So wait... I know plenty of carpenters who go home and make cabinets.
I know a welder who makes cool stuff like grills and roasters in his spare time for fun.
Plenty of photographers don't even pretend there is a difference between work and play.
Same for musicians.
Mathematicians don't make math jokes all the time, but the annoyingly approach everything as if it was a math problem (insert spherical cow joke here).
On the other side: this guy has had the luckiest interactions with the bureaucrats ever. I seem to always get met with derision and snide comments for asking things like "how do i turn this in?" or "this vaguely labeled field doesn't make sense, what do you want here" and so on.
I've heard accountants throw around jargon as bad or worse than programmers, particularly during tax season.
Lawyers love lawyer jokes and lawyer culture.
So what the hell is this guy's problem? Why doesn't he just quit and do something he likes instead of whine about it like a petulant child?
Sounds like he doesn't enjoy cocky, arrogant behavior. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) Maybe his personality is orthogonal to that which he surrounds himself by...
I think this issue has more to do with personality than "culture".
I don't think the author would mind carpenters getting together to work on their craft, or working on their craft privately. He says in the article that the basic idea of programmers getting together sounded good to him. Rather, he would be put off by carpenters getting together at an event called "SuperHappyCarpentryHouse", with the stated goal of "creating a key to unlock a door to a better world for humanity." What he doesn't like are the peculiarities and the strength of the culture. (The culture of these particular folks he works with.)
I dunno, but it seems to be his main issue is what might amount to bragging and boasting which he appears to have encountered in his dealings.
It seems to be, to a degree, a protest against conformity to a programming culture he's encountered. He wants to live his programming life as he sees fit, not so much as others seem to assume he would align with?
What a... strange set of complaints. It's one of those things that is so fascinating to read because I can't understand what he doesn't understand.
I get the part about arrogance and looking down on people with less knowledge or skill. There's a certain "macho" aspect to the culture that does bother me.
But I'm baffled by his confusion that people enjoy doing this outside their job. Granted, the passion to create and the enjoyment derived from it isn't shared by everyone, but it's not THAT uncommon - no one bats an eye at artists practicing their craft "in their spare time", or people who enjoy tinkering or building random stuff around the house - again, "in their spare time". It's a craft, and many people who pick up a craft because they enjoy doing it... enjoy doing it.
Exactly. He compared it to accounting. This is the most common fallacy I come across day to day. People just don't understand that programming is a creative sport. Not mathematically dry as this blogger percieves. Instead of accountants discussing form 4686, programmers gathering would be more like artists gathering to discuss ideas and make art together over a weekend.
People really need to start seeing programming as a creative thing. But then he's just a software engineer.
> What a... strange set of complaints. It's one of those things that is so fascinating to read because I can't understand what he doesn't understand.
Absolutely spot on. I wondered for a moment halfway whether it was meant to be satire.
The author mentions:
> I would be in lab, trying to complete whatever assignment I was doing, and there would be a bunch of CS majors around, making jokes about programming, talking about esoteric CS topics that I didn’t understand, and just being obnoxious in general.
I might have just been very lucky, but I thoroughly enjoyed joking about computer science and discussing perhaps esoteric CS topics when my peers were generally hanging out doing assignments. These discussions really helped me learn more about CS beyond the rigid confines of the course and sometimes discussing these small tips and hacks are incredibly useful later on in life during job interviews.
I agree, there's certainly nothing wrong with practicing your craft during your free time, especially if you enjoy it. But I appreciate the author's total candor. I find the mainstream "geek" culture unpalatable, myself. Of course that's not the same thing as hacker culture, or CS culture.
I can definitely understand how he doesn't like jerk hackers. These aren't mutually exclusive though. I know plenty of people that learn something cool (or are working on something cool) and want to show it off (these people are great). A lot of the people that are jerks have weird self confidence issues and tend to want to elevate themselves by looking down on others.
TL;DR The fact that other people find programming to be fun angers and upsets me. Additionally, I feel inferior when talking to them, therefore they should stop having fun.
Guy who doesn't like programming doesn't like events for people who are passionate about programming.
The largest tags on this blog are "PS3" and "Xbox 360". To the question, "Why would you get together and write code, when you could do anything else?" I would ask, "Why would you sit around and play video games when you could do something meaningful and lasting?"
Wow. It sounds like the author perceived folks talking about topics outside of his own expertise to be "showing off their knowledge," or "using a bunch of technical jargon to make others feel dumb." That view was probably reinforced by his questions being met with hostile and elitist responses. Arrogance and condescension are issues that I've seen repeatedly in our community, but ascribing malice to individuals visibly enjoying their work? That sits solely on the author's shoulders.
So why the disdain? From the comparisons to mathematicians and accountants, it sounds like the author views programming solely as an occupation, and doesn't see the possibility for it to be a creative avocation. Thus, continued discussion of the topic outside of the workplace must be an attempt to assert superiority over the others in the room.
But what if you instead make comparisons to other overtly creative pursuits? Professional artists frequently collaborate, musicians have jam sessions, and pastry chefs still participate in cookie exchanges. And is an accountant saying "You don’t know what a Form 4868 is?" really so unimaginable when reframed as one baker discovering that another doesn't know how to proof yeast?
The author himself finds beauty and craftsmanship in his fruit tart recipe "the fresh fruit on top makes it look really pretty and colorful, and yet it’s deceptively simple to make." What he fails to realize is that many others see the same beauty, the same joy, and the same sense of craftsmanship in a well-designed algorithm.
I avoided socializing with the vast majority of my CS peers in college because I didn't enjoy their "culture" very much. Maybe its too stereotypical, but for the most part the people were self-centered in a strange way, lacked a lot of social tact, and had too much bad taste in a lot of things - movies, music, clothes, women, etc. much for my liking. I can't recall having that many interesting conversations with classmates. Even when we were discussing technology, there was too much ignorant bravado and not enough quality debate.
When I started my career, I was placed with other younger programmers and we generally worked well together, exploring solutions, researching technologies, etc. That was my favorite time in the field. We were all unpretentious and actually spent time learning things and discussing them in a rational manner.
It was pretty much a complete 180 from my experience with programmers in college.
I have a few too many scattered hobbies and pursuits to want to spend large chunks of my personal time on the computer programming but I don't fault those who do, especially the ones working on projects that inspire others. I also don't fault the person who wrote the article. I think he's stuck with bad peers and hasn't yet found a team that works well for him yet.
Just so I'm clear on your comment regarding your CS peers; you came into contact with people who were socially underdeveloped due to lack of social experiences, and as a result you chose to deny them social experiences.
Yeah, it was totally their fault. What a bunch of assholes.
I just wonder why software engineering is like this.
Everything is like this.
I have a brother who is in the energy business, another who is a lawyer, and a sister who is in the sports business. They all see the world through their eyes and can't understand why everyone else doesn't too. Every get-together is full of talk about deep drilling, legal precedents, taxpayer funded arenas, and, of course, politics. While I just have another beer and actually look forward to a debate about hashing algorithms and scaling strategies.
I know a lot of people, too: doctors, lawyers, businessmen, researchers, artists. And while all of them will fill dead conversational time with discussions about their day job, it's rarely their first preference. In my experience, most people are dying to have a conversation about something other than work.
I both agree and disagree with this guy. When I was working for a big company, working 9 to 6 and bringing home good income from that, I wouldnt fathom doing hackathons on weekends or doing coding in the evening after doing it for 8 hours or more. Doing this for a number of years did wonders to my income, but after a while I felt a lack of progress in both my overall knowledge(forced to be knowledgeable within certain domain by work) and personal development(non-code).
After co-founding a startup and taking a product from concept to shipped state, I know what its like to jump into an unknown framework/language head first, how to spawn prototypes of idea on a weekend. The school of startup taught me more about business than an MBA probably could although it did reduce my income significantly.
The state of this guys mind is understandable if you take into consideration where he is in his development career. For his sake, if he is unhappy with his work, I hope he finds a project or career path that makes him happy.
At first I was stunned. It had never occurred to me that there were people that didn't like the cultural aspect of hacking/programming. But to be honest, after a couple of minutes of trying to look at this with some perspective, I can imagine what this guy feels. It has happened to me when I regard other cultures, cinematographers for instance. I've always felt they are way too much into something that I regard as a simple thing. I usually feel they're trying to outsmart me by saying "Oh, you didn't get the reference? I just saw it coming!"
So there's this math party and everyone came out to have a good time, tangent is dancing with cosine, sine is having drinks and so on. Everyone is happy except for the exponential function which is sitting in a corner all by itself. Finally sine walks over and says "Hey e, why aren't you having fun with all of us?" ... says the e-function: "Because I can't integrate myself!"
While I find this guy's attitude a little sad, in reality, he's just part of the spectrum/bell curve of programmers. Some people love programming, enjoy doing it, and think how amazing and fun it is to create something AND get paid for it, too? Wow! Some people program as a job, and that's it. Despite what the author suggests, some accountants love numbers enough to play with the statistics after work hours, and good for them.
Programming can change the world, and starting a project over a weekend can be the first step. Can't really change the world, even a little bit, if you don't try.
So, yeah, this guy shouldn't go to SHDH. Doesn't mean we don't invite him. So, he doesn't get it. Maybe the girl he brings with him will.
... and it became more disturbing. A tech journalist wrote about it like this:
“That’s what we want to do for others- we want to enable them
to come together for a common purpose to help humanity. We see different parts
of technology as different elements that come together to create a key
that will unlock a door that will change the world.”
I cannot even begin to understand the mindset that would make someone find that quote disturbing. Marketing-speak perhaps, sure. What's wrong with changing the world?
Nothing is wrong with wanting to change the world. But you don't find the language being used rather creepy? It really does sound like delusions of grandeur. For a one-day event? There is nothing wrong with wanting to change the world, but there is something wrong with hubris, ego, megalomania...
I can't say if this is the case here, but I have found this type of reaction common among others: I think it is the same fear people have when they hear of new advances in biology. It is fear of the unknown, magnified by increasingly powerful tools.
I have found SHDH to be the consistently least arrogant gathering of technical people I partake in.
Arrogance (in my experience) tends to come from a small myopic subgroup where outside ideas are shunned. SHDH is far too big and has far too many people who like different things to have much of a cohesive snob element.
Nothing in common except that we're all people who hack in our spare time, and he does seem to take some time describing that this worldview is alien to him and that he doesn't enjoy being a software engineer...
I think that most of us here have trouble relating to this guy because we all got into programming because we enjoyed it, and would do it even if we weren't getting paid.
It's like spending your childhood jumping up and down on a trampoline and then discovering that there were companies that would pay you six figures to jump on a trampoline all day. It's like the best job ever because you get to play on that trampoline. And then you'd go home and jump on your trampoline because that's your favorite thing to do.
I see people try to get in to computer programming by taking courses in college, and all I can think is that it's not going to work. If you wanted to program computers, you'd have a dozen years experience at it before you got to college. If all you do is look at it as a career like accounting or civil engineering, you're setting yourself up for a frustrating life.
Sounds like a 9-5er. I met plenty of these when I was studying "CS" and really discouraged me. Part of the reason I had no regret dropping out to join a startup.
I do what I do because I love it. If someone doesn't get it, feel bad for them.
I totally get where he's coming from. It's an artifact of a bunch of low social skills individuals way over identifying with possible solutions to a problem and their ability to do some of these solutions and generally being macho jerks. It may be especially related to americans (as the canadians I know in the field are much nicer than the standout americans I remember, but it might just be they're more well adjusted people than those memorably bad enough to remember).
I also get that he doesn't understand you get a LOT of this sort of talk in any industry.
Additionally, while service professionals don't often "do their job" on the weekend too (some do, volunteering to help charities/schools, etc, with their professional skills), many do (Have you ever heard of Pro Bono lawyering?).
Almost all craftspeople do obsess about their skills on their weekend. A relative of mine who outfits/tools factories builds hotrods on the weekend, mechanical engineers I know are gaga for building/designing stuff, artist types are veritable fountains of sidework. Hell, even my wife (analyst for charitable giving) analyzes the hell out board games and video games (which is amusing, we know she will beat all of us all the time after a few weeks of play).
I think this guys complaints are somewhat valid... I've maybe echoed something similar myself? Though, I think my primary complaint is that lots of coders seem to think people who don't want to work on some OSS project / side project during their free time can't be exceptional coders... This is the attitude I find fairly pervasive(especially on HN) and personally objectionable.
> Though, I think my primary complaint is that lots of coders seem to think people who don't want to work on some OSS project / side project during their free time can't be exceptional coders... This is the attitude I find fairly pervasive(especially on HN) and personally objectionable.
I understand that you find that belief "objectionable" and "pervasive". Have you considered the possibility that it might be correct? Because you have failed to present any arguments against it.
There's a pretty strong empirical argument for it, just from the observed populations, but there are also theoretical reasons to believe it:
• People who only program at work, and on closed-source projects, only ever get feedback on their programming within the context of work, from the other people who work at the same company, probably on the same project. Most projects and many companies are staffed entirely with bad programmers, so it's very likely that you'll never get a good programmer to look at your code that way, so you'll never get mentorship; you'll have to learn everything about programming by trial and error, which would take many lifetimes. At many companies, it's even worse than that — there's no code review.
• People who practice a skill 80 hours a week improve much faster than people who only practice it 40 hours a week. Many people don't even have the opportunity to program for anything close to 40 hours a week at work.
• People who practice something because they must, rather than because they love it, will never improve beyond the minimal level of competency demanded of them, because that takes further effort.
Now, there's a limit to how much you can productively practice a skill, and maybe you have a job where Rob Pike vets your checkins and that will suck up as much effort as you can manage to throw at it. But there was probably a time when you didn't, and there'll probably be another time when you don't.
[Commented on his blog but not sure if he'll approve, so I'm reposting it here]:
It just seems like you're associating passion with unpleasantness. Does it make you uncomfortable to be around people that enjoy what they are doing passionately?
In my experience, I encounter very little douchebaggery in my community interactions. I don't want to be a dick, but it may have to do with your own view of your work (just a job, as opposed to a passion) that gets you around more douchebags.
There are lots of alphas out there that do condescend and patronize, but that's a characteristic (or character flaw) of that person, and not everyone. It's just far more obvious and annoying when you're not that type of person.
Why don't you find something that you're actually interested in doing for work?
He's a professional who has forgotten -- or maybe never knew -- what it means to be an amateur. To do it for the love of the thing.
He's exchanging units of time for units of currency; it's no wonder he doesn't understand why people get excited about building things. It's no wonder he doesn't understand the immense value generated by creating something new or solving problems that are difficult.
It's also unsurprising that he thinks one person typing into a terminal can't change the world.
"Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune." -Rohn
[+] [-] sophacles|15 years ago|reply
I know a welder who makes cool stuff like grills and roasters in his spare time for fun.
Plenty of photographers don't even pretend there is a difference between work and play.
Same for musicians.
Mathematicians don't make math jokes all the time, but the annoyingly approach everything as if it was a math problem (insert spherical cow joke here).
On the other side: this guy has had the luckiest interactions with the bureaucrats ever. I seem to always get met with derision and snide comments for asking things like "how do i turn this in?" or "this vaguely labeled field doesn't make sense, what do you want here" and so on.
I've heard accountants throw around jargon as bad or worse than programmers, particularly during tax season.
Lawyers love lawyer jokes and lawyer culture.
So what the hell is this guy's problem? Why doesn't he just quit and do something he likes instead of whine about it like a petulant child?
[+] [-] possibilistic|15 years ago|reply
I think this issue has more to do with personality than "culture".
[+] [-] johns|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericdschmidt|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mc32|15 years ago|reply
It seems to be, to a degree, a protest against conformity to a programming culture he's encountered. He wants to live his programming life as he sees fit, not so much as others seem to assume he would align with?
[+] [-] Zephyrus|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alex_c|15 years ago|reply
I get the part about arrogance and looking down on people with less knowledge or skill. There's a certain "macho" aspect to the culture that does bother me.
But I'm baffled by his confusion that people enjoy doing this outside their job. Granted, the passion to create and the enjoyment derived from it isn't shared by everyone, but it's not THAT uncommon - no one bats an eye at artists practicing their craft "in their spare time", or people who enjoy tinkering or building random stuff around the house - again, "in their spare time". It's a craft, and many people who pick up a craft because they enjoy doing it... enjoy doing it.
[+] [-] dfgdfgdfg|15 years ago|reply
People really need to start seeing programming as a creative thing. But then he's just a software engineer.
[+] [-] bdhe|15 years ago|reply
Absolutely spot on. I wondered for a moment halfway whether it was meant to be satire.
The author mentions:
> I would be in lab, trying to complete whatever assignment I was doing, and there would be a bunch of CS majors around, making jokes about programming, talking about esoteric CS topics that I didn’t understand, and just being obnoxious in general.
I might have just been very lucky, but I thoroughly enjoyed joking about computer science and discussing perhaps esoteric CS topics when my peers were generally hanging out doing assignments. These discussions really helped me learn more about CS beyond the rigid confines of the course and sometimes discussing these small tips and hacks are incredibly useful later on in life during job interviews.
[+] [-] jf|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericdschmidt|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] okaramian|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kiba|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewvc|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericdschmidt|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dlsspy|15 years ago|reply
The largest tags on this blog are "PS3" and "Xbox 360". To the question, "Why would you get together and write code, when you could do anything else?" I would ask, "Why would you sit around and play video games when you could do something meaningful and lasting?"
[+] [-] m0tive|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] callahad|15 years ago|reply
So why the disdain? From the comparisons to mathematicians and accountants, it sounds like the author views programming solely as an occupation, and doesn't see the possibility for it to be a creative avocation. Thus, continued discussion of the topic outside of the workplace must be an attempt to assert superiority over the others in the room.
But what if you instead make comparisons to other overtly creative pursuits? Professional artists frequently collaborate, musicians have jam sessions, and pastry chefs still participate in cookie exchanges. And is an accountant saying "You don’t know what a Form 4868 is?" really so unimaginable when reframed as one baker discovering that another doesn't know how to proof yeast?
The author himself finds beauty and craftsmanship in his fruit tart recipe "the fresh fruit on top makes it look really pretty and colorful, and yet it’s deceptively simple to make." What he fails to realize is that many others see the same beauty, the same joy, and the same sense of craftsmanship in a well-designed algorithm.
[+] [-] ssharp|15 years ago|reply
I avoided socializing with the vast majority of my CS peers in college because I didn't enjoy their "culture" very much. Maybe its too stereotypical, but for the most part the people were self-centered in a strange way, lacked a lot of social tact, and had too much bad taste in a lot of things - movies, music, clothes, women, etc. much for my liking. I can't recall having that many interesting conversations with classmates. Even when we were discussing technology, there was too much ignorant bravado and not enough quality debate.
When I started my career, I was placed with other younger programmers and we generally worked well together, exploring solutions, researching technologies, etc. That was my favorite time in the field. We were all unpretentious and actually spent time learning things and discussing them in a rational manner.
It was pretty much a complete 180 from my experience with programmers in college.
I have a few too many scattered hobbies and pursuits to want to spend large chunks of my personal time on the computer programming but I don't fault those who do, especially the ones working on projects that inspire others. I also don't fault the person who wrote the article. I think he's stuck with bad peers and hasn't yet found a team that works well for him yet.
[+] [-] itg|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haploid|15 years ago|reply
Yeah, it was totally their fault. What a bunch of assholes.
[+] [-] edw519|15 years ago|reply
Everything is like this.
I have a brother who is in the energy business, another who is a lawyer, and a sister who is in the sports business. They all see the world through their eyes and can't understand why everyone else doesn't too. Every get-together is full of talk about deep drilling, legal precedents, taxpayer funded arenas, and, of course, politics. While I just have another beer and actually look forward to a debate about hashing algorithms and scaling strategies.
[+] [-] timr|15 years ago|reply
No, it isn't.
I know a lot of people, too: doctors, lawyers, businessmen, researchers, artists. And while all of them will fill dead conversational time with discussions about their day job, it's rarely their first preference. In my experience, most people are dying to have a conversation about something other than work.
I don't think a lot of nerds get this.
[+] [-] codenerdz|15 years ago|reply
After co-founding a startup and taking a product from concept to shipped state, I know what its like to jump into an unknown framework/language head first, how to spawn prototypes of idea on a weekend. The school of startup taught me more about business than an MBA probably could although it did reduce my income significantly.
The state of this guys mind is understandable if you take into consideration where he is in his development career. For his sake, if he is unhappy with his work, I hope he finds a project or career path that makes him happy.
[+] [-] cesarsalazar12|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnny22|15 years ago|reply
Most folks know something about something and are just looking for a chance to explain their passion to somebody who acts like they might care.
[+] [-] jhuckestein|15 years ago|reply
Ha! q.e.d.
[+] [-] rcfox|15 years ago|reply
(You can integrate e^x, but you end up with e^x.)
[+] [-] kitt|15 years ago|reply
Programming can change the world, and starting a project over a weekend can be the first step. Can't really change the world, even a little bit, if you don't try.
So, yeah, this guy shouldn't go to SHDH. Doesn't mean we don't invite him. So, he doesn't get it. Maybe the girl he brings with him will.
[+] [-] kevingadd|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericdschmidt|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Lost_BiomedE|15 years ago|reply
I can't say if this is the case here, but I have found this type of reaction common among others: I think it is the same fear people have when they hear of new advances in biology. It is fear of the unknown, magnified by increasingly powerful tools.
[+] [-] egometry|15 years ago|reply
Arrogance (in my experience) tends to come from a small myopic subgroup where outside ideas are shunned. SHDH is far too big and has far too many people who like different things to have much of a cohesive snob element.
Nothing in common except that we're all people who hack in our spare time, and he does seem to take some time describing that this worldview is alien to him and that he doesn't enjoy being a software engineer...
[+] [-] rch|15 years ago|reply
So, you've never taken real analysis then. Good to know.
[+] [-] jasonkester|15 years ago|reply
It's like spending your childhood jumping up and down on a trampoline and then discovering that there were companies that would pay you six figures to jump on a trampoline all day. It's like the best job ever because you get to play on that trampoline. And then you'd go home and jump on your trampoline because that's your favorite thing to do.
I see people try to get in to computer programming by taking courses in college, and all I can think is that it's not going to work. If you wanted to program computers, you'd have a dozen years experience at it before you got to college. If all you do is look at it as a career like accounting or civil engineering, you're setting yourself up for a frustrating life.
[+] [-] krobertson|15 years ago|reply
I do what I do because I love it. If someone doesn't get it, feel bad for them.
[+] [-] gte910h|15 years ago|reply
I also get that he doesn't understand you get a LOT of this sort of talk in any industry.
Additionally, while service professionals don't often "do their job" on the weekend too (some do, volunteering to help charities/schools, etc, with their professional skills), many do (Have you ever heard of Pro Bono lawyering?).
Almost all craftspeople do obsess about their skills on their weekend. A relative of mine who outfits/tools factories builds hotrods on the weekend, mechanical engineers I know are gaga for building/designing stuff, artist types are veritable fountains of sidework. Hell, even my wife (analyst for charitable giving) analyzes the hell out board games and video games (which is amusing, we know she will beat all of us all the time after a few weeks of play).
[+] [-] tseabrooks|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jarin|15 years ago|reply
Conversely, I can think of a lot of crappy programmers who have not ever contributed to an open source project or even put together their own website.
[+] [-] kragen|15 years ago|reply
I understand that you find that belief "objectionable" and "pervasive". Have you considered the possibility that it might be correct? Because you have failed to present any arguments against it.
There's a pretty strong empirical argument for it, just from the observed populations, but there are also theoretical reasons to believe it:
• People who only program at work, and on closed-source projects, only ever get feedback on their programming within the context of work, from the other people who work at the same company, probably on the same project. Most projects and many companies are staffed entirely with bad programmers, so it's very likely that you'll never get a good programmer to look at your code that way, so you'll never get mentorship; you'll have to learn everything about programming by trial and error, which would take many lifetimes. At many companies, it's even worse than that — there's no code review.
• People who practice a skill 80 hours a week improve much faster than people who only practice it 40 hours a week. Many people don't even have the opportunity to program for anything close to 40 hours a week at work.
• People who practice something because they must, rather than because they love it, will never improve beyond the minimal level of competency demanded of them, because that takes further effort.
Now, there's a limit to how much you can productively practice a skill, and maybe you have a job where Rob Pike vets your checkins and that will suck up as much effort as you can manage to throw at it. But there was probably a time when you didn't, and there'll probably be another time when you don't.
[+] [-] mtodd|15 years ago|reply
It just seems like you're associating passion with unpleasantness. Does it make you uncomfortable to be around people that enjoy what they are doing passionately?
In my experience, I encounter very little douchebaggery in my community interactions. I don't want to be a dick, but it may have to do with your own view of your work (just a job, as opposed to a passion) that gets you around more douchebags.
There are lots of alphas out there that do condescend and patronize, but that's a characteristic (or character flaw) of that person, and not everyone. It's just far more obvious and annoying when you're not that type of person.
Why don't you find something that you're actually interested in doing for work?
[+] [-] elbrodeur|15 years ago|reply
He's exchanging units of time for units of currency; it's no wonder he doesn't understand why people get excited about building things. It's no wonder he doesn't understand the immense value generated by creating something new or solving problems that are difficult.
It's also unsurprising that he thinks one person typing into a terminal can't change the world.
"Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune." -Rohn