How does anyone think this is a good idea? It should be clear which news site I am reading when I'm reading an article. Otherwise, how do I know which bias to apply? On iOS, the title bar says "google.com" whether I'm reading an article from CNN.com or WashingtonExaminer.com.
Of all the anti-competitive actions google has taken around search results, AMP is by far the worst. I hope they get smacked down for it in the upcoming anti-trust lawsuit. And kudos to Apple for refusing to change the URL bar like Google does on Android.
I couldn't agree more that AMP is terrible. I do everything I can to avoid it. Using DuckDuckGo certainly helps, but I will still occasionally stumble on an AMP site. I've created a hosts block list to help me avoid AMP as much as possible. It currently has 3,569 unique domains (works great with a PiHole!). I'm really concerned about Chrome's 'signed exchanges' where they can fake the URL completely. I hope Firefox will never support it.
A while back on one of the AMP discussions here, someone from Google weighed in. They said the data was clear: users not only accept it, they love AMP.
I asked how they knew that, because if it was, say, just tracking how many people tried the 2-3 tap process to get to the original URL compared to how many people just engaged whatever you showed them, then the data might be showing you something else (and in fact, I wasn't clear how you'd get from accept to love in any other way than a focus group or survey).
No response. Not clear if that's because revealing data would run afoul of internal confidential disclosure, or because this basically hadn't been thought through.
> Apple for refusing to change the URL bar like Google does on Android.
Apple has its own problems with the URL bar -- they keep the domain but drop the rest of the URL. Not as bad as replacing the domain, but not great.
>Of all the anti-competitive actions google has taken around search results, AMP is by far the worst. I hope they get smacked down for it in the upcoming anti-trust lawsuit.
This reminds me of the EU Internet Explorer lawsuit, which was peanuts compared to what Google is doing right now. Between Google Search, Chrome, Android, Youtube, Gmail, Google Maps, Google Docs, AMP and likely 5 more things I forgot, they've stealth-grabbed so much of the internet, it's not even funny. At least force them to split off their ad/datahoarding businesses.
So how long until AMP is exploited in a wide range phishing campaign? I know that it is getting harder and harder to distinguish phishing emails from non-phishing emails, but this move is not helping at all. It clearly helps google though.
The annoying thing is, average user will not notice and/or care.
Maybe they are trying to push their signed exchanges / "AMP real URL"[1]? Last I understood, Firefox says they won't support it, ever. Apple is less vocal about it, but doesn't appear to be working it.
>I hope they get smacked down for it in the upcoming anti-trust lawsuit.
I wonder if the outcome of the lawsuit will be a grab bag of concessions, such as abandoning AMP, and, say, adding the ability to fully delete Google Apps from Android rather than doing a mere factory reset, making opt-out of interest based ads easier, and things of that nature.
Lots of people were also convinced Google wouldn’t go down that route and would be dismissive of criticism.
I feel like when a company grows to a certain size, we have to drop the “assume good faith” outlook we give to small businesses and individuals and take on “assume bad faith” instead.
The worst thing I've seen recently is amp URLs for reddit threads. It's one bad thing (new reddit UI) wrapped in a worse thing (AMP), and getting back to classic reddit takes a lot of gymnastics. The stupid part is that the amp page is indistinguishable from the (new) reddit page (the AMP page comes complete with the "download our app" popup). So I don't see how it's providing any speed/experience benefit.
I agree that AMP is a major attack on the internet, not to mention the fact that it makes it way slower [1] and hard to understand what you're browsing. The worst part is that my friends send me AMP links all the time even though I use DDG to avoid this stuff.
Wikipedia says that Amp first started appearing in search results in February of 2016. Some random websites tell me the average Google product death happens about 4 years after it launches (not counting anything that hasn't been killed at all and with some huge error bars). So we should expect AMP to be abandoned sometime between now and never.
I got a new computer (Mac Mini) last week and, as the ritual usually goes, I opened Safari and was about to type “google.com/chrome”, then stopped myself and went to “getfirefox.com” instead. It’s been a while since I gave FF a serious look, and so far I haven’t felt like I’m missing anything.
Next up, I need to change my default search engine to DDG.
What’s a good privacy-oriented, web-based email service? I’ve heard of ProtonMail but haven’t used it.
I switched all my default search to DuckDuckGo a few months ago because of stuff like this. No regrets here. If you haven't tried it recently, give it a shot. It's gotten tons better in the past few years. Once you get used to it, it's as good as Google search.
Hi all! I'm an engineer who worked on this feature. I can't speak to the general concerns about AMP, but I can say that we didn't remove the original url here intentionally - we actually never added it to the Images version. Sorry for the oversight, we're working on bringing it back now!
When we engaged the AMP team early in it's lifecycle to try and dissuade Google from it's course, it was very apparent that the AMP team, and especially it's lead, Malte Ubl, strongly believe that Google is the web, and AMP is the only way to "save" the web from being app-ized by things like Facebook Instant Articles, which seems to be the existential threat Google is scared of.: https://www.facebook.com/facebookmedia/solutions/instant-art...
Obviously, the AMP team does not, in any way, believe the web needs to be saved from Google.
It's been a while since I read the AMP project website, but my impression was that it was written by people who drank a lot of the Kool-Aid. There's probably a lot of people working there who believe that AMP is good, but we can't discount the compliance created by the exorbitant pay and prestige of working at Google.
I've stopped using Google Chrome and Google Search. The only time I use Google Search now is when DuckDuckGo doesn't quite deliver and then I do so using an incognito window. Next step will be to ditch Gmail, and then Google Cloud & Firebase.
This might sound silly coming from a lone developer in South Africa, but my experience is that we live in the future, and developers with a mass intuition is rarely wrong. If the trend continues, then in 10 years' time this will be the popular view.
My unpopular opinion. I love AMP. Mobile internet for me ( maybe on worse devices ), was becoming a non-thing for me. AMP let's me check the news again.
My opinion might be because I don't have much understanding of it as a framework, but from a non power user perspective, I've found the UX to be amazing.
For me, the UX is terrible on mobile. On my device it breaks the auto-hide behavior of the chrome address bar - normally when you scroll down the address bar hides, but with AMP only the thin AMP bar hides when scrolling down. On some websites they only display a portion of the website content on AMP (ex. Reddit, although it seems like they have fixed this now), so to see all of the website content I have to click out of the AMP page to view the full page, and then click again to expand whatever content I was trying to view in the first place. And when I want to view the original web page I have to click this little "i" icon to reveal the actual web page link rather than them just putting a link to the original web page in the amp header directly.
For anyone on the fence about using DuckDuckGo instead of Google, if you don't find what you're looking for, it's easy to revert to a Google search by typing "!google" with your query.
DDG has improved a lot with time, so I almost never fall back to Google anymore.
For some technical searches that DDG can't find, I find codeseek.com is better than both Google and DDG
if typing "!google" is too much of a hassle "!g" also works. you can also do pretty much any letter and it will search another service from bing to yahoo to images to maps to wikipedia to whatever.
Previously I'd considered AMP a storm in a teacup. Now I think it's enough that I'll switch my mobile device to DDG, something I thought I'd never say.
For some reason on my iPhone AMP pages just don't fit on the screen. Maybe it's because I have a large default zoom/font. But this actually makes them unreadable because pinch-to-zoom is almost always disabled. I have a bookmark workaround for that but honestly I don't think it's ever worked.
Only recently did I discover a workaround for this: on Safari you can force touch to bring up a preview of the original site then click on it to bring that up.
If this change breaks that functionality then something has to change. That could be by using a browser to pretend to be a desktop browser or it could be DDG. I'm not sure yet.
Why do I, as a user, not have the ability to opt out of this horrible broken mess?
I'm all for having Web pages that render fast. I really hope for Google's sake that rendering speed alone is what affects ranking and there isn't some boost for AMP directly because that has anticompetitive written all over it. It would be forcing sites to adopt AMP or suffer downranking (to be fair, companies are typically terrible at designing fast-rendering websites).
So if if DDG gets me out of AMP and I can somehow set it so I get Google search results by default (instead of Bing) without using !g on every search then honestly at this point, I'm in.
[+] [-] TechBro8615|5 years ago|reply
Of all the anti-competitive actions google has taken around search results, AMP is by far the worst. I hope they get smacked down for it in the upcoming anti-trust lawsuit. And kudos to Apple for refusing to change the URL bar like Google does on Android.
[+] [-] lightswitch05|5 years ago|reply
https://www.github.developerdan.com/hosts/
[+] [-] wwweston|5 years ago|reply
A while back on one of the AMP discussions here, someone from Google weighed in. They said the data was clear: users not only accept it, they love AMP.
I asked how they knew that, because if it was, say, just tracking how many people tried the 2-3 tap process to get to the original URL compared to how many people just engaged whatever you showed them, then the data might be showing you something else (and in fact, I wasn't clear how you'd get from accept to love in any other way than a focus group or survey).
No response. Not clear if that's because revealing data would run afoul of internal confidential disclosure, or because this basically hadn't been thought through.
> Apple for refusing to change the URL bar like Google does on Android.
Apple has its own problems with the URL bar -- they keep the domain but drop the rest of the URL. Not as bad as replacing the domain, but not great.
[+] [-] nothis|5 years ago|reply
This reminds me of the EU Internet Explorer lawsuit, which was peanuts compared to what Google is doing right now. Between Google Search, Chrome, Android, Youtube, Gmail, Google Maps, Google Docs, AMP and likely 5 more things I forgot, they've stealth-grabbed so much of the internet, it's not even funny. At least force them to split off their ad/datahoarding businesses.
[+] [-] ehsankia|5 years ago|reply
They don't.
> Just heard from the Image Search team that this is an oversight and they'll add the feature! Sorry about that and thanks for the report!
https://twitter.com/cramforce/status/1265688067706245120
[+] [-] A4ET8a8uTh0|5 years ago|reply
The annoying thing is, average user will not notice and/or care.
[+] [-] tyingq|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2019/04/instant-loading-am...
[+] [-] ravenstine|5 years ago|reply
People have been saying this for years, and it never happens.
[+] [-] princevegeta89|5 years ago|reply
It makes everything harder and confuses deeplinking, sharing, identifying sites and general navigation between pages.
[+] [-] glenstein|5 years ago|reply
I wonder if the outcome of the lawsuit will be a grab bag of concessions, such as abandoning AMP, and, say, adding the ability to fully delete Google Apps from Android rather than doing a mere factory reset, making opt-out of interest based ads easier, and things of that nature.
[+] [-] TechticSolution|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marvindanig|5 years ago|reply
Isn't Malte Ubl one of the developer/architect behind it? I could be wrong about this but I remember reading his notes/thoughts on AMP last year.
[+] [-] WhyNotHugo|5 years ago|reply
I really hope this AMP thing never becomes anything mainstream, it's an atrocious attempt at monopolizing the internet as a whole.
[+] [-] stevenjohns|5 years ago|reply
I feel like when a company grows to a certain size, we have to drop the “assume good faith” outlook we give to small businesses and individuals and take on “assume bad faith” instead.
[+] [-] dgellow|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] 0x006A|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AlexandrB|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gtf21|5 years ago|reply
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18893808
[+] [-] tyingq|5 years ago|reply
[1] Via things like taking over swipe motions and the back button on carousel launched pages, for example.
[+] [-] a1369209993|5 years ago|reply
Because Google only discontinues useful services, and AMP is actively harmful (aka of negative usefulness)?
[+] [-] jgalt212|5 years ago|reply
best and most succinct description that I've heard.
[+] [-] chadlavi|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CobrastanJorji|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zenexer|5 years ago|reply
> Just heard from the Image Search team that this is an oversight and they'll add the feature! Sorry about that and thanks for the report!
[0]: https://twitter.com/cramforce/status/1265688067706245120
[+] [-] TheKarateKid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ralmidani|5 years ago|reply
Next up, I need to change my default search engine to DDG.
What’s a good privacy-oriented, web-based email service? I’ve heard of ProtonMail but haven’t used it.
[+] [-] psanford|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrischattin|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rsanheim|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] googleimagesguy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Grimm1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thebouv|5 years ago|reply
How do they perceive the work that they're doing?
Do they see the harm it causes, or do they only believe in the promise of the good it gives?
[+] [-] ocdtrekkie|5 years ago|reply
Obviously, the AMP team does not, in any way, believe the web needs to be saved from Google.
[+] [-] ravenstine|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pgt|5 years ago|reply
I've stopped using Google Chrome and Google Search. The only time I use Google Search now is when DuckDuckGo doesn't quite deliver and then I do so using an incognito window. Next step will be to ditch Gmail, and then Google Cloud & Firebase.
This might sound silly coming from a lone developer in South Africa, but my experience is that we live in the future, and developers with a mass intuition is rarely wrong. If the trend continues, then in 10 years' time this will be the popular view.
[+] [-] infinityplus1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] markosaric|5 years ago|reply
How to fight back against Google AMP https://markosaric.com/google-amp/
And the original thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21712733
[+] [-] tyingq|5 years ago|reply
Surely a terrible idea though. AMP already has a PR problem.
[+] [-] kittiepryde|5 years ago|reply
My opinion might be because I don't have much understanding of it as a framework, but from a non power user perspective, I've found the UX to be amazing.
[+] [-] GhostVII|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bahamut|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freedomben|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benja123|5 years ago|reply
I mean if AMP effectively disguises the original URL could it not be used for phishing?
To be clear I know very little about AMP and if this is the case
Regardless it just adds complexity and makes it that much harder to teach people what is an acceptable URL when it comes to email links etc...
[+] [-] typenil|5 years ago|reply
DDG has improved a lot with time, so I almost never fall back to Google anymore.
For some technical searches that DDG can't find, I find codeseek.com is better than both Google and DDG
[+] [-] npmaile|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koheripbal|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fgkramer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alextheparrot|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cletus|5 years ago|reply
For some reason on my iPhone AMP pages just don't fit on the screen. Maybe it's because I have a large default zoom/font. But this actually makes them unreadable because pinch-to-zoom is almost always disabled. I have a bookmark workaround for that but honestly I don't think it's ever worked.
Only recently did I discover a workaround for this: on Safari you can force touch to bring up a preview of the original site then click on it to bring that up.
If this change breaks that functionality then something has to change. That could be by using a browser to pretend to be a desktop browser or it could be DDG. I'm not sure yet.
Why do I, as a user, not have the ability to opt out of this horrible broken mess?
I'm all for having Web pages that render fast. I really hope for Google's sake that rendering speed alone is what affects ranking and there isn't some boost for AMP directly because that has anticompetitive written all over it. It would be forcing sites to adopt AMP or suffer downranking (to be fair, companies are typically terrible at designing fast-rendering websites).
So if if DDG gets me out of AMP and I can somehow set it so I get Google search results by default (instead of Bing) without using !g on every search then honestly at this point, I'm in.