Safe: Set maximum capacity for any room, floor, or building

[gavman]

The idea is definitely cool (and important/impactful at this time if successful). That said, in the midst of a global pandemic where human density is inherently dangerous and social distancing is espoused, naming a product "Safe by Density" gives the exact opposite initial reaction you're probably hoping for.

[dang]

I've replaced the submitted title ("Introducing: Safe by Density") with a more specific phrase from the article.

[rosstex]

I guess the old "Safety in numbers" adage is going the way of the dodo?

[jayd16]

It is a bit Orwellian. War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Safe by Density.

[afar]

Yeah. Should have been "Safe by reducing Density"

[Rapzid]

Safe by scarcity

[alfozan]

This is a cool concept, though it appears to only care about the total number of people being below a set threshold regardless how people interact (i.e. maintain social distancing)

Shameless plug: two friends and I put together a small app that uses security cameras feed to calculate real-time density + estimate "safe" space capacity:

Demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgxhptePxM Demo site: https://flou.fyi/ (takes a bit to load)

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

I think it could work. Heavens know, I will now have to actively avoid places that are not at least careful about how they reopen.

I am mildly concerned about people, who see doing the opposite as a political expression, but some things cannot be helped.

[jedberg]

> I am mildly concerned about people, who see doing the opposite as a political expression

Those people are a very small but vocal minority, being amplified by social media.

All the data says that most people are complying with safe practices, even when their governments aren't requiring it.

[afar]

The bet is that by giving data back to people to let them make their own decisions about safety, they'll self moderate.

[IgorPartola]

I love this idea and I love how it looks. The design is top notch. Really hope to see this near me soon.

[larschdk]

The stylized design makes my brain recognize is as just another random inspirational poster or an add, not something I should pay attention to. We have standard and widespread symbols already for stop/go which should be applied here in some form.

[lvturner]

Having seen the way people 'queue' when waiting outside an eatery implementing social distancing guidelines - this only solves part of the problem.

Edit: Perhaps integrating it with some sort of QR Code based ticketing system for entry would alleviate the issues of people queueing (or huddling) outside the store?

[afar]

You're right. "Notify me when it's quiet" is a thing the system supports. In related news, load balancing humans is a two-sided thing.

[redis_mlc]

So ... how does it work, given that 2m is not enough, and the distance of 10m is thought to be more likely? :)

[Polylactic_acid]

My first thought is this puts way too much stock in the idea that rooms are safe as long as they aren't too packed. To me it seems like this 1.5m rule and person limits aren't actually backed up by real research and are just numbers pulled out of a hat when something had to be done fast.

We shouldn't be finding ways to get people back in to shared buildings as soon as possible because infections don't just give up because the TV on the door said OK.

[wafn]

I could not find whether this integrates with NFPA etc. to help interpret blueprints (or simplified diagrams). While determining capacity is relatively easy, it could definitely be easier.

[_bxg1]

Interesting, but I'm skeptical it could make some semblance of normal life "safe" purely through occupancy counts. It also seems like a likely very expensive solution to something that could be solved with a handheld clicker. Corporate offices might splurge for it, but they're also more likely to just have people working from home.

[afar]

Nets out to ~$85/mo. For a small place, that's substantially less expensive than staffing it full time.

disclosure: co-founder here.

[piniondna]

I think people think that shooting down ideas makes them sound intelligent and “in the know”, but in reality it just makes you sound rigid and not creative enough to see the merit in a idea.

This seems to be a common attitude on HN, but it’s less than useful. Genuine critical thinking is great... dogmatic cynicism is useless.

[ericnjorgenson]

You think a software solution is more expensive than someone on the payroll with a handheld clicker?

[city41]

The name bothers me a bit. Social distancing does not make us “safe” just “safer”. It worries me that people might think things like masks and possibly this tool are more effective than they actually are and become complacent.

[kevin2r]

A phone app could replace this right? Using the front facing camera you could run some image recognition to count the flow of people and show the statistics on screen. Put the phone on a stand and leave it running. Much cheaper.

[flak48]

Their whole selling point seems to be that their hardware + software can count people accurately without needing a camera. The premise being that cameras spook people.

Cameras are already commonplace enough where I work, for security purposes. So not sure how easily cameras can be eliminated.

The dashboards they provide don't seem to be have to be coupled to the kind of ($850) hardware they are selling. Like you said, cameras should be able to do the job.

[afar]

Many have / are trying this. Harder to pull off than it seems. Privacy is a big part but distributing the infra to do this at scale is nontrivial. A number of years back Placemeter used to pay you 50/mo to install your Android device on a window sill so they could understand movement. Never quite took off.

[zyang]

Or you can just fingerprint the wifi/bluetooth signals from people's phones.

[sohamsankaran]

How do these devices actually work?

[raizinho]

Here's an interview from a while back: https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2018/07/16/counting-peo...

[euroderf]

"Indoor Densitivity"

[riffic]

Viruses don't care about how many people are in a room, and this doesn't seem like something people are going to worry about much 10 years down the road.

[adrianmonk]

They do "care".

First of all, if that number is in the interval [0,1], it's a qualitatively different situation than if the number is in [2,∞].

Jokes aside, there is a statistical relationship between the number of people in a room and the distance they can/will keep from each other. More density means more close encounters on average. Less density doesn't guarantee nobody gets too close to someone else, but it makes it less likely.

[mceachen]

At the same time, I'd much rather shop in a small neighborhood grocery store with 5-10 other patrons instead of 200.

Trader Joe's and other retailers (at least in the bay area) have to delegate a full-time employee to the front door to throttle incoming patrons. This would free up that employee.

[afar]

Agree. Intent is to kill the product once this is all over and use the infrastructure to design better cities.

[triyambakam]

I am sad about how far apart we're growing as people due to virus that is no more scary than the flu.

[AnotherGoodName]

Funny you say no more scary than the flu when the flu is literally the cause of the last pandemic that killed 3% if the global population.

[ashleshbiradar]

you mean to imply covid-19 is no more scary than a normal seasonal flu ?