I have been playing dwarf fortress for about 7-8 years. If anybody has any questions feel free to ask me.
I think the difficulty of learning the game is overstated: if you follow a tutorial, use a graphics pack, and use dwarf therapist (dwarf therapist is a must, most experienced players also use this because it's just a better UI) I think you can get the hang of the game in a few hours of play time. Probably the biggest barrier to learning the game is the UX but if you're a programmer that will be much easier to learn. I recommend https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Quickstart_gu... and https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Dwarf_fortres... as guides, and I recommend downloading the "Lazy Newb Pack" version compatible with your operating system, as it makes switching graphics and managing utilities/settings very easy.
Learning the gameplay is reading a related wikipage, which is acceptable. The hard/annoying part is learning UX. It really shouldn't be that complicated. Talking to people in adventure mode, managing jobs (as you said, dwarf therapist is practically a must since the base interface is just horrible), managing armies, hospitals... everything is a chore and you need a tutorial for everything. And every UX in game is different.
To dig for example. You have to create a designation for it. But how do you know that unless you watched a video/read a tutorial? On top of that if something is wrong, the game gives you very little clue. Do you have a dwarf with digging task? Is he available? Does he have pick? Can he pathfind? The game gives you no answer other than not initiating the digging (edit actually my bad, i think it gives you some logs for some cases.). Stuff like that is a hard barrier for most players and they won't be able to continue unless they are really committed.
A few years ago i tried to get into this. Like I really tried. I too installed and used Dwarf Therapist.
here's where I struggled: I still wouldn't have the hang of managing the dwarves I had and then a new crop would come along. Even with all these tools it quickly descended into me not having any idea who was doing what or why. Or why they weren't doing the things I was asking them to do.
A lot of the things seemed way too roundabout to me too. Like I'd have chickens (or were they ducks? I forget) and I was attempting to breed them. But the whole process of making egg-laying boxes or nests or whatever was tedious and then you had to lock the door to stop the dwarves coming in and taking the eggs.
Likewise, i found the process of feeding the dwarves hard to manage largely because I couldn't easily figure out if there was any food, whether that was because no one was making any or that it was simply all getting eaten. Was it an issue of not having room to stockpile food? Or was the dwarf who could make food doing something else (possibly because he was the only person who could do that or he just happened to be the one who'd picked up the pick for some reason)?
So I never got to that point where I felt like I had a good grasp of my colony as a coherent unit and could then engage in flights of fancy.
I think the last time I tried I then got a monster invading and I hadn't figured out military yet. That was a whole new system to learn and I just lacked the motivation so stopped and never went back.
I was surprised how fast the (frequently inconsistent) keyboard commands just get into your fingers, where you don't think about it anymore.
Similarly for the graphics, and that applies to games in general. You really stop noticing the graphics around ~30mins into a session, because you're running this asynchronous simulation in your head that only needs minimal information to update. That might be a reason why we remember games we played a long time ago being a lot prettier or detailed.
I appreciate his effort (having played for decades), but that aside...the difficulty is knowing what's wrong and why something is happening.
The horrid military UI is inherent to the game. Bugs that are left for months (if not years) like the inability for seiges to enter your site (hiding just offscreen, slowly killing your CPU) or the current persistent bad memories, often makes aspects of the game unplayable WITHOUT the complexity and issues with mods that are necessary. Yes you can play the game in ASCII or with chopsticks or blindfolded with someone barking at what you need to do, but complexity and difficulty is not commensurate with fun or depth. DF is not the only game to fall into this trap.
DF has depth outside of the UI/setup/bugs, but onboarding is what Tarn is addressing (partly) in the Steam release. Good.
I think the difficulty of learning the game is on point.
For anyone doubting the complexity of Dwarf Fortress, the dying cats bug provides a fantastic glimpse.
> Cats have a self-cleaning interaction that contains the [IE_SYNDROME_TAG:SYN_INGESTED] tag [...] They might be walking through spilled alcohol, licking it off their fur and ingesting the drunkenness syndrome. Toady also said alcohol effects are related to body size, so it theoretically wouldn't take much to do them in.
> Haven't made a tavern yet myself, but does alcohol routinely end up on the floor?
So Dwarf Fortress simulates 1) spilling alcohol, creating puddles on the floor, 2) cats walking through puddles getting dirty with the puddle’s contents, 3) dirty cats having the desire to clean themselves, 4) self-cleaning leads to the substance being ingested, 5) ingestion of alcohol intoxicates the cats as a function of their body size
I attempted to play DF in high school many years ago, booted it up and was immediately overwhelmed. I ended up uninstalling it and forgetting about the game for a long time. Recently I remembered the game and gave it another shot, and have been having a lot of fun [0]. Having the noob pack available to try out some titlesets made it a lot more approachable as well. And there have been a lot of quality of life improvements for new players; I think the Steam release will add a lot more in this direction as well.
There is also a large community of content creators who play the game and post the stories of their fortresses. This can be an interesting place to jump in. I enjoy Kruggsmash's videos [1] and if you haven't heard it yet, a classic DF story is Boatmurdered, from the Something Awful forums. I recently listened to this reading of the story: [2]
Head over to the Bay12 Games forums (https://bay12games.com/dwarves/) and find one of the noob packs for your platform (there are versions for macOS, Windows, and Linux). Download and install it. It'll take a few hours to create the world, so let it run over night or plan to watch DF tutorials while it runs.
I can see it being very fun for a certain kind of person, but I don’t think most people will get a ton of pleasure from just making your base bigger without any end goal
Nice to see NoClip getting some love on HN. I'm an unabashed Danny O'Dwyer fan and I think this community would enjoy all of NoClip's work if this is your first taste. His docs cover quite a few behind the scenes stories that I feel all us startup / programmer folks can relate to. His work captures the heart of what it means to be a creator. My dream is that one day he makes a doc about the community around Vim. It'll never happen, but a boy can dream.
NoClip is fantastic; I also really enjoyed the Rocket League[1] and Half-Life[2] documentaries. Danny just seems like a genuinely nice guy who just loves to tell the stories behind these games, it's awesome to see the success he's had with NoClip.
I would love to be able to read the Dwarf Fortress source someday. I know Tarn considers Dwarf Fortress to be his life's work, so it would be amazing if he decided to release the source someday -- even if that's 10, 20, 30 years from now.
He has said multiple times that he will release the source if he dies, so long as foul play is not suspected in his death.
I think for him it's more about being able to "own" dwarf fortress. If he open sourced it, large teams of people might be able to develop it much faster than he could, and if he doesn't really want to manage an open source project, that might end up in him losing control/maintaining a less popular game than whatever gets forked out. It's also widely suspected that the codebase is really bad, and he might not want to manage a clean up of it that makes it 'better' but which results in him not understanding it as well.
For the time being you can enjoy the lisp/perl/ruby reverse-engineering/c++ decompiler tool used in df-structures[1] that was made to make dfhack[2] and Dwarf Therapist possible that were made to make managing a 100+ dwarves fortress possible.
He's hinted that he could release the sources if the Steam/Itch sales make enough money that he could stop worrying about the stability of his income in the long term. The worry was that if DF got open-sourced and forked, people would give more money to the forked, polished version as opposed to the one version Toady is working on, but he wouldn't mind if he had enough money in the long term.
That's great but I wish the creator'd do something about death by FPS.
Which is arguably how I end up all the time.
I like to build big complex fortresses with a lot of industry and a lot of mining. And oftentimes I end up with a lot of animals to produce meat, leather and bones (had a very promising Draltha industry at one point). It's quite disheartening to put time in a fortress and "die" by FPS just because you are doing good.
Will still buy the Steam version (been supporting them for a while now).
Personally, I'm more excited for the myths and magic release that he's been working on for the last couple years. That's going to completely change the game and really make each world feel unique.
I love dwarf fortress, i've played it for years, but I always hit its limits what feels like far too soon after each release.
Graphics packs have always existed. But I am glad they are putting it on Steam. Hopefully doing so will make it easier to send money Toady and his brother's way. I know he is struggling with cancer right now... sad stuff..
DF is wondrous not just because of what it is (I think it's one of the greatest living examples of the artistic potential of computers as a medium), but also because of how it came about. In a society which does about nil to allow for this kind of deep creative work to flourish (I mean, was Toady basically living on ramen for most of the 2000s?), the Adams brothers set out and did it anyway. And we're getting to see it happen in real time!
After watching this I went to go check in on my last fort that I played which was about two years ago. Turns out the countless hours I spent herding dorfs in college have left me with an instinctive memory of the key bindings over a decade later. DF has such incredible depth and nearly infinite replayability. It struck me today that despite all that time playing I have never actually made it to a fort that was able to produce adamantine weapons, and you know what? Loosing really IS fun! DF is one of those works of art that truly elevates our sense of the possible. Now, if only we could convince Toady to work on multithreading ....
>Now, if only we could convince Toady to work on multithreading ....
I have thought about this problem mostly because Minecraft runs like shit when you overload it with 300 mods.
It's much harder than you think. Unfortunately there is no "easy" solution. Converting single threaded code 1:1 would only be possible if you could guarantee that no deadlocks will occur and that requires trickery unique to the problem at hand. It's not really a scalable solution. If you can, you should try to avoid acquiring more than one lock at a time but that also means you will have to rewrite everything to use message passing. Rewrites mean bugs and no new features for a long time.
Or just opening the graphics interface ever so slightly. Those menus do not need to be so convoluted as they are, and plenty of fans would jump in to do a UI overhaul if allowed.
I love DF. I played it for so many years that I knew all the bindings I needed by heart. It was insane.
But I left it alone many years ago, like 6 years ago at least.
And after that I feel like you can get the same joy from simpler games, and prettier games, like Rimworld and Oxygen not included.
Sure they'll never be as complex and deep as DF but they're much simpler to get into after not having played and they don't have a steep learning curve.
To this day I'm on the lookout for DF-like games on Steam. And I'm still waiting for DF to come out on Steam to give it another shot.
I tried to get into DF by watching some of the better play through videos. It was fun but in the end it just inspired me to pick up Oxygen Not Included again.
+1 for Rimworld. I've sunk hundreds, if not thousands, of hours into that game. It doesn't have the same depth as Dwarf Fortress, but still has a lot of depth and a ton of Fun. Especially with Randy Random and his random event generator
gnomoria is different insofar as the gnomes don't have personality. this makes it more of a "pure" sandbox simulation game rather than a story generator (which is probably the biggest part of DF/rimworlds appeal).
Dwarf Fortress sessions have been fun, but Oxygen Not Included provides a lot of the same type of satisfaction (unfortunately with no combat aspect, but much more complicated designing and building of systems) with great graphics and great UX. It's 40% off on Steam right now:
The simulation is highly detailed, but in a different way than DF: liquids, gases, creatures in the environment, and networks of machines that you build to produce food and oxygen, recycle various elements, manage germs, and generally keep your base alive. ONI is made by Klei Entertainment, an experienced team, which is primarily known for the game series called Don't Starve. It was in early access for a while and launched in July 2019. They've been adding more content periodically for free since then.
I've enjoyed games of DF, but I'd find it hard to come back to after having played games like Oxygen Not Included, Prison Architect, Rimworld, Frostpunk, Banished, and so on. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with for the Steam release, though, and maybe be willing to give it another try.
Factorio is absolutely amazing, but that's an entirely different kind of game.
I have learned to enjoy the game, but I enjoy it despite the abismal UX. I know other people can interiorize it, and that's cool, but it is not my case.
To be precise: I don't mind having keyboard shortcuts for lots of things. I think that's good UX. But all options should be mouse-clickable too.
I find the separation between Designations, Piles and Burrows (or whatever they are called) very confusing. In my mind they should be the same kind of "thing" in the UI (a "zone"). Farms are their own "kind of zone", with a custom UX which looks like the one used for building walls (which is just bad imho, just let us click on the two corners please).
That brings us to my biggest grip: lack of consistency across different windows. The initial overmap has a set of keys. The initial "prepare your journey carefully" has a different set of keys for moving around the menus. Then the zone designation window has yet another set of keys to navigate through the menu. The fortress task manager (where you queue new tasks) has another. When a merchant caravan asks you what items they should bring next year, that also comes with a custom UI which is not used anywhere else (and also has its custom set of keys). The steps required to set tasks on each dwarf are so contorted that there is a dedicated tool (Dwarf Therapist) just for that.
And over all this, there is the military management window, which I have never been able to master (I just rely on traps and atom smashers to deal with baddies, mostly because of this, and the fact that ranged attacks have been broken for a while). I wish Dwarf Therapist could handle that one as well.
This lack of consistency combined with the lack of mouse support means that in order to play this game one needs to learn and interiorize a bunch of keystrokes /for each single window in the game/. I understand that for others this is not a huge deal, but this really puts me off. I don't have the mental agility I used to have when I was younger and makes the game a struggle for me.
But the stories produced are great.
On that note, if you just want to see Dwarf Fortress stories and don't want to have to deal with all the UX issues I just mentioned, I recommend the Kruggsmash channel. He really takes this game to another level:
I wish they hadn't stopped the DF TALK podcasts. Listening to Tarn talking in crazy detail about the 10 year plan for some new feature was one of the sweetest ways to fall asleep.
I've been thinking for a while that the creator of Dwarf Fortress should win. Macarthur award. If any nominators read the HN comments, please consider!
I played DF for a while and seems to me that its main usability problem is not text graphics, but general bad UI design. It can be used as a cautionary example of why action-object (instead of object-action) approach and many-modes lead to bad usability.
[+] [-] opportune|5 years ago|reply
I think the difficulty of learning the game is overstated: if you follow a tutorial, use a graphics pack, and use dwarf therapist (dwarf therapist is a must, most experienced players also use this because it's just a better UI) I think you can get the hang of the game in a few hours of play time. Probably the biggest barrier to learning the game is the UX but if you're a programmer that will be much easier to learn. I recommend https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Quickstart_gu... and https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Dwarf_fortres... as guides, and I recommend downloading the "Lazy Newb Pack" version compatible with your operating system, as it makes switching graphics and managing utilities/settings very easy.
[+] [-] shultays|5 years ago|reply
To dig for example. You have to create a designation for it. But how do you know that unless you watched a video/read a tutorial? On top of that if something is wrong, the game gives you very little clue. Do you have a dwarf with digging task? Is he available? Does he have pick? Can he pathfind? The game gives you no answer other than not initiating the digging (edit actually my bad, i think it gives you some logs for some cases.). Stuff like that is a hard barrier for most players and they won't be able to continue unless they are really committed.
[+] [-] tetris11|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cletus|5 years ago|reply
here's where I struggled: I still wouldn't have the hang of managing the dwarves I had and then a new crop would come along. Even with all these tools it quickly descended into me not having any idea who was doing what or why. Or why they weren't doing the things I was asking them to do.
A lot of the things seemed way too roundabout to me too. Like I'd have chickens (or were they ducks? I forget) and I was attempting to breed them. But the whole process of making egg-laying boxes or nests or whatever was tedious and then you had to lock the door to stop the dwarves coming in and taking the eggs.
Likewise, i found the process of feeding the dwarves hard to manage largely because I couldn't easily figure out if there was any food, whether that was because no one was making any or that it was simply all getting eaten. Was it an issue of not having room to stockpile food? Or was the dwarf who could make food doing something else (possibly because he was the only person who could do that or he just happened to be the one who'd picked up the pick for some reason)?
So I never got to that point where I felt like I had a good grasp of my colony as a coherent unit and could then engage in flights of fancy.
I think the last time I tried I then got a monster invading and I hadn't figured out military yet. That was a whole new system to learn and I just lacked the motivation so stopped and never went back.
[+] [-] yvdriess|5 years ago|reply
Similarly for the graphics, and that applies to games in general. You really stop noticing the graphics around ~30mins into a session, because you're running this asynchronous simulation in your head that only needs minimal information to update. That might be a reason why we remember games we played a long time ago being a lot prettier or detailed.
[+] [-] kagbor|5 years ago|reply
Doesn't sound overstated at all...
[+] [-] Supermancho|5 years ago|reply
The horrid military UI is inherent to the game. Bugs that are left for months (if not years) like the inability for seiges to enter your site (hiding just offscreen, slowly killing your CPU) or the current persistent bad memories, often makes aspects of the game unplayable WITHOUT the complexity and issues with mods that are necessary. Yes you can play the game in ASCII or with chopsticks or blindfolded with someone barking at what you need to do, but complexity and difficulty is not commensurate with fun or depth. DF is not the only game to fall into this trap.
DF has depth outside of the UI/setup/bugs, but onboarding is what Tarn is addressing (partly) in the Steam release. Good.
I think the difficulty of learning the game is on point.
[+] [-] pkilgore|5 years ago|reply
> - 0009195: [Dwarf Mode -- Pets] Cats dying for no reason - alcohol poisoning? - resolved.
[1] https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.p...
[+] [-] KMnO4|5 years ago|reply
> Cats have a self-cleaning interaction that contains the [IE_SYNDROME_TAG:SYN_INGESTED] tag [...] They might be walking through spilled alcohol, licking it off their fur and ingesting the drunkenness syndrome. Toady also said alcohol effects are related to body size, so it theoretically wouldn't take much to do them in.
> Haven't made a tavern yet myself, but does alcohol routinely end up on the floor?
So Dwarf Fortress simulates 1) spilling alcohol, creating puddles on the floor, 2) cats walking through puddles getting dirty with the puddle’s contents, 3) dirty cats having the desire to clean themselves, 4) self-cleaning leads to the substance being ingested, 5) ingestion of alcohol intoxicates the cats as a function of their body size
[+] [-] eindiran|5 years ago|reply
There is also a large community of content creators who play the game and post the stories of their fortresses. This can be an interesting place to jump in. I enjoy Kruggsmash's videos [1] and if you haven't heard it yet, a classic DF story is Boatmurdered, from the Something Awful forums. I recently listened to this reading of the story: [2]
[0] https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Fun
[1] https://www.youtube.com/user/kruggsmash
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZF59Dkk73g
[+] [-] eindiran|5 years ago|reply
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtQyRNNEMRA
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTeQJOC1H38
Head over to the Bay12 Games forums (https://bay12games.com/dwarves/) and find one of the noob packs for your platform (there are versions for macOS, Windows, and Linux). Download and install it. It'll take a few hours to create the world, so let it run over night or plan to watch DF tutorials while it runs.
[+] [-] dmonitor|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snide|5 years ago|reply
Some of my favs
The untold story of Astroneer's development https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfUjl4owxTQ
Doom: To hell and back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS6SBnccxMA
[+] [-] dgritsko|5 years ago|reply
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om0j9SLBDPQ
[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQLEW1c-69c
[+] [-] oakesm9|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Trasmatta|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] opportune|5 years ago|reply
I think for him it's more about being able to "own" dwarf fortress. If he open sourced it, large teams of people might be able to develop it much faster than he could, and if he doesn't really want to manage an open source project, that might end up in him losing control/maintaining a less popular game than whatever gets forked out. It's also widely suspected that the codebase is really bad, and he might not want to manage a clean up of it that makes it 'better' but which results in him not understanding it as well.
[+] [-] pengaru|5 years ago|reply
If LCS is any indication, the code in DF will be a horrible mess.
[0] https://sourceforge.net/projects/lcsgame/
[+] [-] lstodd|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures [2] https://github.com/DFHack/dfhack
[+] [-] throwaway4666|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paloaltokid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] simaldeff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grawprog|5 years ago|reply
I love dwarf fortress, i've played it for years, but I always hit its limits what feels like far too soon after each release.
[+] [-] herdodoodo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AdmiralAsshat|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dopu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperion2010|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imtringued|5 years ago|reply
I have thought about this problem mostly because Minecraft runs like shit when you overload it with 300 mods.
It's much harder than you think. Unfortunately there is no "easy" solution. Converting single threaded code 1:1 would only be possible if you could guarantee that no deadlocks will occur and that requires trickery unique to the problem at hand. It's not really a scalable solution. If you can, you should try to avoid acquiring more than one lock at a time but that also means you will have to rewrite everything to use message passing. Rewrites mean bugs and no new features for a long time.
[+] [-] tetris11|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] INTPenis|5 years ago|reply
But I left it alone many years ago, like 6 years ago at least.
And after that I feel like you can get the same joy from simpler games, and prettier games, like Rimworld and Oxygen not included.
Sure they'll never be as complex and deep as DF but they're much simpler to get into after not having played and they don't have a steep learning curve.
To this day I'm on the lookout for DF-like games on Steam. And I'm still waiting for DF to come out on Steam to give it another shot.
[+] [-] hinkley|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 29athrowaway|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jarwain|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ducaale|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA
[+] [-] sgillen|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 29athrowaway|5 years ago|reply
You have to build a shelter, craft some rudimentary weapons, hunt, and then survive your first raid.
[+] [-] stefs|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] herewulf|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MintelIE|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jcrites|5 years ago|reply
https://store.steampowered.com/app/457140/Oxygen_Not_Include...
The simulation is highly detailed, but in a different way than DF: liquids, gases, creatures in the environment, and networks of machines that you build to produce food and oxygen, recycle various elements, manage germs, and generally keep your base alive. ONI is made by Klei Entertainment, an experienced team, which is primarily known for the game series called Don't Starve. It was in early access for a while and launched in July 2019. They've been adding more content periodically for free since then.
I've enjoyed games of DF, but I'd find it hard to come back to after having played games like Oxygen Not Included, Prison Architect, Rimworld, Frostpunk, Banished, and so on. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with for the Steam release, though, and maybe be willing to give it another try.
Factorio is absolutely amazing, but that's an entirely different kind of game.
[+] [-] otikik|5 years ago|reply
To be precise: I don't mind having keyboard shortcuts for lots of things. I think that's good UX. But all options should be mouse-clickable too.
I find the separation between Designations, Piles and Burrows (or whatever they are called) very confusing. In my mind they should be the same kind of "thing" in the UI (a "zone"). Farms are their own "kind of zone", with a custom UX which looks like the one used for building walls (which is just bad imho, just let us click on the two corners please).
That brings us to my biggest grip: lack of consistency across different windows. The initial overmap has a set of keys. The initial "prepare your journey carefully" has a different set of keys for moving around the menus. Then the zone designation window has yet another set of keys to navigate through the menu. The fortress task manager (where you queue new tasks) has another. When a merchant caravan asks you what items they should bring next year, that also comes with a custom UI which is not used anywhere else (and also has its custom set of keys). The steps required to set tasks on each dwarf are so contorted that there is a dedicated tool (Dwarf Therapist) just for that.
And over all this, there is the military management window, which I have never been able to master (I just rely on traps and atom smashers to deal with baddies, mostly because of this, and the fact that ranged attacks have been broken for a while). I wish Dwarf Therapist could handle that one as well.
This lack of consistency combined with the lack of mouse support means that in order to play this game one needs to learn and interiorize a bunch of keystrokes /for each single window in the game/. I understand that for others this is not a huge deal, but this really puts me off. I don't have the mental agility I used to have when I was younger and makes the game a struggle for me.
But the stories produced are great.
On that note, if you just want to see Dwarf Fortress stories and don't want to have to deal with all the UX issues I just mentioned, I recommend the Kruggsmash channel. He really takes this game to another level:
https://www.youtube.com/user/kruggsmash
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] totetsu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ckemere|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zajio1am|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hu3|5 years ago|reply
I've been trying to learn game design.
[+] [-] nix23|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] speps|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/
[+] [-] playworker|5 years ago|reply
https://www.gridsagegames.com/cogmind/
https://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/
[+] [-] herdodoodo|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]