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Behind Irish outpouring of relief for Navajo

274 points| conorliv1 | 5 years ago |csmonitor.com | reply

51 comments

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[+] aclimatt|5 years ago|reply
Since the article only very lightly touches on it and some may be understandably confused about the "solidarity" between the Irish and Native Americans, the "Potato Famine" was only so deadly in Ireland to the Irish due to years of colonial rule -- not because the only food in Ireland were rotten potatoes.

Ireland had plenty of food at the time. They even continued to export food to England. It's just that due to systematic oppression, Irish natives couldn't afford anything that weren't (now blighted) potatoes.

That's where the parallel comes from with the Native Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

[+] xenocyon|5 years ago|reply
A bit of a digression, but the same was true of famines in India under British rule. India (i.e. Britain) was exporting rice and wheat to England at the same time that a third of Bengal died from starvation.
[+] jajag|5 years ago|reply
A more accurate portrayal of the situation is to say that Ireland of the time was a state whose economy depended on the export of premium food products - cattle, dairy & grain - whilst the majority of the population were subsistence tenant farmers who grew that produce in order to pay for their farm tenancies, whilst growing a side crop of potatoes in order to sustain themselves. When the potato blight occurred, they were still expected to pay their farm rents using the produce they produced despite this leaving them without a food crop for their own sustenance. Despite what's believed from the common narrative, most of the landlords, middlemen and exporters facilitating the trade and export of food from Ireland at this time were Irish, and many were Catholics; and they were operating within an economic system were these actions made sense. As they would have seen it, stopping the export of food stuffs would have caused economic collapse.

In a modern state with well developed central government, the state would have been able to step in and take appropriate actions. But governments of the 1840s simply didn't have the scope of action available to a modern government, or the necessary vision of their role to accompany that. The result was a tragedy of truly enormous proportions, and which certainly more could have been done to avoid; but to suggest that it was simply due to 'systematic oppression' is to greatly simplify the divisions that existed within Irish society at the time, or the motivations of those involved.

[+] MarkMc|5 years ago|reply
There is a similar story described by Robert Cialdini in his classic book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion [1]:

"In 1985 Ethiopia could justly lay claim to the greatest suffering and privation in the world. Its economy was in ruin. Its food supply had been ravaged by years of drought and internal war. Its inhabitants were dying by the thousands from disease and starvation. Under these circumstances, I would not have been surprised to learn of a five-thousand-dollar relief donation from Mexico to that wrenchingly needy country. I remember my chin hitting my chest, though, when a brief newspaper item I was reading insisted that the aid had gone in the opposite direction. Native officials of the Ethiopian Red Cross had decided to send the money to help the victims of that year’s earthquakes in Mexico City...Despite the enormous needs prevailing in Ethiopia, the money was being sent because Mexico had sent aid to Ethiopia in 1935, when it was invaded by Italy."

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28815.Influence

[+] pjc50|5 years ago|reply
Extraordinary thing to happen at the time of Band Aid and the big donations from the UK to Ethiopia following the first disturbing pictures of the famine being broadcast on the news.

Disturbing pictures on the news are now so routine as to be ignored .. or vanish altogether.

[+] s_dev|5 years ago|reply
I read this -- very proud of the efforts of the Irish but proud also that they didn't forget those small acts of kindness. Showing gratitude is important and I think this shows gratitude for the solidarity shown in the past.

We're also aware 'Choctaw' and 'Hopi' and 'Navajo' are all different tribes and Native Americans aren't a monolithic group. It's just hard if not nigh on impossible to give back to the exact people that helped us. It's the sentiment that counts in this sense.

[+] hellofunk|5 years ago|reply
The hundreds of Native American tribes of centuries past were as different from each other as they were different from European cultures. In fact the many different regions of Europe have always had much more in common with each other than the original tribes of North America had with each other.
[+] inetsee|5 years ago|reply
When I see stories like this I wish there was some way on Hacker News that I could spend some of my karma points to give this story more than one up vote.
[+] Talanes|5 years ago|reply
As someone who's still internalized pre-voting internet discussions, and just reads things without voting 99% of the time, I saw your comment and upvoted. Some real karma for you :)
[+] nailer|5 years ago|reply
Having an Irish dad, there's a common sense of solidarity between Irish people and other groups who are often seen as oppressed. My Dad and uncles etc. would identify with the Black Panthers, and the PLO, as and a kid (in Australia) I'd wonder why these groups that were so far away and so different were important, and they'd say something along the lines of "because they're us" - like this is the most obvious thing that anyone should know.

There's good and bad here (there's a tendency to see the world as 'oppressor' and 'oppressed'), but it comes from good intentions.

[+] mywacaday|5 years ago|reply
In 2015 my local town erected a sculpture to commemorate the event. Maybe that's why the story is fresh in Irish memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindred_Spirits_(sculpture)

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/kindred-spirits-sculptur...

[+] doinathing|5 years ago|reply
Seeing the donations coming in (and making one myself) I was reminded that this sculpture is the reason I know about the event in the first place and, saw the significance of the help, and felt moved to donate. It made me think a lot about how public art and the things we commemorate with public art can have a tangible impact on our actions and our beliefs.
[+] qwerty456127|5 years ago|reply
I've already read the story a number of times (incl. here IIRC) during the recent weeks so, despite it's cool, heart-touching and inspiring, it's nothing new.

What impressed me this time, however, is the quick read / deep read switch articles on this website have. It's the first time I see such and I bloody freakin wish every website had it!

[+] bcoates|5 years ago|reply
Maybe we need a little badge for articles that are inverted-pyramid compliant and you can stop reading whenever you like
[+] ConsiderCrying|5 years ago|reply
It's always a bit sad to see people rely on the chance charity of others, even if, in most cases, these others come through. The Navajo people have been let down by the people ruling over their land (no, I don't mean the Navajo leaders.)

But the Irish/Choctaw friendship is one of my favorite uplifting stories if only because it's about those who have little giving it away to people in a similar predicament. It's still sad but there's so much kindness in that gesture.

I think I remember a similar story where an Indian or Shri Lankan city sent some livestock to a starving European city, but can't find anything at the moment.

[+] 1cvmask|5 years ago|reply
Hear is another similar story with a twist from English royalty:

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/generous-turkish-...

[+] frabbit|5 years ago|reply
That is particularly galling. It is interesting that the story was challenged in its totality when (ex) president Mary Robinson mentioned it during a visit to Turkey (she incorrectly stated that the heraldic coat of arms of Drogheda town contained a star-and-crescent in gratitude for this act, whereas it was the emblem of an earlier English military governor).
[+] blendo|5 years ago|reply
I have great respect for the Navajo and Hopi people of Arizona and New Mexico.
[+] oh_sigh|5 years ago|reply
I have great respect for the Scottish people of Scotland.
[+] youngNed|5 years ago|reply
As is the case in a lot of discussion that touches on Irish History, in this thread there are a lot of really bad takes - for anyone interested in a good, well balanced, summary delivered by experts in under an hour - i really recommend the BBC 'In Our Time' podcast on this subject - as with all of these shows, its pretty dense with info and facts from a number of sources:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003rj1