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Cloudflare TV

696 points| eastdakota | 5 years ago |blog.cloudflare.com | reply

261 comments

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[+] trog|5 years ago|reply
I'm a generally technical person and I'm simply flat out uninterested in video content - the stuff that will be on this sounds broadly interesting to me but I'd rather read it in article format.

I understand video "performs" well in a lot of contexts (and thus is of particular interest to marketing people) but I am always surprised when content targeted broadly towards the technical community is done in a video-first manner. I know a few other people that feel the same, but I can only assume that Cloudflare have done some research on this and figured out that we're in the minority, and there is enough of a technical audience that would prefer to watch this kind of stuff than read it.

I know it's a lot of effort (although maybe automated transcription tools have simplified this?) but it would be awesome if text transcripts were made available of some of this content for the weirdos like me out there :)

[+] ShamelessC|5 years ago|reply
I've noticed certain communities that live on the edge of tech-savvy do this a lot. In particular emulator and jailbreak communities for video game consoles refuse to keep up-to-date text guides on things. Everything is done on YouTube which is such a terrible format when you need to follow 30-step lists and pause to click on many links throughout the process to download software, firmware and exploits.
[+] JacobAldridge|5 years ago|reply
I’m much the same ... and I’m saying that as someone who trained as a TV journalist, once hosted his own tv show, put out 134 weekly episodes of a business video series, and even now focuses on putting out 1-2 videos (on businesses <500 staff in this economy) each week.

As a creator, it’s laziness - I can produce a video in far less time than a quality article. As a consumer, I’ve started watching a few more video channels to learn from others - but would much prefer and retain information from the written word.

The compromise I’m approaching: YouTube do a pretty good job of automatically creating subtitles. These are readily formatted so I can add punctuation, edit, and polish into something readable (and searchable).

That also provides a text transcript!

[+] eastdakota|5 years ago|reply
Why for the last 10 years we’ve invested so much in https://blog.cloudflare.com. I’d think of this as supplementing that, and allowing you to interact live with many of the blog’s authors, rather than replacing it.
[+] xeromal|5 years ago|reply
I'm a dev and enjoy my articles too, but I'd say I perform better with videos in some domains. The first one to come to mind if mechanic work. If I want to learn how to change a mass inflow sensor, it's way easier to watch the job be performed than to read a description, even with pictures.
[+] nindalf|5 years ago|reply
I'm not interested in video content either. But in recent years I've found that some people respond much better to it.

Anecdotally, it seems like every student on /r/programmerhumor got through their CS degree with the help of algorithms videos on youtube. Despite having trouble understanding the accent, they found it much easier to learn from the video than the book. I prefer the book, even though I would have had no trouble understanding the accent in which these videos are apparently made.

My partner is the same. Finds it difficult to concentrate on a textbook, but easy when it's people talking. I'm not wired this way, and I don't understand why others are wired differently from you and me, but I do accept that it works for them.

The consensus Hacker News would have you think that plain text is the pinnacle of human communication because it's searchable, copy-able, skimmable etc. But many people feel differently. Cloudflare.tv is for them.

[+] dkdk8283|5 years ago|reply
Text is important because it’s searchable - the fascination with zoom and video/audio communication makes documenting and finding knowledge so much harder. This is a problem for me at work, too.
[+] stubish|5 years ago|reply
Its a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, where people who prefer one type of communication channel will engage mostly with people who engage with $CHANNEL, eventually ending up with the idea that 'everyone uses $CHANNEL'. Like Facebook, pod casts, web forum d'jour, and probably going back in time to Usenet, IRC, Email and maybe even the telegraph.

I don't see subtitles (back to the 80s of accessibility), but it does have playback speed so you can skim and claw back some information bandwidth.

[+] ma2rten|5 years ago|reply
I recently started learning React for a side project I'm working on (in my day job I have more of a machine learning/backend role). There are a ton of coding videos for react. I never understood why people are watching these kind of coding videos, if you can get the same information much more efficiently in text form.

However, I ended up finding a use for them. I've been watching them at the end of the day when I was too tired to do any more coding work. Instead of wasting my time on YouTube, I ended up learning a lot.

[+] baddox|5 years ago|reply
I’m pretty much in agreement with everything you said, but all I can think about is how even the worst video is almost certainly better than someone’s slideshow from a technical talk shared online with no transcript or other context. I’ve seen these shared quite frequently from tech conferences, and I fail to see how anyone gets any value from those things.
[+] toomanybeersies|5 years ago|reply
I'm in the same boat. I can learn by reading faster than I can watching a video (I tended to skip lectures at university for this reason). Also, often I have partial understanding of the subject already and need clarification of certain points, and it's a lot easier to skim a text and find the information I need than trying to skip through a video to find what I need.
[+] Anon4Now|5 years ago|reply
I'm mixed. I enjoy programming video tutorials, but they are often too slow and padded with non-essential and repetitive information. Unless there's a transcript, searching for a part that you need a recap of isn't much different than information retrieval from tape drives in the 60's. The best video tutorials have include a transcript and a github repo.
[+] stimpson_j_cat|5 years ago|reply
Text transcripts should be available out of a11y concerns alone
[+] reallydontask|5 years ago|reply
I'm not so sure that we're in the minority, those of us that prefer text over video. I just think that it's a lot easier to sell video than text and that subscriptions to learning services are the tech equivalent of Gym subscriptions.

I have a Linux Academy subscription and I find that the labs are really useful (they do range in quality to be fair) and that the courses are next to useless but, and this is a big but, the text content that the courses provide gives you, with the labs, probably as much as the videos.

Idk, maybe I'm doing the videos wrong or have the wrong expectations.

[+] inopinatus|5 years ago|reply
That’s an “it depends” for me. I do always want the transcript, but let’s appreciate that a competent lecturer brings a topic to life. You don’t have to be Richard Feynman, but you do have to reveal and conceptualise at a pace an informed and inquisitive brain latches onto.

Most video content is not at this level; it’s often either glibly oversimplified (content marketing), bogged down in minutiae (how-to guides), or buried under irrelevancies (what’s up guys).

There is something I’d often prefer to consume as a AV recording, and that is interviews/panel discussion. The nuances of articulation, even body language may be informative. Compare and contrast the transcript with the video at https://www.erlang-solutions.com/blog/let-s-talkconcurrency-... for example.

[+] me551ah|5 years ago|reply
Personally I prefer written content because I can pace it myself. I can skim past stuff that I already know, jump to a different section quickly, and reread complex content. You can play a video at 1.25x or 1.5x but sometimes that can be hard to understand and skipping and finding a section in a video can be time consuming.
[+] hinkley|5 years ago|reply
Videos are great for motivating me to dig into a topic, but when I actually have to apply that knowledge then I get quite frustrated.

There's really no good way for me to make a bibliography of videos. And even when you do find the bit you care about, the presentation is rarely at the speed of absorption, so you end up pausing and rewinding a lot (and sometimes, there simply is no rewind button, and jumping back 15 seconds in an hour video? forget about it.)

I recall during the dotcom boom someone discovered that there was just a little bit of unused bandwidth in TV signals and wanted to earmark it for adding hypertext to the video, so that with a smart tv you could jump to further reading on a subject. This seems like a best of both worlds situation and I was disappointed to see it go nowhere.

I wonder if there's a way to do something similar with the CC data in videos...

[+] sufyanadam|5 years ago|reply
I'm one of those people who feel the same. I'd rather read than watch.
[+] cercatrova|5 years ago|reply
It really depends. I can watch faster than I can read, at 4x video speed.
[+] tutfbhuf|5 years ago|reply
> I'm a generally technical person and I'm simply flat out uninterested in video content

There are many good videos lectures available on YouTube from Stanford, MIT and other universities. You also have student questions on tape, very much like sitting in the real lecture. Could you explain what exactly makes the content uninteresting, when it is in video format?

[+] noir_lord|5 years ago|reply
I like both, video content on fields/interests related to stuff I'm interested in is great if it doesn't require really deep focus, often I watch those at 110-150% speed.

If I'm really trying to grok material a quiet room and a book is still the best.

So it's a case of the nature of the content fitting the form of the content.

[+] cowsandmilk|5 years ago|reply
> we're in the minority, and there is enough of a technical audience that would prefer to watch this kind of stuff than read it.

Note, you can be in the vast majority and the second half of the sentence can be true. A media channel that only reaches 10% of your customer base can still make sense.

[+] Aeolun|5 years ago|reply
I think this kind of stuff would be nice to tune into the same way that I look at HN. I don’t think it’s great for targeted watching, but good for discovery.
[+] peteforde|5 years ago|reply
I'm wrong about all sorts of things, but I have a funny feeling that we're going to look back someday and see this as the first of many companies of a significant size launching something that looks just like a TV station. I can't emphasize how incredibly brilliant this is: it appears to be a perfectly curated combination of pure marketing webinar, tutorials, educational lectures and who knows what else. This is an example of a new micro-format, in the same way that the NYT won a Pulitzer for their oft-copied Snowfall. http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-fall/index.html

In an era where SEO has ruined the cozy internet, content marketing is transparent and many people just don't trust the media not to lie to them, the idea that a company like CloudFlare could task a team with essentially launching the nerd equivalent of CSPAN (if not CNN) seems to me like something a genius would come up with.

[+] hardwaresofton|5 years ago|reply
IMO this might serve two purposes -- marketing and to showcase the fact that they can run your TV station.

This might be advertisement/marketing on two levels; both consumers and large corporations that might want to host a TV station.

[+] mtberatwork|5 years ago|reply
> with essentially launching the nerd equivalent of CSPAN (if not CNN)

Maybe I'm in the minority, but at the end of working all day in front of screen doing mentally taxing programming/devops work, the last thing I want to do is come home and watch live TV of content that reminds me of work...nor do I want to spend my weekends doing that either.

[+] cm2187|5 years ago|reply
At the time where no one else watches TV anymore... I think it makes sense if they offer the programs in VOD but I don't see where on their website they do that.
[+] Nitramp|5 years ago|reply
I haven't ever really used it, but doesn't Microsoft run its own tv style video series since more than a decade?

I don't understand the format personally (I'd always take articles over video). It's probably appealing to a demographic that I'm not. But in either case, the approach is many years old.

[+] texasbigdata|5 years ago|reply
Agree. But would you pay for it?
[+] cocktailpeanuts|5 years ago|reply
at first i was very excited just hearing "cloudflare TV", but it doesn't look like this is what i was expecting.

i don't really get the point of this. it's just another live conference broadcasting platform? why would people use this instead of just broadcasting on YouTube? Maybe i'm missing something but feels like just another marketing scheme that came from someone saying "hey this coronavirus is supposed to be the fad of the day for video startups, we should do something too".

the 24/7 aspect is cool and it is this point I was excited about. I thought they would do something different, instead of building a service dedicated to a fad which is probably about to expire.

p.s.

The "online conference" angle is not a good idea. Those who say "all tech conferences will die after coronavirus" have probably never been to tech conferences. Most people go to tech conferences not to watch speeches but to network in person. And there's a big difference between networking in person and doing it online in a public place. This problem may be solved in the future, but not through a live video platform, but probably through an AR or a VR platform.

[+] mwexler|5 years ago|reply
I find video abusive to my time. To consume the content, which I assume is the author's intent, I must give up my time in whatever chunk the author chooses. But I can consume text at my own pace in multiple methods.

Tech usually prefers async, decoupled processes. Advertising and attention-for-money, however, demand a synced experience.

If I'm looking for entertainment, sure, video, audio, whatever. But if I want to learn or be informed, why should I have to waste time? If this is just the "how should creators get comped" discussion ("attention gets ads to reward content creators", etc), fine, but in a case like parent post, better use of cloudflare means more $ for them, so they probably want consumption. So, why video?

I've said this before and gotten feedback around "diff people need diff modalities to consume info" and "video can be more effective than static text". All true, which is why having text as an option is important; just video is as bad as, if not worse than, just text.

[+] faeyanpiraat|5 years ago|reply
I’ve started learning angular, and watching a couple of explaining while actually coding vids related to how angular works, tips and tricks, rxjs patterns, etc.. really helped me understand how it works.

For vids where the ppl speak slow, i up the speed to 1.25 or 1.5, which helps sometimes.

For introduction to some new tech it’s fine..

Of course I have to go actually read the docs and start coding stuff, which takes way more energy, but now the vids convinced me this worth investing my time into.

[+] mattweinberg|5 years ago|reply
I (not a Cloudflare employee) am actually being interviewed on here along with a friend, Thursday at 1pm EST: https://cloudflare.tv/schedule/2tGlq0ue3jrGuAegeq60fD

Two doctor friends and I collaborated to make a site that matches PPE donators with hospitals/nursing homes/fire departments/etc that need PPE ( https://maskaherony.com ) . Over 30,000 masks have been donated so far. It’s all volunteer-run and no money changes hands. We host it with Cloudflare Workers Sites (I built it in Jekyll). I assume that much of the interview will be my friend focusing on the medical match aspects and what she’s seeing in hospitals. I’m just the lowly tech guy, she’s the one doing the hard work and saving lives. Check it out if you can!

[+] p4bl0|5 years ago|reply
The constant comparison with MTV is weird, but fun. Here is a proposed parallel grid:

Next: tech job interviews.

Bug raiders: bug fixing live.

Pimp my web: Xzibit manages a team of front-end engineers.

Jackass: Programming drones that do stupid things.

[+] sixhobbits|5 years ago|reply
Genuinely curious,

My possibly biased perception is that people in Europe are more "internationally aware" (for lack of a better word) than those in the US. e.g. a website that is built in Europe but likely to attract international interest will include a timezone.

The schedule[0] for this just has dates and times. I have no idea when anything is, though some of it looks interesting.

Is there a "default" timezone that Americans assume on an American-centric site that doesn't actually state timezones? California?

[0] https://cloudflare.tv/schedule

[+] bawolff|5 years ago|reply
Perhaps im missing something, but the vision seems to be: imagine putting conference recording on youtube, but with a less convinent technical platform and content that's not interesting/marketing BS.

What exactly am i supposed to be excited about?

[+] oarsinsync|5 years ago|reply
> I keep reminding our team that if we're trying to follow in the footsteps of MTV — and its greatest success was "Jersey Shore" — then the bar is pretty low.

Sounds like they need a few more GenX's on their team to help them understand the real impact MTV had. I'm struggling to see a world where CFTV has even half the cultural or generational impact that MTV had.

You may not respect or value what MTV has become, but if you grew up with MTV in the 80s and 90s, you might have a better appreciation for how high the bar actually is.

[+] hitekker|5 years ago|reply
Thanks for pointing this out. A disrespect for their predecessors inclines me to believe CloudfareTV is just another corporate vanity project.
[+] ireflect|5 years ago|reply
This is really interesting and I hope it's a success. It seems like it's intended to be 80% useful and 20% tongue-in-cheek joke.

I'm skeptical that viewers will prefer this live scheduled format rather than simply posting all the videos to be viewed on-demand. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of this anachronism (and especially their 80s-era channel ID logo to go along with it) but personally I prefer to consume videos from tech conferences on-demand. [1]

It looks like they are also posting the videos for on-demand viewing in the Best-Of section, so maybe the live scheduled format is just a delightful gimmick.

[1] https://media.ccc.de is my favourite

[+] kabacha|5 years ago|reply
I'm in a constant perplex by Cloudflare. It's one of those mega corporations that seem to consist of 95% marketing and sales. Looking at the program table I can't help but have this feeling reaffirmed.

> I keep reminding our team that if we're trying to follow in the footsteps of MTV

At this point I'm commenting to be a part of one of the biggest "hey there fellow kids" events in recent tech history — lol.

[+] tortila|5 years ago|reply
> Michelle Zatlyn, Cloudflare co-founder and COO, is doing a weekly series called “Yes We Can” highlighting women entrepreneurs and debunking the myth that there are no women in tech

Did the author just come up with this myth? Personally I’ve never heard such a statement. Not trying to undermine the issue of under-representation of women, but this could’ve been worded in a better way

[+] rmason|5 years ago|reply
I think that this has awesome potential. I've asked them if they're open to individuals or groups producing a show and getting an hour on their schedule.
[+] blntechie|5 years ago|reply
Never had any video begin playing as fast as those in this. Even faster than YouTube.
[+] ironhaven|5 years ago|reply
Something similar to this is Game Done Quick[1] which is a week long speed running competition. Because it is always streaming you can turn it on and see what game is being played. I would look at the schedule and make plans. "better tune in Wednesday because they are playing brood war".

I might tune in to this "Cloudflare TV". Also when i was watching the best of video on bots there was a error saying "Quota exceeded". Not sure why that popped up.

[1] https://gamesdonequick.com/

[+] graiz|5 years ago|reply
Ok. Let's put aside the content that Cloudflare will produce. They aren't a content company.

What they are showing is that cable is dying and using Cloudflare technology they can standup a global 24-hour TV station.

How many TV stations are there around the world? A lot and the future of TV is certainly digital. I don't care about the content but if they can pull this off then it's a showcase to every one of the tens of thousands of QVC, MTV, BBC, CSPAN, Discovery Channel, networks that they don't need the big cable players to broadcast anymore.

[+] dijksterhuis|5 years ago|reply
I'm loving the synthy 80s ident.

@eastdakota any chance of a link to the musician who wrote it?

[+] nojvek|5 years ago|reply
Really cool. More than just the techy talks I am more interested in their nerdy cooking show and where they goof around.

Would love to see things like twitch where they share their screen and write interesting things or play a game.

I watch Suz Hinton (@noopkat) from occasionally and her stuff is pretty entertaining (Aussie accent helps too)

They should get interesting folks like that on the show.

The MIT AI podcast by Lex Fridman is pretty brilliant. He gets high caliber folks on his podcast. That level of intellectual curiosity would deffo make the TV station a hit amongst the niche community.

It almost makes me wonder why YC never thought of this.