top | item 23298748

(no title)

> Even the example of hosting complexity being replaced by cloud companies seems kind of silly to me. Maybe that’s saving very small companies a sizable fraction of their engineering resources, but I really doubt it for medium or larger companies.

This might even lead to an _increase_ in demand for software engineering, since now small companies can write their own custom software cheaper and more reliable. It's called Jevons paradox.

discuss

donw|5 years ago

TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

"In economics, the Jevons Paradox occurs when technological progress or government policy increases the efficiency with which a resource is used, but the rate of consumption of that resource rises due to increasing demand."

Only tangentially related to the thread: I'm struggling to think of how government policy might increase the efficiency with which a resource is used, other than by not existing in the first place.

So, an ask: any historical examples where government policy other than deregulation has increased the efficiency with which a resource is used?

piva00|5 years ago

Here in Sweden, government policies have enabled the larger cities to be optical fiber-wired with common infrastructure so multiple companies don't have to roll out their own, not only that, the larger program is to enable a completely connected Sweden [0].

Government policies are enabling better efficiency of optical fiber infrastructure usage, without requiring multiple vendors to do the most expensive and least rewarding part of servicing internet: digging trenches for wires.

[0] https://www.government.se/496173/contentassets/afe9f1cfeaac4...

ajuc|5 years ago

> So, an ask: any historical examples where government policy other than deregulation has increased the efficiency with which a resource is used?

EU banned selling incandescent light bulbs for one example. Which increased demand for LEDs, lowered their prices, and made people switch much faster.

Almost all countries have legislation that mandates fuel usage of passanger cars has to be at most X liters per 100 km. Or at least there's an incentive system with taxes and other bills.

There are minimal standards for thermal insulation of houses.

If you call clean air and clean water a resource then most environmental regulation count.

It's very common actually - it happens every time there's a tragedy of commons and government regulates it.

bobthepanda|5 years ago

One notable example I can think of is accessibility services.

In the US, public transit must accommodate the disabled, and for some types of trips or some types of disabilities there is a totally parallel transit system that involves specialized vehicles, operators, dispatchers to efficiently route vehicles, etc. It's also a massive PITA from the rider's POV, since you have to dial a call center to schedule a day in advance and you get a time window in which the driver will show up. This system dates from the '80s, before the Internet and before taxis were mandated to be accessible.

New York City tried a pilot program in which this system was replaced by subsidizing rideshare rides, since in the 21st century all taxis are required to have accommodations for the disabled anyways and you can leverage a well-tested system of ordering rides instantly and a large fleet of vehicles. While this did reduce per trip costs from $69 to $39, the increased convenience caused ridership to also skyrocket, so it ended up being a net drain on finances. [1] http://archive.is/N3DjJ

fnord123|5 years ago

Consolidation of subway systems in London. Standardisation of rail gauges, screw threading, electrical outlets, phone networks. Basically standardisation of everything that just works and you don't notice.

Could go on... money, power grid, air traffic control, waste collection and disposal.

SuoDuanDao|5 years ago

Health insurance is a great example - a single payer system has much more bargaining power than everyone trying to negotiate for medical care at a moment when they'll die without it.

Of course, such a system is less efficient at extracting value from consumers, so I suppose your question requires an assumption as to whom a system is efficient for.

mcv|5 years ago

Health care. There, regulation makes it more accessible to more people, improves quality, and drives costs down. Deregulated health care systems are less reliable and more expensive. People who can afford it will pay anyway.

Public transport. It benefits society as a whole when people are able to move around, and if they can do so without causing massive traffic jams. Regulation, keeping prices low, and ensuring that even remote areas are reachable, make it attractive to use and will make it more usable to more people.

Labour in general; shorter work weeks and improved working conditions have improved productivity.

saberdancer|5 years ago

Not an expert, but I think this qualifies.

Government policy to improve energy efficiency (government grants to improve factory production efficiency) can lead to increase in total energy use as the factory is more profitable with better efficiency.

EU does have programs to improve efficiency in this manner.

barrkel|5 years ago

Standardisation generally increases market size which means efficiencies of scale and ability to buy the best stuff from anywhere in the larger market, rather than being stuck with local stuff that works with local standards.

Government isn't always required for standardisation but even when it's industry led, it feels like government because it's cooperative, which means committees, votes, etc.

sobani|5 years ago

> any historical examples where government policy other than deregulation has increased the efficiency with which a resource is used?

Not really an example, but any government policy that deals with a tragedy of the commons situation.

Take for example the NW Atlantic cod fishery: "In the summer of 1992, when the Northern Cod biomass fell to 1% of earlier levels [...]" [0] I'm sure that if Canada, the US and Greenland had come together and determined a fishing quota, those fishermen would still have a job today. Instead they were so 'efficient' that there was nothing left for them to catch.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_north...

bontaq|5 years ago

> So, an ask: any historical examples where government policy other than deregulation has increased the efficiency with which a resource is used?

I would say there are examples around. For example, the numerous dams and levees we enjoy. Getting wrecked by a flood is not very efficient. Non-navigable rivers are not efficient.

marcosdumay|5 years ago

Jevon was working on fuel consumption. There has been plenty of government regulation that improved the (average) fuel efficiency of machines, even back then when they were steam powered.

urxvtcd|5 years ago

I'm not sure if that answers your question, but building wider, faster roads doesn't reduce traffic. People just drive more.

ComodoHacker|5 years ago

Phone charging cables?

AlexCoventry|5 years ago

Fun fact about Jevons: He put forth one of the first prime factorization challenges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stanley_Jevons#Jevons'...