[aaai]

Everybody's starting to figure out that to get affordable development you need:

1. fast development (both Python and node)

2. boring platform where it's usually OK to leave smth unupgraded for >5 yrs (Python wins here hands down)

3. cheap devs (good Node.js devs have a lot of option to "jump around" between front and back and frameworks so higher room for leverage ...with Python you can hire cheapest newly grads since it's now taught in most unis)

...on top of this:

- performance in terms of "requests served per CPU power" does NOT matter for most apps (and when it does caching saves most situations) - and if it does, modern Python can deliver now (async is mature)

- using same stack as ML and datasci comes as a bonus - you can have backend-full-stack-devs jumping between data pipelines, APIs/web, ML models, data analysis code etc. who can stay separate from frontend-full-stack-devs doing web frontends + mobile hybrid etc.

It would be great if we could also standardize on a static high performance language common to all (eg. usable for special-performance-sensitive-code either standalone services or Python-modules or node-modules) ...this area's a mess, too much overlap, duplicated work, and too hard for devs to jump from one ecosystem to another (Rust and C++ as lib/extension langs... Java/Kotlin or Go or C#/F# for standalone services... now Swift an option too...).

[nojito]

>(async is mature)

is Django or Flask async yet?

[aaai]

Why do ppl like Django and Flask so much? They're heavy awkward dinosaurs with nasty codebases perpetuating really bad coding patterns (globals?! (multiple)inheritance-till-your-head-spins?! - that's what that soup of whateverMixins is, let's stop pretending... serializers that DE-serialize and different stuff depending on situation?! ...stuff you couldn't add type annotations too because the types would depend of calling contexts far away etc. etc. etc.).

If you code Python, at least take some time to read more modern code: see responder (not my favorite but cool), fastapi, starlette, asyncio http examples etc... Or see older examples (as old as Django) like web.py.

[msluyter]

Also, check out FastAPI, which is quite nice. Fully async with a lot of other nice features:

https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/

[pgjones]

Potentially soon for Flask, https://github.com/pallets/flask/pull/3412. Also see Quart, https://gitlab.com/pgjones/quart

[philote]

Not that I'm aware of, but Tornado is a great async web framework. We use MongoDB and an ODM called umongo (that uses Motor for async, pymongo-like connections). I'm not sure what good async ORMs are available.

[Kihashi]

Almost for django:

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.0/topics/async/

[dbcurtis]

Use Quart in place of Flask