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Linux Sucks 2020

100 points| zerof1l | 5 years ago |lbry.tv | reply

94 comments

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[+] azangru|5 years ago|reply
Guys, looking through the comments, I am afraid you are being way too serious. Bryan Lunduke has been giving Linux Sucks talks at LinuxFest NorthWest for many years; they are intended as humorous and good fun.
[+] itvision|5 years ago|reply
Didn't he promise a few years ago that he'd stop releasing this video?
[+] square_usual|5 years ago|reply
For others like me who were wondering what the site hosting this video is, it's apparently a peer-to-peer file host with some blockchain thrown in to make it a marketplace. You can read their "About" page here: https://lbry.com/what

(The about page was frustratingly hard to get to, I had to navigate through four pages before I got there.)

[+] flobosg|5 years ago|reply
This is mentioned in the release announcement (https://lunduke.com/posts/2020-05-28/):

> For the first week, Linux Sucks 2020 is only available (for free) via LBRY. (After one week it will become available everywhere else as well.) LBRY is a great fit for Linux Sucks – Open source and DRM-Free.

> You can watch Linux Sucks 2020, right now, the following ways:

> - straight from the LBRY.tv website

> - or (even better) you can install the LBRY application to download and play the DRM-Free video

[+] MaxBarraclough|5 years ago|reply
I second the comments over at [0]: it's not terribly clear what they're going for, or why they're offering a client to download. Is this meant to be a web-based solution, or not? That 'what' page you linked is just awful. Endless rambling.

Their web video hosting seems to work well though.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13928774

[+] syradar|5 years ago|reply
If you scroll down to the bottom of "modern" web sites the about link is in the footer.
[+] lerax|5 years ago|reply
Brian makes me laugh everytime. Although the humorous critics that he do, almost point he raises there is an underlying truth on it. Linux Sucks not entirely, but some parts sucks so hard. I use Linux daily for almost ten years, and oh hell, it's pretty much better than Windows, but there is no way to deny the problems on it.

But Linux is getting better! <3

[+] gridlockd|5 years ago|reply
I think Linux is getting worse, but Windows and Mac OS are getting worse faster, so it feels like progress.
[+] 2OEH8eoCRo0|5 years ago|reply
This is the first Linux Sucks that I have seen and although it's humorous it doesn't seem like satire. The issues he humorously points out are real issues with the Linux desktop today.

I've been saying for a long time that one of the beauties of Linux is that anyone and everyone can do their own thing but that can also be a weakness. You have thousands of incredible talented developers doing their own thing. If you piss off some of the talent on your own projects they'll leave and do their own thing. That's beautiful in a way but it does weaken the Linux desktop as a whole.

A benevolent dictator / vision is counterintuitive to the OSS spirit but it's priceless IMO.

[+] sergeykish|5 years ago|reply
That's scary idea.

As a Linux user I am a refugee from Windows. Expat now. They have dictators there, they've got resources, they switch development tools one after another. But somehow they failed. I knew nothing else but I could not stand that anymore.

So I switched and found my promised land, my distribution, my community. That was 12 years ago. I believe each distribution, each application starts from someone with vision. People flock if they like it. Top down approach usually harms - pulse audio and systemd community split still unresolved.

> my view of history says that mistakes made by a leader (or made in a leader's name) are amplified by the numbers who follow without question.

Frank Herbert on Dune

[+] tinnet|5 years ago|reply
As much as i like lunduke usually, i find it a bit unreflected to just say "we are stupid for banning our founders" without acknowledging anything they might have done wrong. I do agree that the pitchforks approach to public disagreements should not be our (or anybodies) default. But "leave our founders alone" is not a policy I'd personally subscribe too either.

Also vaguely poking fun at therapy as if it was a punishment for something is just plain immature.

[+] hs86|5 years ago|reply
One of his main complaints is "People who promote Linux, don't run Linux" and he specifically focuses on those who hold Linux-related talks at conferences on devices that don't run Linux on the desktop.

Can you look at https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/ and easily point out those companies, that have a crucial business stake on Linux on the desktop? I can't.

Most people, who are paid to work on Linux and its surrounding ecosystem, are working for companies that are interested on Linux on servers / the cloud and I don't think that it is fair to criticize them for not joining the idealistic movement of bringing Linux onto more desktops.

[+] kerny|5 years ago|reply
When you see majority of consultants from the biggest Linux company (that also focuses on desktop Linux) using Macs for their work, you know that Linux on desktops won't happen anytime soon.
[+] Avamander|5 years ago|reply
In my opinion, this list is much much better: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...
[+] ArchD|5 years ago|reply
What a dose of reality for anyone yearning for Linux desktop to succeed. I use Linux at work and at home because of the configurability and security and because our servers run Linux but I absolutely do not enjoy tinkering around when things don't work. Although I can usually figure out a way or workaround, it's such a waste of time and life is short.

I wouldn't mind paying as much for a Linux distro that just works as I would for Windows 10, or even double. But one can only dream. I've filed and commented on quite a few bugs only to have them ignored. The paid support for Ubuntu has a minimal order size of 10, so it's not really an option especially since I don't know how well it works. I wonder how big the market is for a paid Linux distro that just works.

Given the general user-unfriendliness of Linux desktop, I can see why so many people use Macbooks who work on Linux. Maybe the servers they work on run Linux. Can't really call the individuals 'dumb' though, like what the video does. At most the Linux 'organization' on the whole comprising these individuals, if there's such a thing, is 'dumb'.

[+] itvision|5 years ago|reply
There's some serious work put into it.
[+] Icyphox|5 years ago|reply
You clearly don't understand Linux Sucks.
[+] tux3|5 years ago|reply
About the systemd logo, the weird rewind symbol in brackets, I think it's meant to be the [ OK] that linux (used to) print on boot for every line.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

[+] maxfromua|5 years ago|reply
"Arch users are vegans of the Linux world" - excellent comparison :)
[+] fbn79|5 years ago|reply
I think was Churchill that said "Linux is the worst form of operating system, except for all the others."
[+] gridlockd|5 years ago|reply
...in the alternative history timeline where Churchill was the communist and Stalin the tory.
[+] LockAndLol|5 years ago|reply
Linux devs running Macs is definitely a thing. There are so many pro opensource people running Macs and it just boggles my mind.

Just why?

[+] MaxBarraclough|5 years ago|reply
I'm unable to reply to 29athrowaway so I'll post this at the top level:

Regarding backward compatibility (discussed around 32:00 in the video), do solutions like AppImage and Flatpak work for the examples he shows (the three proprietary games that were ported to Linux)?

[+] TheSpiceIsLife|5 years ago|reply
Everything sucks, 2020 edition:

If you use any complex system enough, whether that’s hardware based, software based, or people based, you’ll eventually get come up against all the pain-points.

Especially if you’re tired and / or under time constraints.

[+] MaxBarraclough|5 years ago|reply
Sure, nothing is perfect. So what? That doesn't mean his points are invalid.

It's clear the guy isn't just some clueless Linux-hater.

[+] floriol|5 years ago|reply
I kind of like this guy, as in he is funny. But seeing the previous linux sucks videos as well, I must say that he most definitely don't have a too deep knowledge of linux - and it is kind of mean to call Linux people dumb who advocate for flatpak over appimage, especially that he don't really understand the problem at hand. (though imo nix is the only one solving the problem properly)
[+] itvision|5 years ago|reply
Linux is not winning on mobile in any shape or form. All mobile vendors use a highly-customized Linux kernel which has nothing to do with mainline and aside from the kernel, there's not much to write home about. So, maybe Bryan could have been a little bit more honest from the get go.
[+] zozbot234|5 years ago|reply
> Linux is not winning on mobile in any shape or form. All mobile vendors use a highly-customized Linux kernel which has nothing to do with mainline

That's not a "Linux on mobile" problem; it's a "Linux on anything embedded" problem, and steps are being taken to address it. You can run a close-to-mainline kernel already on some devices, it's just not the default. And work is ongoing to also port common non-mobile Linux userland setups to mobile, so that the same stack will eventually be useful for both. A lot of non-trivial work is involved.

[+] Avamander|5 years ago|reply
I already disagree with the first reason. Poor backwards compatibility is a good thing, it does not let tech debt to accumulate too much.

AppImage and containers are just for hiding that tech debt.

[+] AnIdiotOnTheNet|5 years ago|reply
> Poor backwards compatibility is a good thing

I'm going to try and phrase this as nicely as I can: I fervently disagree and sincerely hope your opinion is shared only by the smallest minority possible.

The point of computers is to be a tool for people to make their lives better. Being able to run software is better than not being able to run it. The more things a computer can do, the better.

Also, AppImage is great.

[+] felixguendling|5 years ago|reply
I don't think that the main purpose of AppImage and containers is to hide technical debt. Being able to package an application 1x to run on many Linux distributions is a huge plus - notably if you don't want to waste resources supporting Ubuntu, RHEL, Gentoo, Arch, etc. by maintaing a separate package for each and every Linux package manager out there.

The same is true for Docker: having a consistent environment is just very useful.

[+] shlant|5 years ago|reply
if you just care about having the most perfectly maintained, bug-free system then yes, poor backwards compatibility is a good thing, but if you are talking about market share and general acceptance of a system (which he is addressing in the video) then backwards compatibility is a pretty significant selling point for much of the general population.
[+] mattrick|5 years ago|reply
In regards to search interest, I have a feeling that specific distributions (specifically "Ubuntu") have replaced the use of "Linux" in Google searches.
[+] talkingtab|5 years ago|reply
Click bait headline. Why is this kind of sensationalist title allowed on HN?

edit: I don't object to the content, but the headline.

[+] MaxBarraclough|5 years ago|reply
I'm not sure I'd call it 'clickbait' exactly. The title works well as an intentionally irreverent name for a well intentioned series by someone who is clearly very serious about Linux. Not an ideal fit as a Hacker News title though.
[+] chris_wot|5 years ago|reply
No, no it's not. That is literally the talk he has done for many, many years.
[+] sergeykish|5 years ago|reply
TLDR Linux sucks because people do not care much about OS anymore [0], default setup does not run old games, there is no Steve Jobs like dictator, it is sponsored.

[0] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=linux,ub...

-----

From my perspective these are reason Linux rocks

1. Yay! With web I do not care as much about software, I am free to use Linux.

2. Yay! Even for running old apps on Linux there is solution.

3. Yay! I am not a serf, I can move to other distros. And there are a lot of them.

4. Yay! It would be impossible to have such hardware support without sponsors and hired developers. You've done a great job, thank you.

There are a lot of Linux users - some hate Microsoft with passion, some curse Poettering, some crave world domination - you've got a place too!

There is so much casual media attention now:

* Linux Gaming FINALLY Doesn't SUCK! Sep 22, 2018 (2 000 000 views) [1]

* Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid - Noob's Guide to Linux Gaming, Apr 9, 2019 (2 000 000 views) [2]

Steam games just work thanks to https://www.protondb.com/ (wine basically).

I was amazed that MX Linux intro has 120 000 views [3]

And finally, there was one technical question. Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) is developers setup - evergreen /include, /lib. I can recompile all installed packages. I've compiled latest Firefox on Linux. I've compiled Firefox on Windows, it is quite different experience. I've compiled Firefox 3.6 on Linux a month ago, that's different experience too - patching source, requires old pango version. This setup suits me.

Would it be interesting to have make dependencies as they were in Firefox 3.6 days? Absolutely. Does it drug Linux back? No, this case is minor. Same with old binaries. Anyone who cares enough can find or create such distro.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJUphbYnpg

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6FePZoNgE

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVHA4l4Zrc

[+] tsar9x|5 years ago|reply
> 1. Yay! With web I do not care as much about software, I am free to use Linux.

This. Web and electron apps is the greatest thing that happened to "linux desktop". I know that they sucks and are slow, but without it I would not be able to use linux for work.