I came to the same conclusion after seeing all my family drinking at least 3 cups daily. Then all my friend, then me being 15 years old started.
About 13 years later I’ve quit cold turkey after having some anxiety problems and headaches. I did some research and read a book which is from the nineties and a bit outdated but holds up pretty good. It basically cured both problems (but withdrawal symptoms the first days were tough, I admit).
For many people it’s ok to drink coffee I guess, but consider that it can affect you and almost no doctor will look into coffee consumption when you pay them a visit to see what could be the reason of some of those ailments. Also I saved a good chunk of money.
So no, you don’t need coffee. You need to give your brain a break (sleep properly) if it asks for it, and you don’t need to drug yourself with substances to “focus” and go on with your life. If life isn’t exciting then you may want to change it.
I recommend reading r/decaf for some interesting testimonies.
> If life isn’t exciting then you may want to change it.
I, like many people, need to exchange my time for a paycheck. During this time I often have to pay close attention to minute details in a text document, and think through implications of design proposals. As much as I enjoy it and feel very fortunate to have such a comfortable and mentally stimulating job, the fact is that it just isn't always going to be exciting. I imagine that dedicating myself to any worthwhile effort over a long period of time would result in many periods during which optimal excitement levels are not achieved.
I'm in the position to already know exactly what my life would be like without coffee, as I grew up Mormon and believed I was personally commanded to not drink coffee or tea by the creator and sustainer of the universe. The result was: I was sleepy at inopportune times. It didn't matter how much sleep I got, or how interested I was in the subject matter. I just got sleepy when I needed to sit still and pay close attention to things. It wasn't ever a huge deal, and I was able to work around it, but that's just how it was. I don't think my sleepiness was particularly unusual or extreme. I just think that humans aren't optimally evolved to sit in math lectures or review intricate documents on a daily schedule.
As soon as I started drinking coffee, there was noticeable improvement. No more than 2 cups per workday. One in the morning, another in the afternoon. My sleepiness all but went away entirely. Ever since then I've been slightly more productive. Like I said, it's not a huge thing, but it's an obvious improvement. If I gave it up as part of some righteous attempt to remove my excitement crutches or whatever, the long term result would simply be: I'd be sleepy more often.
> So no, you don’t need coffee. You need to give your brain a break (sleep properly) if it asks for it, and you don’t need to drug yourself with substances to “focus” and go on with your life.
I'd suggest that the reason so many people drink so much coffee is that giving their brain a break by getting plenty of sleep and R&R is just not feasible.
Take people with small children, for one. Unless you're very lucky, you won't be getting regular quality sleep for 5+ years after having your first child. If you have more than one, then extend this period as necessary.
People don't drink 3+ cups of coffee a day to be their best self living their best life. They drink that much coffee to function at all when they have no other option.
I wish there were more decaf options. Good decaf is delicious. There was this startup: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/a-bold-new-w... that unfortunately never got off the ground. There are also beans from the Swiss water decaf process that you can find at some speciality cafes. What I'd like is a 50/50 blend of decaf/regular beans, something with the content more of tea than coffee.
My dad drank 5+ cups per day, into the evenings. I can't attribute anything, but the guy was the biggest mess of nerves I've seen in my life.
I cut down on my coffee consumption drastically. I used to drink sometimes 6 cups a day as a student, and well into the night. Now I have two cups a day: one in the morning and one at lunch time. I find that my sleep is good because I'm off caffeine by ~23:00 when I go to sleep.
I have completely stopped alcohol, though. That was far, far more detrimental to me health than caffeine and I would encourage others to look at that first before looking at caffeine. There are many benefits of caffeine. There are none for alcohol.
I was never dependent on either drug, though. I often go without coffee when I'm travelling and it's not practical; I don't notice it. The only drug I've had withdrawal symptoms from is cannabis.
> I’ve quit cold turkey after having some anxiety problems and headaches
Use no-doz pills to quit without side effects: reduce/taper/titrate the dose down from one pill per morning to, part-pills, to none over a few weeks.
I quit every few years, and just stopping is very unpleasant. Using caffeine-only No-doz pills as above is cheap and easy. I’ve also done it by using instant coffee and reducing the size of the spoonful of coffee, although it’s mentally harder to break the habit that way. Edit: I guess heavy coffee drinkers might need to start at two pills (check dosage info on package: I've always been fine starting at one). They taste nasty bitter, but OK if quickly washed down with water.
I had trouble sleeping at the start of the lockdown when I realised my caffeine intake had gone way up, I was drinking 4-5 coffees a day instead of my usual 2. I decided to quit caffeine for a while, I had always thought about quitting just to see how a cup of coffee would work when I wan't drinking so much. I'm off it five weeks now and can't see myself going back to drinking it every day, only as a treat or when really needed as I do enjoy it.
I hope that someday cafe culture makes a comeback. As much as I love sitting in a cafe working on my laptop, the current iteration of cafes is but a pale imitation of what they were in the past.
Revolutions were plotted, art movements invented, and history made in places like Cafe Central in Vienna. I recommend reading literature from the 1880s-1930s to get a sense of how important they were for the time period. A Moveable Feast by Hemingway is a good start.
Coffee, and its associated caffeine effects, has an interesting history in the battle theater. These comments regarding coffee are from the American Civil War:
"Perhaps the North's access to caffeine gave its soldiers a strategic advantage. At least that's what one Union officer, Gen. Benjamin Butler, thought. He ordered his men to carry coffee in their canteens and planned attacks based on when his men would be most wired. His advice to other generals was: 'If your men get their coffee early in the morning, you can hold.'" [1]
"In 1859 Sharps Rifle Co. began to manufacture a carbine with a hand-cranked grinder built into the butt stock — or handle — of the rifle. Union soldiers would fill the stock with beans, grind them up, dump them out and use the grounds to cook the coffee. As the morning began, one Civil War diarist described a scene of 'little campfires rapidly increasing to hundreds in numbers that would shoot up along the hills and plains.' The encampment would buzz with the sound of thousands of grinders simultaneously crushing beans. Soon, tens of thousands of muckets (coffee pots) gurgled with fresh brew." [2]
Same is true of amphetamines. US Fighter pilots were taking them as recently as 2002. I heard an interesting story about Elvis on NPR. He took two things from his time in the military: Karate, which colored his dance moves, and drugs. He got fat after coming back from the military, after he stopped the amphetamines.
Very disappointed that the article doesn't mention that about 1734 Johann Sebastian Bach actually wrote a secular cantata (often called the "Coffee Cantata") telling the story of a father trying to get his daughter to stop drinking coffee.
I came here to post about that, and you beat me to it. I was provoked by the article's title, "coffee...a modern necessity." Unless of course you consider Bach modern!
Coffee has a good number of health benefits - plenty of antioxidants and its good for your liver. Naturally, overuse can be bad for you because of its dehydrating effects. I've had conversations with some people who mention they're on their 4th or 5th cup a day, and I've said that I found that 1 or 2 cups a day coupled with plenty of water are much more effective.
Just like anything, a little bit can be good for you, but don't take too much - and stay hydrated! Preferably with plenty of sleep but I understand thats not always realistic for some.
I am so glad I never got on the coffee bandwagon. I once surreptitiously added up how much my coworkers spent on coffee during a typical work week (not even including what they might have spent at home). Crazy (to me) amounts of money.
1) very slight uncomfortableness (nothing severe) [~3 days]
2) more vivdness, alertness, euphoria, calmness [1 to 2 weeks]
3) weird chest / heart issues (nothing too severe but very unpleasant and first time was quite worrying) [2 to 3 weeks]
4) I'm feeling down, unmotivated, dull [starting at about week 4 or 5]
---
stage 4 is what I never survived so far. it's just taking too much of a toll. then again it's an up and down so I once managed to stop for 4 months. but it brings me to a pre-depressive state where I just don't see much point in working. otoh I very much enjoy just relaxing, chilling - if I can do that I'm happy. if not it's a chore - no productiveness at all. very slow mental processing.
---
I started drinking coffee during puberty. So, I guess my brain is not just chemically hooked on it but actually neurologically developed around it.
"On the contrary" I stated. "People who drink coffee are insane. Insane and possessed and, what is worse, willing to be possessed. Most people in asylums drink coffee. If you let them stop drinking it, they would regain enough equanimity to leave. But, no, they don't stop. In fact, they drink more and more, and they get crazier and crazier. They're dehumanized with every single goddamned drop, and although they sense it, they're like lemmings, or buffalo who jump off cliffs. People drink coffee and it makes them insane.
"Must you drink coffee? Why not cocoa, tea, cola tea, mate, yoco infusion, or guarana? Why caffeine? Why not theobromine or theophylline? I have had an occasional square of chocolate. It is the cause of uncontrolled ecstasy, but, afterward, you sink into Promethean despair.
"Note," I demanded, "that caffeine was introduced to Europe in the seventeenth century, post-Renaissance. Why is it, do you think, that the art of the Renaissance and the classical period has never been surpassed? The great heights were reached on angels' wings, not via a filthy corruption brewed from a bean that poisons its own tree."
as for serving coffee to children, my son can have some when he is able to go a minute without excitedly trying to kill himself in a new and innovative way - so about when he is 30.
on edit: added a closing quotation mark I forgot before, haven't had my morning cup yet.
>Renaissance and the classical period has never been surpassed? The great heights were reached on angels' wings, not via a filthy corruption brewed from a bean that poisons its own tree.
People drink coffee to cope with fatique, Also i thought reinassance was about not using same Christian beliefs, thus named Renaissance. Anyways Caffeine isn't as bad as the article says
Tea/coffee is quite common here in India, for me it was (and still is) part of morning breakfast. Even for 2-3 year old kids. At my home, tea is prepared at least thrice a day. I tried quitting, but didn't try too hard because of headaches. I've managed to bring it down to once per day since last few years, unless it is too cold a day and I succumb to a second cup in the evening. Fortunately, I never liked the taste carbonated soft drinks.
I don't drink coffee for caffeine. I like the flavor, and enjoy the process behind brewing and experimenting with different parameters to make a cup that tastes better or worse or simply different. I like going to coffeeshops just because. It's a hobby for me. And although I drink two cups of coffee almost every day, I don't feel any kind of withdrawal when I stop drinking it. The caffeine just happens to be a nice benefit.
I feel like the article didn't really answer that question. Also, given that some of the most successful people I know don't drink coffeine at all, I wonder if the assumption is even correct.
Good read. Kellogg and Post might have been right about coffee causing 'enervation'. Afternoon coffee breaks can lower sleep quality in some people which leads to long term reduction in energy due to low grade sleep deprivation.
I drink up to 4 cups a day or zero per day. I might be a daily drinker for 2 months and then go a month or two without a cup or any caffeine source at all. I've never had a problem with caffeine withdrawal headache which is interesting. 23andme says I'm 'likely to slightly more coffee than average' and I am a slow caffeine metabolizer based on my genetics.
The only coffee rules I really follow are 1) don't drink it if I'm tired - for whatever reason I feel nauseous if I drink it when I am actually tired, and 2) don't drink any after 3PM or else I probably won't go to sleep until 1-2AM.
I never developed a taste for coffee, and decided early on that there was no reason to try to do so. (I'm in my late 30s now.) I do have the occasional coke, which I'd never noticed any effect from until the past few years. A single can of coke later than early afternoon now will have a noticeable impact on my sleep that night—get sleepy later, and end up sleeping around 0.5-1 hours less than I would otherwise. (With the expected resulting tiredness the next day.) Of course I expect much of that is due to lack of tolerance since I so rarely have caffeine.
I just cut back to zero caffeine as of a week ago. It was hell, but I finally hit break-even today. It became obvious the coffee consumption was impacting productivity and sleep quality so I had to hit the reset button.
Just had my first "normal" day and it was far more productive than any other day in 2020. I will try to stay off the coffee indefinitely.
My consumption has gone down to one dose in the morning since the pandemic, but before when I still had a life it was far higher.
You can set your clock to my comedown. Usually I'll need another dose at lunch, especially if I'm to be engaging with other people. If I'm doing something after work I'll need another dose at four, then however late the day runs I'll be needing to take a caffeine pill every four hours or else I'll enter a pretty thick mental fog or start sleeping sitting upright.
That mental fog and falling asleep still happens since I'm not taking the afternoon pills, I've just been leaning into napping like a toddler while working from home. Sometimes I'll doze off with a line half written in terminal, wake up and just go right back to typing the rest of the command.
We would need to define a cup. I have a little pot that I use a #2 filter on to brew. It says it's 4 cups, but really fills my coffee cup twice. I drink 1 pot a day.
My wife hates coffee, but my ritual of bean grinding, water boiling and pouring with all the associated smells has also become part of her mourning routine.
I'm drinking one cup every 1-2 hours. But my coffee is not usual, it's a very hard coffee from moka pot mixed with fresh milk in proportion 1:9, so it's not a lot of coffee actually, but rather a lot of milk. I'm really addicted to the taste of this beverage and caffeine makes me feel a little bit better.
Setting aside the workplace- where I drink coffee for enjoyment and could function without it- I have discovered that a dose of caffeine makes a tremendous difference when I go running at 6AM. (Roll out of bed at 5:50) I go from feeling like I can't make it a half mile, to feeling like the world is happy & beautiful, as the caffeine kicks in. It's been quite stark once I realized what was going on.
Ah, just today I had a caffeine withdrawal induced headache, because I had been drinking tea the last three days. It was so bad I had to pop a Thomapyrin tablet with a Coke. For all non-Germans: it's a fixed combination drug that includes Aspirin (250mg), Paracetamol (200mg) and Caffeine (50mg).
I love coffee, brings me joy every morning. Feel it's worth it for me.
That said, I drink specialty coffee only, have my own espresso machine, use only high quality freshly roasted beans, etc.
I also don't drink more than 2 cups a day, and rarely drink coffee after noon. Sometimes I do a 3rd one later in the day, but will often go decaf for it.
With the principal cost of the espresso machine and equipment, the maintainance cost, the price of grass fed whole milk and top quality beans, it comes to about 1$ per cup for me. Since I have 1 to 2 cups a day, that averages around 600$ a year I spend on coffee. Which for the pleasure I get from it is well well worth the price in my opinion.
[+] [-] outime|5 years ago|reply
About 13 years later I’ve quit cold turkey after having some anxiety problems and headaches. I did some research and read a book which is from the nineties and a bit outdated but holds up pretty good. It basically cured both problems (but withdrawal symptoms the first days were tough, I admit).
For many people it’s ok to drink coffee I guess, but consider that it can affect you and almost no doctor will look into coffee consumption when you pay them a visit to see what could be the reason of some of those ailments. Also I saved a good chunk of money.
So no, you don’t need coffee. You need to give your brain a break (sleep properly) if it asks for it, and you don’t need to drug yourself with substances to “focus” and go on with your life. If life isn’t exciting then you may want to change it.
I recommend reading r/decaf for some interesting testimonies.
[+] [-] sofal|5 years ago|reply
I, like many people, need to exchange my time for a paycheck. During this time I often have to pay close attention to minute details in a text document, and think through implications of design proposals. As much as I enjoy it and feel very fortunate to have such a comfortable and mentally stimulating job, the fact is that it just isn't always going to be exciting. I imagine that dedicating myself to any worthwhile effort over a long period of time would result in many periods during which optimal excitement levels are not achieved.
I'm in the position to already know exactly what my life would be like without coffee, as I grew up Mormon and believed I was personally commanded to not drink coffee or tea by the creator and sustainer of the universe. The result was: I was sleepy at inopportune times. It didn't matter how much sleep I got, or how interested I was in the subject matter. I just got sleepy when I needed to sit still and pay close attention to things. It wasn't ever a huge deal, and I was able to work around it, but that's just how it was. I don't think my sleepiness was particularly unusual or extreme. I just think that humans aren't optimally evolved to sit in math lectures or review intricate documents on a daily schedule.
As soon as I started drinking coffee, there was noticeable improvement. No more than 2 cups per workday. One in the morning, another in the afternoon. My sleepiness all but went away entirely. Ever since then I've been slightly more productive. Like I said, it's not a huge thing, but it's an obvious improvement. If I gave it up as part of some righteous attempt to remove my excitement crutches or whatever, the long term result would simply be: I'd be sleepy more often.
[+] [-] taneq|5 years ago|reply
I'd suggest that the reason so many people drink so much coffee is that giving their brain a break by getting plenty of sleep and R&R is just not feasible.
Take people with small children, for one. Unless you're very lucky, you won't be getting regular quality sleep for 5+ years after having your first child. If you have more than one, then extend this period as necessary.
People don't drink 3+ cups of coffee a day to be their best self living their best life. They drink that much coffee to function at all when they have no other option.
[+] [-] mcculley|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] starpilot|5 years ago|reply
My dad drank 5+ cups per day, into the evenings. I can't attribute anything, but the guy was the biggest mess of nerves I've seen in my life.
[+] [-] globular-toast|5 years ago|reply
I have completely stopped alcohol, though. That was far, far more detrimental to me health than caffeine and I would encourage others to look at that first before looking at caffeine. There are many benefits of caffeine. There are none for alcohol.
I was never dependent on either drug, though. I often go without coffee when I'm travelling and it's not practical; I don't notice it. The only drug I've had withdrawal symptoms from is cannabis.
[+] [-] robocat|5 years ago|reply
Use no-doz pills to quit without side effects: reduce/taper/titrate the dose down from one pill per morning to, part-pills, to none over a few weeks.
I quit every few years, and just stopping is very unpleasant. Using caffeine-only No-doz pills as above is cheap and easy. I’ve also done it by using instant coffee and reducing the size of the spoonful of coffee, although it’s mentally harder to break the habit that way. Edit: I guess heavy coffee drinkers might need to start at two pills (check dosage info on package: I've always been fine starting at one). They taste nasty bitter, but OK if quickly washed down with water.
[+] [-] mywacaday|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keiferski|5 years ago|reply
Revolutions were plotted, art movements invented, and history made in places like Cafe Central in Vienna. I recommend reading literature from the 1880s-1930s to get a sense of how important they were for the time period. A Moveable Feast by Hemingway is a good start.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_culture
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffeehouse
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Café_Central
[+] [-] Arjuna|5 years ago|reply
"Perhaps the North's access to caffeine gave its soldiers a strategic advantage. At least that's what one Union officer, Gen. Benjamin Butler, thought. He ordered his men to carry coffee in their canteens and planned attacks based on when his men would be most wired. His advice to other generals was: 'If your men get their coffee early in the morning, you can hold.'" [1]
"In 1859 Sharps Rifle Co. began to manufacture a carbine with a hand-cranked grinder built into the butt stock — or handle — of the rifle. Union soldiers would fill the stock with beans, grind them up, dump them out and use the grounds to cook the coffee. As the morning began, one Civil War diarist described a scene of 'little campfires rapidly increasing to hundreds in numbers that would shoot up along the hills and plains.' The encampment would buzz with the sound of thousands of grinders simultaneously crushing beans. Soon, tens of thousands of muckets (coffee pots) gurgled with fresh brew." [2]
[1][2] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/07/25/485227943/if...
[+] [-] sandworm101|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_and_culture_of_substit...
[+] [-] thirteenfingers|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweigt_stille,_plaudert_nich...
https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-211/
[+] [-] mcswell|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] acheron|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] headcanon|5 years ago|reply
Just like anything, a little bit can be good for you, but don't take too much - and stay hydrated! Preferably with plenty of sleep but I understand thats not always realistic for some.
[+] [-] irrational|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rv-de|5 years ago|reply
For me the quitting symptoms come in four phases:
1) very slight uncomfortableness (nothing severe) [~3 days]
2) more vivdness, alertness, euphoria, calmness [1 to 2 weeks]
3) weird chest / heart issues (nothing too severe but very unpleasant and first time was quite worrying) [2 to 3 weeks]
4) I'm feeling down, unmotivated, dull [starting at about week 4 or 5]
---
stage 4 is what I never survived so far. it's just taking too much of a toll. then again it's an up and down so I once managed to stop for 4 months. but it brings me to a pre-depressive state where I just don't see much point in working. otoh I very much enjoy just relaxing, chilling - if I can do that I'm happy. if not it's a chore - no productiveness at all. very slow mental processing.
---
I started drinking coffee during puberty. So, I guess my brain is not just chemically hooked on it but actually neurologically developed around it.
---
then the first cup - what a bliss.
[+] [-] neonate|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bryanrasmussen|5 years ago|reply
"Must you drink coffee? Why not cocoa, tea, cola tea, mate, yoco infusion, or guarana? Why caffeine? Why not theobromine or theophylline? I have had an occasional square of chocolate. It is the cause of uncontrolled ecstasy, but, afterward, you sink into Promethean despair.
"Note," I demanded, "that caffeine was introduced to Europe in the seventeenth century, post-Renaissance. Why is it, do you think, that the art of the Renaissance and the classical period has never been surpassed? The great heights were reached on angels' wings, not via a filthy corruption brewed from a bean that poisons its own tree."
From Memoir From Antproof Case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoir_From_Antproof_Case
as for serving coffee to children, my son can have some when he is able to go a minute without excitedly trying to kill himself in a new and innovative way - so about when he is 30.
on edit: added a closing quotation mark I forgot before, haven't had my morning cup yet.
[+] [-] lihaciudaniel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hoseja|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pdog|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thevenkataswamy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oarabbus_|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] frozenlettuce|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asicsp|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nsilvestri|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] partyboat1586|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meerita|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oh_sigh|5 years ago|reply
The only coffee rules I really follow are 1) don't drink it if I'm tired - for whatever reason I feel nauseous if I drink it when I am actually tired, and 2) don't drink any after 3PM or else I probably won't go to sleep until 1-2AM.
[+] [-] tempestn|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bob1029|5 years ago|reply
Just had my first "normal" day and it was far more productive than any other day in 2020. I will try to stay off the coffee indefinitely.
[+] [-] asdff|5 years ago|reply
You can set your clock to my comedown. Usually I'll need another dose at lunch, especially if I'm to be engaging with other people. If I'm doing something after work I'll need another dose at four, then however late the day runs I'll be needing to take a caffeine pill every four hours or else I'll enter a pretty thick mental fog or start sleeping sitting upright.
That mental fog and falling asleep still happens since I'm not taking the afternoon pills, I've just been leaning into napping like a toddler while working from home. Sometimes I'll doze off with a line half written in terminal, wake up and just go right back to typing the rest of the command.
[+] [-] matwood|5 years ago|reply
My wife hates coffee, but my ritual of bean grinding, water boiling and pouring with all the associated smells has also become part of her mourning routine.
[+] [-] vbezhenar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] monkeydust|5 years ago|reply
Worth watching a few vids on youtube to get the technique right.
[+] [-] meerita|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beckingz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ip26|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asdff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emsign|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mturmon|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] didibus|5 years ago|reply
That said, I drink specialty coffee only, have my own espresso machine, use only high quality freshly roasted beans, etc.
I also don't drink more than 2 cups a day, and rarely drink coffee after noon. Sometimes I do a 3rd one later in the day, but will often go decaf for it.
With the principal cost of the espresso machine and equipment, the maintainance cost, the price of grass fed whole milk and top quality beans, it comes to about 1$ per cup for me. Since I have 1 to 2 cups a day, that averages around 600$ a year I spend on coffee. Which for the pleasure I get from it is well well worth the price in my opinion.
[+] [-] ohnope|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jzer0cool|5 years ago|reply
> "No one knows exactly how or when coffee was discovered, though there are many legends about its origin"
And interestingly: > "After crude oil, coffee is the most sought commodity in the world"
[+] [-] benibela|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mirimir|5 years ago|reply
https://libgen.is/search.php?req=Forces+of+Habit+Courtwright...