[throwlaplace]

btw in florida the voters literally overwhelmingly voted for an amendment that re-enfranchised felons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Florida_Amendment_4

and republicans are still trying to subvert it by sneaking in restitution as a prerequisite. it was challenged in the courts, overturned, and now appealed

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/27/844297011/voting-rights-for-h...

check out this tweet

https://twitter.com/mrddmia/status/1264687609995026437

Edit: what exactly am I getting downvoted for? Did I post something that wasn't factually correct? Did I use foul language? Did I antagonize?

[JarlUlvi]

You're not explaining the other side of the story.

Many felons are convicted and owe fees to their victims, or to the govt. If you commit a violent crime, or a financial crime, there can be a financial penalty. Many of the felons that want to vote, never paid back their victims, or the state, for the crimes they were committed.

The Florida proposition "restored the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation"

Now, they want to vote, but still haven't compensated their victims, which was a part of the sentence, based on a lawful conviction.

[saagarjha]

I still don’t understand why we deny felons the right to vote while they are serving their sentence, so extending this to nonpayment of fines seems even more arbitrary.

[baddox]

What does that have anything to do with whether someone ought to have representation in the very government that created and enforces the laws they were found to have violated?

[kerkeslager]

You haven't actually presented another side to the story, you've just cited a legitimate, but completely irrelevant, concern.

If people aren't paying their debts, garnish their wages, seize their assets, or if they're flagrantly avoiding paying back debts, put them back in jail--you know, normal things that we already do which actually get people to pay back their debts. Failure to pay reparations is a legitimate concern, but it's not relevant to voting rights.

Let's not pretend this is about reparations. It's about disfranchising people.

[yardie]

The state doesn't know how much they owe because they weren't all that concerned before. Also, the Florida DOC has a nasty habit of inventing fines and fees.

According to you it should be simple. Whatever the sentencing judge has put in the sentence is the sentence. But that has proven not to be the case. The governor wants the DOC to find any and all unpaid fines and fees. And they want to be allowed years to resolve it.

The judge looked at the excuses the DOCs counsel was offering and quickly swatted it down. An ex-convict that has satisfied the terms of his sentence as it is written on the sentencing docket has no reason not to have their rights restored.

[throwlaplace]

False. I'm drawing attention to the amendment and what the will of the people was/is and efforts made to subvert that will. The amendment as on the ballot said nothing about requiring money as a prerequisite. That's what Florida voted for: returning freed felons their rights. To ascribe some other interpretation to "terms" is to subvert the will of the people of Florida.

Ultimately the courts will decide whether the legal language "terms" includes fines and restitution. Seeing as these felons are free and fines are a civil matter I don't know how the courts could find that such things are part of their criminal sentence.

Edit: also btw I linked to reputable sources. I didn't obscure anything or omit anything.

It's right there on wiki:

>However, by mid-2019 Republican Governor DeSantis signed a bill into law which originated in the Florida Senate, SB 7066, which required that "people with felony records pay 'all fines and fees' associated with their sentence prior to the restoration of their voting rights"

It's a post facto qualifier. If fines were implied by the initial amendment this bill would be unnecessary.

[chrisco255]

How dare they make felons pay restitution to victims of violent crimes before voting.

[geofft]

Indeed. Really, felons currently serving their sentence should be able to vote. It's your only protection against the government throwing its political opponents in prison.

If we had a magical, objective, 100% accurate way of determining whether judgments are fair and punishments are appropriate, then maybe it would make sense to suspend the voting rights of criminals. But we don't, and the only check on whether the criminal justice system is doing the right thing is the popular ballot. Allowing the criminal justice system to disenfranchise people is an obvious loophole.

Besides, what are we worried about? That criminals would vote to legalize their own crimes? If more than half the population are criminals, it's not clear that any sort of government is going to work at all....

[charlesu]

The law conditions votes on fines or fees related to their sentence. There is no system for actually determining what’s owed, so some felons who could vote may not register for fear of committing another crime.

Now that you’re aware of this issue, I’m certain that you agree that conditioning voting on fines and fees related to a sentence is wrong.

[throwlaplace]

How dare they indeed? It wasn't in the amendment. No one voted for that.