Ok, I know I need another coffee, so I apologise in advance for being the Grinch here, but...
This is pure CEO puffery. When will these guys get it? When will they start looking up to Steve Jobs instead of treating him like a guy who just happened to get lucky eight times (Apple II, Macintosh, Pixar, Macintosh again, iPod, iTMS, iPhone, App Store, iPad)?
Steve does not talk about what will ship on every Macintosh next year. He might talk about what will ship in the next sixty days if there is an SDK he is shipping to developers today. Steve does not talk about Apple investing in R&D. Steve invests in R&D.
Talking about the future is the action of a person interested in how he looks and sounds, rather than the actions of a person interested in how the company performs.
Steve ships. Leo had better spend less time with his PR people and more time with his engineers. I have nothing against shipping WebOS on every HP PC next year. But please, Leo, just fucking do it. Talk to your engineers, not to me.
"HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn't have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship." - Leo Apotheker, Jan 27 2011
This is kind of cultish. Jobs being successful with a certain approach doesn't mean that it's the only possible successful approach and everyone else should copy it.
Not that you can't make an argument for his approach to disclosure, but it'd be better if not couched in hero-worship.
instead of treating him like a guy who just happened to get lucky eight times (Apple II, Macintosh, Pixar, Macintosh again, iPod, iTMS, iPhone, App Store, iPad)?
and what about Taligent, Apple Pippin, 20th Anniversary Macintosh, Motorola ROKR (colaberation with Apple), Macintosh Portable, Apple Lisa, Apple Newton, Apple ///?
I'm not saying it's bad, after all the saying is "if your not failing your not trying hard enough" but Apple has had it's share of failures as well.
Not that it's at all related to HP, because they aren't anything more than a niche player in that segment, but Microsoft used to use talking about stuff that wasn't shipping to great effect to beat up on their competitors: even if the competitor shipped sooner, everyone would wait around to see what Microsoft shipped.
> every HP PC being able to run WebOS and MIcrosoft Windows as an integrated experience in 2012
I have an HP touch screen laptop/tablet. It has a mode where you can boot into a "light" OS that just has a web browser.
BTW, I've never used it.
> Instant Web is an instant on software solution that allows users to quickly and easily get to a browser, an IM client, and their media in a secure, fast booting environment.
I'll be blown away if HP is actually the first company to put their mobile os on a full desktop computer. I always imagined I would love running something like Android on a desktop; easy to use for everyone, no worries about viruses or software updates, nice modern UI design...really, it's a wonder that these machines don't work like that already.
I can't believe I'm rooting for HP on this one, but I sure hope this works and I hope it kicks ass.
First thing: Don't assume that this means they're going to replace Windows! :-)
Besides the guts of the OS which talks to the hardware (a very slick Linux build) on webOS phones, the platform is basically just HTML, CSS and JavaScript. It has always been easy to run and debug applications in Chromium.
You can download the SDK today and run an x86 build of webOS in VirtualBox. If you haven't played with webOS before, I urge you to try it.
Web developers who care about mobile will go absolutely bananas for it, and their new framework 'Enyo' is an even better experience for developers.
It will be so great if HP gets its groove back. It's really sad to see one of the great American companies flounder for so long. Ever since Carly merged it with Compaq they've been basically stagnant, IMHO, I think WebOS might really set them up for a big power play against Apple over the next few years.
I just like to say that some of HPs offerings are really well done. Just like Apple they can't make a decent computer <$500. Unlike Apple, they'll happily take your money to prove it. I've held the 13" Envy and it could give a Macbook Pro a run. Also, their dm1z laptop comes in at half the price of a Macbook Air and is quite impressive from the reviews I've seen. I was tempted to get one but they are sold out.
As a WebOS developer I think most people don't know what they are missing. It's really a beautiful OS (far better than Android, and better in some respects to iOS) I hope it continues to improve. And now that the designer behind it as at Google (Matias Duarte), Android users will be in for a great surprise.
The only PC I've ever hated was a HP. Overpriced for poor parts, slow as hell for its advertised purposes and using their provided software, and when parts broke I had to pay for special HP parts because they used custom sizing and screws.
Exactly! How is this supposed to jump-start the market for TouchPad apps when a desktop and a tablet involve completely different interaction models?
I remember Tog or another early Mac team member reminiscing about the lack of arrow keys on the original Mac keyboard. They were intentionally left off (so the story goes) to prevent companies from creating shovel-ware ports of their existing applications.
There is value in getting developers to write for a desktop variant of webOS if it gets them downloading the SDK and familiar with the development model, just as the iPad obviously benefitted tremendously from the existing iPhone development infrastructure, but I hope no one thinks that you can simultaneously optimize for both desktop and tablet experiences. (Unless you're the sort of person who says "very unique" or makes multiple things your "top priority.")
The thing I'd really like to see in a portable computer is a touch-interface/mouse-interface hybrid. For example, you dock your iPad in a keyboard docking station (with mouse), and the interface morphs into standard OSX, with all the power and abilities that come along with that. Take it out of the keyboard dock, and it's an iPad again, with the finger friendly iOS touch interface (and limited to touch apps). Desktop apps and touch apps could share data, but would ideally have different interfaces. E.g. OSX's Mail.app and iOS's Mail app.
For HP of course, substitute webOS "slate" for iPad and custom desktop Linux distribution for OSX (I wish).
This is a stupid idea, imho. If you want Windows as the OS, get a PC with Windows. If you want WebOs, get a PC with WebOs. But getting one with both, is just an annoying thing and most users won't really care.
I'm not buying a powerful machine with GBs of RAM and a dual-core processor, to just run that WebOs thing. It works well with a tablet, but a PC is a computer and not a tablet.
It'll be a good idea, though, to install WebOs on Free DOS machines.
It's impossible for me so far to picture how a dual-OS system will benefit users. I keep hearing about some ability to boot the "little" OS when you just want to surf the web a little... that sounds horrible and I don't at all understand why you wouldn't just unsleep the machine from the "big" OS instance and use that. Is it just that sleep mode doesn't work well? ... So we're gonna throw on a whole other OS, too, to mitigate that? Surely I'm missing something because this sounds ludicrous.
A shame that HP are coupling webOS with HP PCs, instead of putting webOS on the Web, where it might better thrive and spread.
With webOS on the Web, Pre3 and TouchPad owners could log in at webos.me (or similar) from any WebKit browser and see their apps and data pre-synced; isn't that a better vision for a company that 'believes the Web is the future'?
HP's new Enyo SDK already allows developers to build apps for WebKit-based browsers that resize for desktop, tablet, and mobile screens[1]; it is a joy to use and targeting multiple screen sizes works great, so it feels like a missed opportunity that webOS developers will spend their time building apps in a WebKit browser, but be unable to publish them for others to use in a WebKit browser too.
If they're trying to attract developers -- the Web offers a much larger userbase than HP machines ever will. I think it worth sacrificing desktop and laptop sales to build mobile sales and create a healthy future for webOS.
I think WebOS will be like Steam is on PCs or like the Apple App store is on Mac based computers. In this case the purchasing and updating of apps will be consistent and easy to maintain, however they will still run side by side Photoshop and Games.
WebOS apps will run on WebTops to compete with ChromeTops on the netbook side, but those apps will also run on the desktop.
A key difference between WebTops and WebOS apps and Chrome apps will be the "Touch to Share" feature that will allow you to wirelessly share data between paired devices. This will make it really easy to have a phone, watch, TV, netbook, tablet and PC and share data between them.
I bet you will even be able to configure a home network by using some sort of "Touch to Share" configuration stone.
Only WebOS apps will have this feature and you may need special HP hardware to allow that functionality to work. With 100 million devices using "Touch To Share" next year, I hope we have a click-wheel level UX experiance to Rival Apple.
So that's why they were porting that to Windows. I just hope this won't end up killing WebOS. It was great on the Pre, I think it will do great on a tablet, but porting it to a PC might require HP to take WeBOS in a direction that will be worse for the platforms it was originally designed for.
There are two ways this could go, using WebOS as an instant-on OS.
Or some form of framework running within Windows to allow WebOS applications to be run, with notifications being forwarded over Wi-Fi from WebOS devices. Remember the new Enyo framework was actually demonstrated running within Google Chrome.
Either way this could be a boast to the developer eco-system, and reduce the cost per HP PC.
The great thing about webOS is that it's all HTML5 and CSS based, even the apps. For their mobile devices they choose to run a Linux kernel on the hardware but in principle it doesn't matter what the kernel is, as long as they have some way to show the apps.
Well, to start off with the initial SDK was just HTML5 and CSS. Later the PDK was released to enable actual native level coding, most of the higher end apps are PDK apps.
As a side note, the original iPhone was also all web technology based. It wasn't until a year or so later that a native SDK became available.
This is crazy! Say goodbye to HP. Who will be their client base. Google will beat them at the simple platform of straight to the internet! I have the Google Chrome CR-48 and its my first choice to surf the internet.
When there is now an Android phone running Linux when connected to a laptop shell, HP is doing the opposite!
[+] [-] raganwald|15 years ago|reply
This is pure CEO puffery. When will these guys get it? When will they start looking up to Steve Jobs instead of treating him like a guy who just happened to get lucky eight times (Apple II, Macintosh, Pixar, Macintosh again, iPod, iTMS, iPhone, App Store, iPad)?
Steve does not talk about what will ship on every Macintosh next year. He might talk about what will ship in the next sixty days if there is an SDK he is shipping to developers today. Steve does not talk about Apple investing in R&D. Steve invests in R&D.
Talking about the future is the action of a person interested in how he looks and sounds, rather than the actions of a person interested in how the company performs.
Steve ships. Leo had better spend less time with his PR people and more time with his engineers. I have nothing against shipping WebOS on every HP PC next year. But please, Leo, just fucking do it. Talk to your engineers, not to me.
[+] [-] JoelSutherland|15 years ago|reply
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12291529
[+] [-] contextfree|15 years ago|reply
Not that you can't make an argument for his approach to disclosure, but it'd be better if not couched in hero-worship.
[+] [-] jarek|15 years ago|reply
Nah, he just talks about where he thinks the entire industry is heading and post-what era we are entering at the moment.
Come on.
[+] [-] camiller|15 years ago|reply
and what about Taligent, Apple Pippin, 20th Anniversary Macintosh, Motorola ROKR (colaberation with Apple), Macintosh Portable, Apple Lisa, Apple Newton, Apple ///?
I'm not saying it's bad, after all the saying is "if your not failing your not trying hard enough" but Apple has had it's share of failures as well.
[+] [-] davidw|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pragmatic|15 years ago|reply
> every HP PC being able to run WebOS and MIcrosoft Windows as an integrated experience in 2012
I have an HP touch screen laptop/tablet. It has a mode where you can boot into a "light" OS that just has a web browser.
BTW, I've never used it.
> Instant Web is an instant on software solution that allows users to quickly and easily get to a browser, an IM client, and their media in a secure, fast booting environment.
I believe its based on Splashtop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop
[+] [-] cryptoz|15 years ago|reply
I can't believe I'm rooting for HP on this one, but I sure hope this works and I hope it kicks ass.
[+] [-] apl|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrubyer|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdub|15 years ago|reply
Besides the guts of the OS which talks to the hardware (a very slick Linux build) on webOS phones, the platform is basically just HTML, CSS and JavaScript. It has always been easy to run and debug applications in Chromium.
You can download the SDK today and run an x86 build of webOS in VirtualBox. If you haven't played with webOS before, I urge you to try it.
Web developers who care about mobile will go absolutely bananas for it, and their new framework 'Enyo' is an even better experience for developers.
Here's a blog post about webOS I wrote quite a while back: http://bethesignal.org/blog/2010/06/07/why-im-excited-about-...
[+] [-] gfodor|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yardie|15 years ago|reply
As a WebOS developer I think most people don't know what they are missing. It's really a beautiful OS (far better than Android, and better in some respects to iOS) I hope it continues to improve. And now that the designer behind it as at Google (Matias Duarte), Android users will be in for a great surprise.
[+] [-] nopassrecover|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JonoW|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edw|15 years ago|reply
I remember Tog or another early Mac team member reminiscing about the lack of arrow keys on the original Mac keyboard. They were intentionally left off (so the story goes) to prevent companies from creating shovel-ware ports of their existing applications.
There is value in getting developers to write for a desktop variant of webOS if it gets them downloading the SDK and familiar with the development model, just as the iPad obviously benefitted tremendously from the existing iPhone development infrastructure, but I hope no one thinks that you can simultaneously optimize for both desktop and tablet experiences. (Unless you're the sort of person who says "very unique" or makes multiple things your "top priority.")
[+] [-] seanb|15 years ago|reply
For HP of course, substitute webOS "slate" for iPad and custom desktop Linux distribution for OSX (I wish).
[+] [-] csomar|15 years ago|reply
I'm not buying a powerful machine with GBs of RAM and a dual-core processor, to just run that WebOs thing. It works well with a tablet, but a PC is a computer and not a tablet.
It'll be a good idea, though, to install WebOs on Free DOS machines.
[+] [-] glhaynes|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] modernerd|15 years ago|reply
With webOS on the Web, Pre3 and TouchPad owners could log in at webos.me (or similar) from any WebKit browser and see their apps and data pre-synced; isn't that a better vision for a company that 'believes the Web is the future'?
HP's new Enyo SDK already allows developers to build apps for WebKit-based browsers that resize for desktop, tablet, and mobile screens[1]; it is a joy to use and targeting multiple screen sizes works great, so it feels like a missed opportunity that webOS developers will spend their time building apps in a WebKit browser, but be unable to publish them for others to use in a WebKit browser too.
If they're trying to attract developers -- the Web offers a much larger userbase than HP machines ever will. I think it worth sacrificing desktop and laptop sales to build mobile sales and create a healthy future for webOS.
[1]: http://www.precentral.net/hp-posts-enyo-development-walkthro...
[+] [-] ryanwatkins|15 years ago|reply
There is no reason to believe they will not also do this.
Use the service architecture to allow Enyo development to expose device specific system services (telephony, etc).
But license (open source?) Enyo for web development for pure web based apps, or even things like PhoneGap.
[+] [-] jerome_bent|15 years ago|reply
HP should be aiming for web delivery and even their own web browser.
[+] [-] jdavid|15 years ago|reply
WebOS apps will run on WebTops to compete with ChromeTops on the netbook side, but those apps will also run on the desktop.
A key difference between WebTops and WebOS apps and Chrome apps will be the "Touch to Share" feature that will allow you to wirelessly share data between paired devices. This will make it really easy to have a phone, watch, TV, netbook, tablet and PC and share data between them.
I bet you will even be able to configure a home network by using some sort of "Touch to Share" configuration stone.
Only WebOS apps will have this feature and you may need special HP hardware to allow that functionality to work. With 100 million devices using "Touch To Share" next year, I hope we have a click-wheel level UX experiance to Rival Apple.
[+] [-] micheljansen|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kilian|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hoff|15 years ago|reply
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/05/hp-introducing-...
HP did appear to be (per Mr Hurd's comments back around the time of the Palm acquisition) considering using WebOS in their printers.
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] danlove|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mahrain|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] camiller|15 years ago|reply
As a side note, the original iPhone was also all web technology based. It wasn't until a year or so later that a native SDK became available.
[+] [-] hakl|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philthy|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomelders|15 years ago|reply
I also liked the bit where it was all bollocks.
[+] [-] aschwartz18|15 years ago|reply
When there is now an Android phone running Linux when connected to a laptop shell, HP is doing the opposite!
[+] [-] danssig|15 years ago|reply