If you want to remain an IC then remote is probably the best option, but if you want to climb up into a leadership role I don’t really see how you get there in a remote role.
Also Facebook’s admission that salary will be tied to cost of living wherever you choose to live sets a bad precedent. Anyone who thought they could just keep their Bay Area salary is going to be disappointed, and it gives cover to every other company thinking of going remote to do the same.
I’m also wondering how easy it would be to change jobs once you go remote. The benefit of being in the Bay is that the number of companies is so high that it makes it easy to interview if you’re looking for a change. While possible to interview remotely it’s much more difficult since the number of companies open to that is still small.
As far as I know, ALL big tech cos have paid differently based on where you live since forever. If you work for Google Pittsburgh you make less than Seattle/Bay/NYC, if you work for <FAANG> London office you make less than American hubs. I don't know why people are surprised that that applies to remote workers as well.
I don’t get why the pay adjustment is so controversial. Facebook (and Google, and Apple, etc.) already have offices throughout the world, and they already set pay based on the local market and cost of living. Not sure why “remote work” independent of an office should be any different, or why this is surprising?
Back when I was looking at SV companies they had several satellite offices, but the perception at the time was that if you wanted to climb the ladder you had to be at HQ. That would be Mountain View, Cupertino, etc.
It feels like that wouldn’t change even after COVID-19. Partial remote work is definitely coming and I hope it’s permanent, but needing to be at HQ on a semi-regular basis doesn’t seem like it would go away. It’s also probably why the LA-SF airline routes will probably bounce back rather quickly.
> Also Facebook’s admission that salary will be tied to cost of living wherever you choose to live sets a bad precedent. Anyone who thought they could just keep their Bay Area salary is going to be disappointed, and it gives cover to every other company thinking of going remote to do the same.
But that's good, some people in sv make more money in a year than some other people make in their entire life. If this was allowed it would probably destroy so many places. Faang salary makes you a king just about anywhere in the world besides a few major cities, in my home town you could buy a flat per month and still have some money to invest somewhere else.
Yes but lots of people locked into a 4 year vesting schedule based on Bay Area COL. I don't think they're going to take those back. So even with a pay cut, you're likely to come out ahead -- maybe even paid-for-house ahead.
I don't think any of these companies are going "full remote". It seems like the strategy is more like, remote if you want it but there is still an office.
I think the likely outcome is going to simply be more mix of remote and onsite in the future. Any company that makes it through this is going to realize remote works fine. I'm sure there will be some companies that will still insist onsite-only, and they'll lose a bunch of employees who just realized they prefer remote.
Regardless, what I really hope is that at the least this helps companies shift towards more remote-friendly culture and policies. Things like: every meeting has a conference link; one person remote, everyone remote; more async communications and decision making. If you do sit in a room together, have some empathy for remote people, and make sure you have high-quality video and audio, no tapping on the table or "side-conversations" while hovering over a mic, and make sure you have remote videos feeds visible and are sharing the screen you're discussing.
It would be great to see a list like this amended to include how this type of thing is handled at the company as a whole (eg top-down, global policy as opposed to varying by individual teams/managers) - like a "remote-friendly" ranking scale, or maybe a "Joel test".
My current employer would lose a lot of employees if they did that. People are already super stoked for when they can finally stop doing this remote work thing and be back at the office full-time. Not all, but a lot. They'll also lose people if they go back to "remote cannot work, you cannot do part-time remote", so they'll have the option to do a little bit of remote work, but set up in a way that makes it unviable in practice (e.g. meetings spread out over the whole week and held in a way that makes remote participation impossible)
I'm not sure it's correct to say "remote first" for Facebook. IIRC, they're just giving the option for trusted employees, not hiring straight out of college for remote.
I don't know nothing about US law, but in Europe it's very common that in your second job legally you can work only part-time, so it's 60h weeks beetween jobs at most.
Not yet sorry, pretty busy doing other stuff but if this becomes helpful and interesting to people I will look into adding this feature! Thanks for the recommendation
Posted this three hours beforehand with the same format (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23265445). Would've been nice to see an attributable comment, but at least some people will make use of the information.
[+] [-] xoxoy|5 years ago|reply
Also Facebook’s admission that salary will be tied to cost of living wherever you choose to live sets a bad precedent. Anyone who thought they could just keep their Bay Area salary is going to be disappointed, and it gives cover to every other company thinking of going remote to do the same.
I’m also wondering how easy it would be to change jobs once you go remote. The benefit of being in the Bay is that the number of companies is so high that it makes it easy to interview if you’re looking for a change. While possible to interview remotely it’s much more difficult since the number of companies open to that is still small.
[+] [-] throwaway4715|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avalys|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] guessmyname|5 years ago|reply
Facebook didn’t set this precedent, GitLab did with their Salary Calculator years ago [1].
[1] https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/total-rewards/compensation...
[+] [-] acwan93|5 years ago|reply
It feels like that wouldn’t change even after COVID-19. Partial remote work is definitely coming and I hope it’s permanent, but needing to be at HQ on a semi-regular basis doesn’t seem like it would go away. It’s also probably why the LA-SF airline routes will probably bounce back rather quickly.
[+] [-] lm28469|5 years ago|reply
But that's good, some people in sv make more money in a year than some other people make in their entire life. If this was allowed it would probably destroy so many places. Faang salary makes you a king just about anywhere in the world besides a few major cities, in my home town you could buy a flat per month and still have some money to invest somewhere else.
[+] [-] Acen|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intopieces|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dtrailin|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gregmac|5 years ago|reply
Regardless, what I really hope is that at the least this helps companies shift towards more remote-friendly culture and policies. Things like: every meeting has a conference link; one person remote, everyone remote; more async communications and decision making. If you do sit in a room together, have some empathy for remote people, and make sure you have high-quality video and audio, no tapping on the table or "side-conversations" while hovering over a mic, and make sure you have remote videos feeds visible and are sharing the screen you're discussing.
It would be great to see a list like this amended to include how this type of thing is handled at the company as a whole (eg top-down, global policy as opposed to varying by individual teams/managers) - like a "remote-friendly" ranking scale, or maybe a "Joel test".
[+] [-] jontas|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] owenwil|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisweekly|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dividedbyzero|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geoffreyy|5 years ago|reply
In the meantime, it can be accessed via https://www.notion.so/cd2571b6bd0b434f8bf2042d5fa0d6ea
[+] [-] intopieces|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geoffreyy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikhailfranco|5 years ago|reply
As long as you are productive, how would the employers know?
[+] [-] reanimated|5 years ago|reply
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