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Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew

54 points| Donmario | 5 years ago |ukaviation.news

47 comments

order

gazoakley|5 years ago

More background here:

https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airways-fires-pilot/

https://viewfromthewing.com/qatar-airways-firing-pilots-and-...

It's suggested in the first article that the pilot had failed to pass the necessary exams:

"The other side of the story here is that the pilot has spent the past six years completing a two year training course, and still hasn’t passed any of the tests necessary to become a pilot. The airline became fed up, and since they’re firing pilots anyway and trying to cut costs, they also decided to terminate their contract with her at this point."

nujabe|5 years ago

Fair play to me!

growse|5 years ago

Why would they hire someone so incapable in the first place?

9nGQluzmnq3M|5 years ago

By COVID standards, Qatar has actually been one of the better-off airlines in the Gulf, since (unlike the UAE) they still allow transit passengers and have been making some money flying stranded people around, even to the extent of putting on entirely new destinations like Brisbane. But obviously their business has still taken a huge hit and they've got a lot of excess capacity to shed. As always, PPrune has the goss: https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airw...

But this has always been the flip side of doing business in the Gulf: you're paid well, but once you're no longer useful, you'll be discarded without a second thought. This happened during the GFC as well and there were plenty of stories of once high-flying expats sleeping in their cars.

helsinkiandrew|5 years ago

Are there any comprehensive websites that are documenting this type of behaviour for the future - like Glassdoor but for consumers and investors?

Given an equal choice between buying something from two companies I'd choose the one that had been nicer to its employees and community.

Case in point - I own a (quite small) number of shares in UK retailer Hotel Chocolat. I'd probably have sold them if it wasn't for their apparently decent policy: https://www.hotelchocolat.com/uk/corona-virus-updates.html

dariusj18|5 years ago

I considered doing one at one point, then saw my domain idea was already taken. http://covidshame.com/

They don't have much info about their project. I kind of assume they won't follow up.

ornornor|5 years ago

I think this clause is standard for cadets. I don’t agree with it but I remember looking into becoming a cadet when I was much younger.

I distinctly remember EasyJet: you basically had to go to a bank to get the loan for the whole cost of your pilot training (300k GBP iirc) in your name. If you failed to pass any of the mandatory exams and steps during your training, you’d be kicked out and have to repay the loan back on your own. If you made it as a pilot, EasyJet would deduct part of your salary to pay back.

It seemed like a very shitty arrangement for the cadet/pilot wannabe where you basically shoulder most of the risk for the privilege of working as a pilot for EasyJet.

I didn’t enroll to become a pilot. I don’t regret it.

redis_mlc|5 years ago

It's an interesting situation.

Qatar Airlines pilot requirements are ICAO ATP, which you can convert to an FAA license, or just go fly in China.

(It's more difficult to go the opposite way, from FAA to European (EASA.))

You will never hear of such a situation where the pilot is billed for ab initio training in the US because US airlines do very little such training, if any. When US airlines partner with a flight training academy, they just promise to let graduates apply. :)

Sometimes US airlines will pay for (jet) type ratings, which cost in the $20k range, and charge the pilot if they leave within a year.

notRobot|5 years ago

This really sucks for those affected. It's one thing if an organisation chooses to stop funding their employees' education further, but to sack them and then demand compensation for what was supposed to be under "scholarship"? Ugh. Shitty.

jonplackett|5 years ago

That’s it, I’m cancelling my summer holiday to Qatar.

vinay427|5 years ago

I can't tell if you're serious, but Qatar has had a long history of migrant worker abuses and exploitation, perhaps most globally publicized due to the FIFA World Cup controversies. This Qatar Airways incident is rather benign by comparison. Migrant/foreign workers make up almost 90% of their workforce according to this article, which honestly makes much of Qatar seem dependent on something resembling indentured servitude:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...

deathgrips|5 years ago

Lawyer up.

gbil|5 years ago

that was my initial reaction, like "ok this would not stand at any court". then I realized that it probably affects employees who live and are citizens of Qatar or similar nations in which 1. I have no idea about their legal system 2. and the only idea I have from what I see in the news etc. about worker rights etc. is not the best

Antwan|5 years ago

I wouldn't pay anything if I were this guy.

He has the advantage of holding the balance in his account, and this matter doesn't stick in front of any court. So good luck to QAW to see the color of this money.

helsinkiandrew|5 years ago

I guess this will be won, if at all, in the court of popular opinion

onetimemanytime|5 years ago

Training was done in 2013 apparently. Still hasn't paid it by working for 7 years? Makes no sense.

drevil-v2|5 years ago

"The other side of the story here is that the pilot has spent the past six years completing a two year training course, and still hasn’t passed any of the tests necessary to become a pilot. The airline became fed up, and since they’re firing pilots anyway and trying to cut costs, they also decided to terminate their contract with her at this point."

xwdv|5 years ago

He hasn’t worked, he’s been training and dicking around. Imagine just being paid to learn about your job, without ever really producing any value, for the past seven years.

raverbashing|5 years ago

Flyer forums have a lot of information on work conditions regarding airlines around the world (usually the ones that attract expats).

From what I remember this company does not get the better reviews, even when compared with other companies from the same region.

LatteLazy|5 years ago

This is pretty standard in many countries and industries.

Really, we need a law that turns it into a loan automatically with reasonable terms at the end of employment. But other than that, this is no different to any other student loan. Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another.

a3n|5 years ago

How did I kill free education?

C1sc0cat|5 years ago

Actually not most countries strictly limit /regulate this sort behaviour and if your made redundant I suspect that the employer would not be able to recover anything.

Unfortunately employment practices in that part of the world are Horrific - its just normally poor navvies employed on building sites get the worst of it - see some of the coverage of the word cup construction in Quatar

gambiting|5 years ago

>>Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another.

This anglo-centric assumption is killing me on HN. My "boomer" parents were deep in a communist state at my age and they could only dream of the quality of life that we enjoy today. But hey they are "boomers" so fuck them, right?