands of people running their own e-commerce business rather than finding something else to do? Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support manual weavers? Or supporting buggy whip manufacturers by taxing car makers? Where do we draw the line?
3. I don't care about the tax avoidance etc. I'd rather see Bezos spend the money on rocketry than have governments wasting yet more on handouts. The former will probably benefit humanity more in the end.
4. Price. If Amazon weren't almost always equal or very slightly above competitors I wouldn't use it. But it is. Why should I pay more? To support ye olde historical e-commerce shoppe?
[+] [-] robotbikes|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coding123|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rad_gruchalski|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JackPoach|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rchaud|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] steveharman|5 years ago|reply
Because they have to. It certainly wasn't always the case.
[+] [-] electriclove|5 years ago|reply