It's a natural fit for AT&T to buy T-Mobile. They both 3G GSM (UMTS) technology. T-Mobile is probably better in some key markets than AT&T, most notably New York (City).
The one issue with T-Mobile is it uses the fairly nonstandard 1870 MHz frequency. I don't know of any other carrier that does (anywhere). I assume this is because AT&T has the rights to the more common frequencies in the relevant markets? I wonder what technical and regulatory hurdles stand in their way for switching T-Mobile infrastructure to also do the "standard" frequencies.
Wireless really is a mess in the US. Europe and Australia have really benefited from choosing one technology (GSM). In the US you pick your carrier then pick your phone. Elsewhere you basically pick your phone then pick your carrier. Don't like you carrier? Swap your SIM. Problem solved. The US really suffers (from the consumer point of view) by this lack of carrier mobility.
It's my theory that US wireless is so expensive at least in part due to it being the most balkanized market in the developed world (and possibly the entire world).
I was hoping LTE would help alleviate this problem as it seemed to be on the road map for 3 out of 4 of the carriers (all but Sprint). Now I guess it's still 2 of 3. Sprint is still the odd man out with the (basically failed) WiMax technology.
I can see this acquisition facing some serious regulatory and legislative scrutiny.
> I can see this acquisition facing some serious regulatory and legislative scrutiny.
One can hope, but I'm not holding my breath. My guess is that FTC and FCC will make some comments, AT&T will make some small gestures, the deal gets approved and about a year later AT&T's plans increase in price by 15-20%.
> Wireless really is a mess in the US. Europe and Australia have really benefited from choosing one technology (GSM).
How are pricing plans in the US when you are roaming beyond your state? I live in Sweden, where I have a decently priced data and call plan.
However, as soon as I go outside of Sweden, which is a small country (9M people), I have to pay roaming charges. I don't mind so much the call charges, but they want €4/MB ($5.60/MB) for data. Which essentially means that I don't use data roaming at all when out of town unless on Wifi, and I don't travel much in Sweden. Ok, so I can get calls when I travel, but I hardly use the phone for calls, I use it for the data access.
Yes, I can get another SIM, but then I have to tell everyone who may call me that I have changed number for that week, which is not really workable.
> The one issue with T-Mobile is it uses the fairly nonstandard 1870 MHz frequency. I don't know of any other carrier that does (anywhere).
I think you mean GSM/UMTS band II (PCS), as 1870 is in the uplink portion of PCS (1850–1910MHz). That's a pretty standard frequency in North America. All four major US carriers (ATT, T-Mo, Verizon, and Sprint) operate in it (CDMA band class 1 overlaps with UMTS band II), as well as Bell and Telus in Canada, and Telcel in Mexico.
The only somewhat-oddball spectrum T-Mobile has is AWS, which they use for UMTS service. Even then, that's still a standard band according to the ITU.
Not to belabor the point, but it's worth noticing that it was a lack of regulation that caused the mess in the US. The FCC should have just mandated one technology (as in most other countries).
Even if you could simply swap your SIM card to swap providers in the US, the majority of customers would not suddenly become portable; people don't want to pay $500 up front for a phone, even though they're paying more down the line.
The one issue with T-Mobile is it uses the fairly nonstandard 1870 MHz frequency
Actually, T-Mobile uses the AWS spectrum (in addition to PCS/1900MHz spectrum) which has the uplink around 1700MHz and the downlink around 2100MHz. AT&T and Verizon both have AWS holdings as well as Cricket, MetroPCS, and others. It's standard spectrum and MetroPCS and Cricket are actively using it for service today. AT&T and Verizon seem to be holding it to use for LTE in the future when increased capacity becomes necessary.
> I was hoping LTE would help alleviate this problem as it seemed to be on the road map for 3 out of 4 of the carriers (all but Sprint).
Based on the auction maps, T-Mobile USA had virtually no LTE/700 spectrum space. So AT&T acquiring T-Mo should not change the mix on LTE/700.
The wild card is Frontier, which won the auction for the 'E' block for a large part of the US CONUS. Frontier is somehow interconnected with Dish/Echostar. See the maps here ..
What this guy is saying about the European mobile market is mostly false. In Europe you choose your phone around what carrier you have. It works the same way it does in the US where you have a choice of phones based on what your carrier is offering, the phone is locked to the carrier, and you cannot switch without a penalty. The only difference between US carriers and European ones are that the concept of buying minutes is just coming to Europe and most phone companies have very similar offerings of phones, just one of the reasons that make the mobile market there highly competitive.
This is complete bullshit, and would give AT&T an effective monopoly on GSM based wireless communications in a number of key markets. I say we collectively work to lobby against this deal, as it will be bad for all of us who are based in the US and looking to do ANYTHING in mobile. Imagine if Apple had tried to get their iPhone AppStore arrangement in a single-GSM carrier world?
It's 2011, folks. We can't let oppressive regimes have their way.
T-Mobile customer service has consistently been one of the best customer service lines I have ever dealt with. Back when I had a Sidekick, I would routinely end up connected to a Danger employee sitting _at_ Danger HQ, helping me through teething issues on the early Sidekicks. For over five years, they have been extremely polite, helpful, and available.
From what I've heard, I won't get this kind of service as an AT&T customer. I'm sad to see T-Mobile go, but this merger always was kind of on the horizon.
I also had a Sidekick pretty early on, and was also pleased with the service. However, Sidekick service was a completely different process than for any other phone. I've not been quite as pleased with their service since moving to Android devices, though I haven't felt compelled to leave, even though the network is tiny (but very fast in many high density areas; I sometimes end up using it instead of my 4G from Clear, because 3G from T-Mobile is lower latency...this happened in Austin, for example, even though Clear has strong 4G coverage there), and I often end up roaming when I get off the beaten path. Since I travel full-time, I am often off the beaten path.
Anyway, from a long-time T-Mobile customer perspective, I think AT&T is the worst possible place for T-Mobile to end up, though I guess I'll get a bigger network, eventually. I just hope they don't change the unlimited data plan I currently have. That would suck, and lead to me look for alternatives.
My experience has been quite different. A while ago I was considering switching to T-Mobile so I ordered a SIM, but a few days later I changed my mind. I called T-Mobile to find out how to cancel it, and I was told just to refuse shipment, so I did. Next month I get a bill for a month of service for a SIM card that was never in my position, and thus never even activated. I call up and eventually they dropped the charges (or so I was told). Next month I get a bill for $12. Lather, rinse, repeat. In my experience, the T-Mobile reps, at least those dealing with user accounts, are either unwilling or incapable of performing competent customer service. AT&T, on the other hand, I've had nothing but the best service with. I can literally call them any time of the day and there's someone that answers and takes care of whatever issues I have.
I got T-Mobile because I refused to deal with the fustercluck that is the former SBC Wireless aka The New AT&T. Customer Service will send you to the wrong department sometimes. They keep acquiring companies and they can't coordinate them fast enough. I guess I'm going to have to move to Sprint, I don't care for the whole "doesn't know math" Verizon thing either.
Spectrum is the real problem. There is just not enough space for 3-4 LTE providers in addition to all existing GSM/CDMA carriers. We are solving this problem in Russia too, but with a different solution. One carrier (Yota) is building a shared network of LTE base stations and allows all carriers to sell it. Other carriers have the option to buy 20% of Yota five years down the road. Also, Yota agrees to stop being a carrier itself by that time. It's like energy grid, GPS sattelites or highway system. You better have just one utility and regulate it well.
I guess I don't understand how anti-trust laws work. Didn't they break up "Ma Bell" a few years ago specifically to prevent monopolies? And since then, AT&T bought Cingular, now T-Mobile, and they pretty much have a monopoly on GSM, if not on all mobile phones.
Anti-trust laws are enforced when and only when the political pressure from people who feel like they're being abused by a monopoly exceeds the political pressure from that monopoly's lobbyists.
> And since then, AT&T bought Cingular, now T-Mobile
AT&T didn't buy Cingular per se. In late 2006 AT&T and Bellsouth each owned 50% of Cingular. AT&T got their 50% ownership via SBC. AT&T became sole owner of Cingular by acquiring Bellsouth. That deal closed about Dec 30, 2006 (after many delays getting approval from the FCC). The original iPhone was announced by Apple on January 9, 2007.
Awesome. Now the US will have an even more competitive wireless market, (seriously: which is exactly what is necessary). I'm sure the wireless plans will only get better.
I will not give AT&T my money. As a happy T-Mobile user I am strongly against this purchase. I really hate that the US Cellular system is split by Wireless technologies and that my only options for GSM are basically AT&T and T-Mobile. Where will I go? Credo is great, but my phone isn't based on CDMA and I don't want to switch phones just because I switched vendors.
From Friday's HN post "Confessions of an Apple Store Employee":
"We usually have to tell them that if they unlock their iPhone, it won't work. That
it's going to be like a $700 paperweight, and that the antenna will fry itself
on T-Mobile. Of course, that's not true, but that's what we tell them."
Wonder how quickly their tune on that last part will change..
The whole thing will change - because what GSM provider in the US are they going to worry about people unlocking and switching to?
The release says this will "enhance [AT&T's] network capacity". That means T-Mobile isn't likely to exist as a separate thing that's just owned by AT&T. It's pretty certain to be rolled directly into AT&T. It's Cingular 2.0.
Agreed. Do you think T-mobile will allow termination of contracts without a early termination fee? I'm guessing probably not, but I'd jump ship if I could avoid the fees.
T-mobile has an excellent policy of easily unlocking phones if you just call and ask. In the worst case they make you wait 3 months into your contract before they do. This policy will be missed.
For the longest time when AT&T bought Cingular, plans that were entered into under Cingular were allowed to continue under AT&T on the same terms. Given how long ago this was, I didn't have data, so I can't speak to what would have happened with a voice/data plan.
However, I can see the same thing not happening with this deal. AT&T really is the antithesis of T-Mo in terms of pricing, flexibility, and customer service.
I've got both (an iPhone and a Nexus One). While 3G coverage is not as readily available on T-Mo as it is on AT&T, there have certainly been many times when it has been more reliable in call quality and drops.
The only upside to this? It is very likely the US will end up with unified GSM frequencies. We will see.
They likely won't take away your plan (and if they tried you'd have the ability to terminate your contract). All carriers have a policy of grandfathering in existing plans when they change theirs (as they did, for example, when they eliminated unlimited data last year). Of course that means you can't get a new phone or change a plan details without submitting to the new terms. If you're willing to live with that, it can be beneficial. Some people are on 5 year old plans and paying $10 or less for unlimited data. Carriers know this, and put up with it because they know the vast majority of their customers are going to re-up the contract regularly.
1. Will I be able to keep the same plan I'm on now? I'm assuming the answer is yes unless I make any changes, at which point they'll try to force me into a new AT&T, which will suck.
2. When can I buy an iPhone for use on my T-Mobile plan? This will still probably a good year away, though I hope it'll be faster.
Only three big companies. There's got to be a point when these mergers hurt competition. I like T-Mobile because it offers cheaper postpaid plans without a contract. I don't think AT&T offers these and their plans are generally more expensive.
My mom is a pretty senior manager at T-Mobile, so when I first read this post I texted her about the acquisition. She said that there were rumors in the company that Sprint was trying to buy them, but she had heard nothing about the AT&T acquisition. Five minutes later she got the news break from the CEO. HN ftw.
Are there any chipsets out there that could support both AT&T (1900) and T-mobile 3G (1700) frequencies? Since one of the main reasons for the merger is for spectrum, it seems that AT&T must be planning on utilizing T-mobile's spectrum in the future to improve reach and reliability, so it would make sense for them to provide phones that support both frequencies.
[+] [-] cletus|15 years ago|reply
The one issue with T-Mobile is it uses the fairly nonstandard 1870 MHz frequency. I don't know of any other carrier that does (anywhere). I assume this is because AT&T has the rights to the more common frequencies in the relevant markets? I wonder what technical and regulatory hurdles stand in their way for switching T-Mobile infrastructure to also do the "standard" frequencies.
Wireless really is a mess in the US. Europe and Australia have really benefited from choosing one technology (GSM). In the US you pick your carrier then pick your phone. Elsewhere you basically pick your phone then pick your carrier. Don't like you carrier? Swap your SIM. Problem solved. The US really suffers (from the consumer point of view) by this lack of carrier mobility.
It's my theory that US wireless is so expensive at least in part due to it being the most balkanized market in the developed world (and possibly the entire world).
I was hoping LTE would help alleviate this problem as it seemed to be on the road map for 3 out of 4 of the carriers (all but Sprint). Now I guess it's still 2 of 3. Sprint is still the odd man out with the (basically failed) WiMax technology.
I can see this acquisition facing some serious regulatory and legislative scrutiny.
[+] [-] Anechoic|15 years ago|reply
One can hope, but I'm not holding my breath. My guess is that FTC and FCC will make some comments, AT&T will make some small gestures, the deal gets approved and about a year later AT&T's plans increase in price by 15-20%.
[+] [-] bjelkeman-again|15 years ago|reply
How are pricing plans in the US when you are roaming beyond your state? I live in Sweden, where I have a decently priced data and call plan.
However, as soon as I go outside of Sweden, which is a small country (9M people), I have to pay roaming charges. I don't mind so much the call charges, but they want €4/MB ($5.60/MB) for data. Which essentially means that I don't use data roaming at all when out of town unless on Wifi, and I don't travel much in Sweden. Ok, so I can get calls when I travel, but I hardly use the phone for calls, I use it for the data access.
Yes, I can get another SIM, but then I have to tell everyone who may call me that I have changed number for that week, which is not really workable.
[+] [-] sklnd|15 years ago|reply
I think you mean GSM/UMTS band II (PCS), as 1870 is in the uplink portion of PCS (1850–1910MHz). That's a pretty standard frequency in North America. All four major US carriers (ATT, T-Mo, Verizon, and Sprint) operate in it (CDMA band class 1 overlaps with UMTS band II), as well as Bell and Telus in Canada, and Telcel in Mexico.
The only somewhat-oddball spectrum T-Mobile has is AWS, which they use for UMTS service. Even then, that's still a standard band according to the ITU.
[+] [-] eli|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tptacek|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnnygood|15 years ago|reply
Actually, T-Mobile uses the AWS spectrum (in addition to PCS/1900MHz spectrum) which has the uplink around 1700MHz and the downlink around 2100MHz. AT&T and Verizon both have AWS holdings as well as Cricket, MetroPCS, and others. It's standard spectrum and MetroPCS and Cricket are actively using it for service today. AT&T and Verizon seem to be holding it to use for LTE in the future when increased capacity becomes necessary.
If you'd like to learn more about AWS spectrum and see some nice maps of who bought what, Phone Scoop has a great article: http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=99&p=14...
[+] [-] trotsky|15 years ago|reply
I would imagine AT&T has a certain number of favors to cash in at this point.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/AT%26T#Privac...
[+] [-] cosmicray|15 years ago|reply
Based on the auction maps, T-Mobile USA had virtually no LTE/700 spectrum space. So AT&T acquiring T-Mo should not change the mix on LTE/700.
The wild card is Frontier, which won the auction for the 'E' block for a large part of the US CONUS. Frontier is somehow interconnected with Dish/Echostar. See the maps here ..
http://www.cellularmaps.com/700_auction.shtml
[+] [-] danielrhodes|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dres|15 years ago|reply
It's 2011, folks. We can't let oppressive regimes have their way.
[+] [-] SkyMarshal|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tptacek|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amock|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greattypo|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] epall|15 years ago|reply
From what I've heard, I won't get this kind of service as an AT&T customer. I'm sad to see T-Mobile go, but this merger always was kind of on the horizon.
[+] [-] SwellJoe|15 years ago|reply
Anyway, from a long-time T-Mobile customer perspective, I think AT&T is the worst possible place for T-Mobile to end up, though I guess I'll get a bigger network, eventually. I just hope they don't change the unlimited data plan I currently have. That would suck, and lead to me look for alternatives.
[+] [-] whyenot|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kylec|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] orblivion|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plusbryan|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yurylifshits|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnohara|15 years ago|reply
Oh, and unrelenting robo-reminders. Those calls never drop and they always leave a message.
[+] [-] zavulon|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] natnat|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lutorm|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jsdalton|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cosmicray|15 years ago|reply
AT&T didn't buy Cingular per se. In late 2006 AT&T and Bellsouth each owned 50% of Cingular. AT&T got their 50% ownership via SBC. AT&T became sole owner of Cingular by acquiring Bellsouth. That deal closed about Dec 30, 2006 (after many delays getting approval from the FCC). The original iPhone was announced by Apple on January 9, 2007.
[+] [-] nickpinkston|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alecperkins|15 years ago|reply
edit: /sarcasm, obviously.
[+] [-] ugh|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cherian_Abraham|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] miah_|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greattypo|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Legion|15 years ago|reply
The release says this will "enhance [AT&T's] network capacity". That means T-Mobile isn't likely to exist as a separate thing that's just owned by AT&T. It's pretty certain to be rolled directly into AT&T. It's Cingular 2.0.
[+] [-] pitdesi|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cheald|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abhiyerra|15 years ago|reply
The nice thing about T-mobile is it is/was the only company which charges less if you didn't have a contract.
[+] [-] ryanclemson|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sev|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jmspring|15 years ago|reply
However, I can see the same thing not happening with this deal. AT&T really is the antithesis of T-Mo in terms of pricing, flexibility, and customer service.
I've got both (an iPhone and a Nexus One). While 3G coverage is not as readily available on T-Mo as it is on AT&T, there have certainly been many times when it has been more reliable in call quality and drops.
The only upside to this? It is very likely the US will end up with unified GSM frequencies. We will see.
Seriously not looking forward to this.
[+] [-] MatthewPhillips|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melvinram|15 years ago|reply
1. Will I be able to keep the same plan I'm on now? I'm assuming the answer is yes unless I make any changes, at which point they'll try to force me into a new AT&T, which will suck.
2. When can I buy an iPhone for use on my T-Mobile plan? This will still probably a good year away, though I hope it'll be faster.
[+] [-] meemo|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grammr|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhizome|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajays|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Osiris|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rbranson|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nl|15 years ago|reply