Great to see another layer of transparency in ios14.
Bit I wonder why everyone talking about one specific app?
I see a huge bias towards TikTok in headlines
"iOS 14 caught TikTok and other apps spying on the clipboard" [0]
"iOS 14 beta shows apps like TikTok still spy on your iPhone" [1]
There a bunch of apps like VICE, Google News, WSJ that has been caught doing exactly the same. [2]
I may find the explanation why TikTok did that. In China WeChat blocks direct links to their competitors. So apps like Taobao or Douyin have to find a workaround for deeplinks.
When you want to share the video from Douyin with a friend in WeChat, Douyin generates the following message.
In WeChat the link is not clickbale. To see the content user has to copy full text and go to the Douyin. The app will read the clipboard and perform the transition to the video. On the link below you can find the video - explanation [3]
Probably they had re-use some code in TikTok. Definitely they need to be more accurate towards data safety but I don't think they really made a pipeline for spying using clipboard.
There is a lot of buzz around TikTok these days, but I want to get an answer from other apps as well.
> Bit I wonder why everyone talking about one specific app?
In this particular case, I think it's because the person who apparently discovered it claims that other apps "don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does". [0]
> For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It's like comparing a cup of water to the ocean - they just don't compare.
Just because other apps do that is no excuse for bad behaviour. Almost all apps get flack for bad behaviour. Tiktok is the newest popular thing on the block and it is expected to be widely covered.
Honestly it is okay to discuss the bar behaviours of an app without blaming other apps.
I think it's probably because they were already in a series of such mess-ups so someone decided to check it with Tik Tok and that went viral. Also, it's a social media app that a lot of people use, so using that as part of the headlines for Media gains eyeballs.
> Bit I wonder why everyone talking about one specific app? I see a huge bias towards TikTok in headlines
1) TikTok is one of the most popular apps and was the second most downloaded last year [0]. Come on, they are at the top. That's why we talk about them.
2) TikTok has been caught in a lot of privacy scandals that appear to be more egregious than other apps.
3) There's a deep seated fear, and evidence, that Chinese companies share their data with their government.
It is all three, but mostly #1.
> [0][1]
These are the same event, why are you posting two instances of the same event like "TikTok is unfairly being targeted?"
> There a bunch of apps like VICE, Google News, WSJ that has been caught doing exactly the same. [2]
People are upset about that too. But frankly, VICE and the WSJ don't have as many downloads as TikTok. Even if you combine their total downloads they don't account for a tenth (<1/10th!!!!) of TikTok's downloads. Frankly I don't understand the logic here. Ignore the top dog just because others are doing the same thing? Just because others do it doesn't make it right and of course we should go after the one that's the biggest.
If you're bigger, people pay more attention to you. That's why TikTok is getting "singled out." BECAUSE TIKTOK IS ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR APPS IN THE WORLD! It doesn't matter what other apps do. That doesn't justify bad behavior. Am I the only one whose mom said "If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?"
The security implications of allowing communications on a platform that is subject to the absolute control of a foreign government, seems like a very very bad idea. That can be a lesson learned the easy way or the hard way.
I honestly think we give Chinese apps too much equal footing. In about 5-8 years, when China has insane surveillance network around the world (they already have), this comment is going to sound the most sensible thing to do - blanket ban any application developed and served by the CCP or similar government.
People teeter-totter about righteousness and freedom of choice, but IMO we need to stop feeding the CCP with more power/$$$/influence ... NOW ... Freedom of choice is great when there is fairness and democratic values built in, when the government isn't on some Han-supremacy drug and expansionist motives.
Someone will inevitably respond with whataboutism and smear American companies into the mix as if they're expressing their understanding of hypocracy and one-sidedness. It is supposed to be one-sided. The west offered two-way street which China declined to walk on. So, now all bets are off. Equivalency with the western apps/services/goods is no longer a valid counter argument.
On fair, just, and rational grounds - I am a progressive. In unfair, unjust and irrational waters - I am a conservative.
Well, I'm more concerned about my platform being subject to the control of my own government. Because I don't care very much about foreign governments given I happen to be a western citizen that has nothing to do with that countries. But what about ours, do you think our government is better than theirs? For how long?
Most of the anti-TikTok comments that have emerged recently are beyond hysterical. We are arguing about China using this app as a primary nexus of intelligence gathering, in a world where they already have the US government’s entire OPM database?[1]
A lot of apps are doing the stupid clipboard detection thing. As others have commented, there’s reasons for this that range from spam detection to link shortening. It’s lousy, I agree, but this has been a very common thing in a pre-iOS 14 world.
>In June 2015, the United States Office of Personnel Management (OPM) announced that it had been the target of a data breach targeting the records of as many as four million people
I'm pretty sure that tiktok has more than 4M users. I guess you can argue that OPM has more % of "high value" users compared to tiktok, but it's also 5 years out of date and contains different sets of data entirely. OPM data doesn't have your minute-by-minute location history and clipboard history, for instance.
The OPM database was a force multiplier, not a direct source of valuable data.
What it allows the Chinese government to do is filter any other source of data (such as TikTok) and exclude anyone in the US who doesn't have a security clearance. You then have vastly less raw intelligence to sift and try to find the accidental video someone posted with a whiteboard full of secrets in the background.
Intelligence gathering with OPM kind of leaks is passive activity, which can potentially be used for leverage.
Platforms like TikTok are active propaganda tools already, and can be used to shape discourse in democracies.
It is a major concern whether such tools are owned by foreign governments (tikTok) or private companies who do not need to comply with any regulations(Facebook twitter) etc.
When I was younger I would laugh at those ridiculous "forwards from grandma" about, like, secret Satanic messages embedded in Super Mario. Every kid knew these were nonsense; we just assumed it was a consequence of that generation growing up without technology.
I was wrong. Every generation is equally prone to hysteria. We learn nothing.
Too little, too late. Already forced the family to uninstall it and its gone forever. Wish the kids could understand that its spyware with access to a lot of toxic social media.
> Already forced the family to uninstall it and its gone forever.
Honestly you’d be better off educating them and telling them it’s a good idea than forcing them to jettison an app they probably love. Tons of apps do this (as discovered in iOS 14) and I highly suggest not doing a crusade against one when a lot more do it. See: https://youtu.be/pRSWdtoUAjo
Seems feasible it was a spam check. All my sensitive data is over in a separate work apps launcher anyway.
Personally, I find lots of useful content on TikTok. There's a divorce lawyer I've actually called in person. There's a nurse who gives coronavirus tips. There's a Chinese teacher. There's an idol who did a funny hand wash dance without showing a lot of skin and who does funny things with her cats. There's a fitness guy who always has a new way to do push ups or whatever. There's a chiro with back pain tips, etc.. One coworker does dances with her daughter - so maybe it helps parent-child bonding.
I'm happy that ios14 is adding more transparency on whats apps are accessing like this clipboard situation. I'd love to see more of these, like camera roll and mic access.
My clipboard frequently holds sensitive or even compromising information. If it isn't providing direct access to my finances, it might be something that could be used to blackmail me.
No, these random apps are not my spouse. They should not get access to sensitive info without explicit permission.
Google Maps has a clear use case for accessing the clipboard. If Tok Tok only accessed the clipboard on launch to check for a Tik Tok URL, that might be one thing, but there's no clear reason Tik Tok would need access to the clipboard literally every 3 keystrokes.
There is no paranoia. There is no reason for tiktok to access by clipboard and snoop into what I have copied there. It is bad behaviour - nefarious or not.
I'm starting to think these devices need to provide examples when throwing up the permissions prompt. Worst case examples of what this permission can enable so that app developers might at least try to limit their requests.
Why do phones need the clipboard at all? There is a 'share with' infrastructure. Why not explicitly send copied data to the desired app directly instead of storing it in a central place?
Tim tok has no business snooping into by clipboard. It is bad behaviour irrespective of if it was nefarious or not.
No need to justify this by bringing up behaviour of apps.
Too little too late. They should be barred from US markets however there may be worse actors out there that borderline criminals could call ‘industry standard’.
TikTok also is violating COPPA. Any underage child that signs up with a Google Account, you can clearly see from the Google account settings that they are collecting email addresses and other personal information. I believe Google and other app store providers should just remove them.
[+] [-] zkid18|5 years ago|reply
Bit I wonder why everyone talking about one specific app? I see a huge bias towards TikTok in headlines
"iOS 14 caught TikTok and other apps spying on the clipboard" [0]
"iOS 14 beta shows apps like TikTok still spy on your iPhone" [1]
There a bunch of apps like VICE, Google News, WSJ that has been caught doing exactly the same. [2]
I may find the explanation why TikTok did that. In China WeChat blocks direct links to their competitors. So apps like Taobao or Douyin have to find a workaround for deeplinks. When you want to share the video from Douyin with a friend in WeChat, Douyin generates the following message.
在东京刚毕业入职三个月的职场小白 搬家找房 坚持更新#日本vlog #东京 https://v.douyin.com/J8ceMYY/ 复制此链接，打开【抖音短视频】，直接观看视频！
In WeChat the link is not clickbale. To see the content user has to copy full text and go to the Douyin. The app will read the clipboard and perform the transition to the video. On the link below you can find the video - explanation [3]
Probably they had re-use some code in TikTok. Definitely they need to be more accurate towards data safety but I don't think they really made a pipeline for spying using clipboard.
There is a lot of buzz around TikTok these days, but I want to get an answer from other apps as well.
[0] https://bgr.com/2020/06/26/ios-14-beta-privacy-features-tikt...
[1] https://mashable.com/article/iphone-ios-14-privacy-clipboard...
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRSWdtoUAjo
[3] https://twitter.com/kidrulit/status/1277629462721384448
[+] [-] stronglikedan|5 years ago|reply
In this particular case, I think it's because the person who apparently discovered it claims that other apps "don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does". [0]
> For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It's like comparing a cup of water to the ocean - they just don't compare.
[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...
[+] [-] thewindow|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erk__|5 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/lolpython/status/1276235830692941829
[+] [-] amrrs|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xster|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] godelski|5 years ago|reply
1) TikTok is one of the most popular apps and was the second most downloaded last year [0]. Come on, they are at the top. That's why we talk about them.
2) TikTok has been caught in a lot of privacy scandals that appear to be more egregious than other apps.
3) There's a deep seated fear, and evidence, that Chinese companies share their data with their government.
It is all three, but mostly #1.
> [0][1]
These are the same event, why are you posting two instances of the same event like "TikTok is unfairly being targeted?"
> There a bunch of apps like VICE, Google News, WSJ that has been caught doing exactly the same. [2]
People are upset about that too. But frankly, VICE and the WSJ don't have as many downloads as TikTok. Even if you combine their total downloads they don't account for a tenth (<1/10th!!!!) of TikTok's downloads. Frankly I don't understand the logic here. Ignore the top dog just because others are doing the same thing? Just because others do it doesn't make it right and of course we should go after the one that's the biggest.
If you're bigger, people pay more attention to you. That's why TikTok is getting "singled out." BECAUSE TIKTOK IS ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR APPS IN THE WORLD! It doesn't matter what other apps do. That doesn't justify bad behavior. Am I the only one whose mom said "If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?"
[0] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-most-downloaded-apps...
[+] [-] ebg13|5 years ago|reply
I'm going to start by saying "No they don't." They don't _have_ to do anything. They decided to.
> In WeChat the link is not clickable. To see the content user has to copy full text and go to the Douyin. The app will read the clipboard
They could have chosen to give you a place to put links without snooping your clipboard. That was a decision they made.
> I don't think they really made a pipeline for spying using clipboard.
Does the app spy on the user's clipboard? Yes. QED.
[+] [-] xijinping250|5 years ago|reply
Why every app(facebook,twitter,youtube....) of US is banned by China? But China's company can earn money in America?
Why US government allow this happen? They are huge threat to the safe of America!
[+] [-] rdlecler1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] systemvoltage|5 years ago|reply
People teeter-totter about righteousness and freedom of choice, but IMO we need to stop feeding the CCP with more power/$$$/influence ... NOW ... Freedom of choice is great when there is fairness and democratic values built in, when the government isn't on some Han-supremacy drug and expansionist motives.
Someone will inevitably respond with whataboutism and smear American companies into the mix as if they're expressing their understanding of hypocracy and one-sidedness. It is supposed to be one-sided. The west offered two-way street which China declined to walk on. So, now all bets are off. Equivalency with the western apps/services/goods is no longer a valid counter argument.
On fair, just, and rational grounds - I am a progressive. In unfair, unjust and irrational waters - I am a conservative.
[+] [-] severino|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] president|5 years ago|reply
Especially a foreign government that is considered a top adversary by the US and vice-versa.
[+] [-] radikalerludwig|5 years ago|reply
I'm sure you would argue that Google, MS and Apple are completely independent of the US government.
[+] [-] grecy|5 years ago|reply
National Security letters mean that for 95.75% of the world's population, what you just said applies to the USA.
[+] [-] numair|5 years ago|reply
A lot of apps are doing the stupid clipboard detection thing. As others have commented, there’s reasons for this that range from spam detection to link shortening. It’s lousy, I agree, but this has been a very common thing in a pre-iOS 14 world.
1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Manageme...
[+] [-] gruez|5 years ago|reply
I'm pretty sure that tiktok has more than 4M users. I guess you can argue that OPM has more % of "high value" users compared to tiktok, but it's also 5 years out of date and contains different sets of data entirely. OPM data doesn't have your minute-by-minute location history and clipboard history, for instance.
[+] [-] mike_d|5 years ago|reply
What it allows the Chinese government to do is filter any other source of data (such as TikTok) and exclude anyone in the US who doesn't have a security clearance. You then have vastly less raw intelligence to sift and try to find the accidental video someone posted with a whiteboard full of secrets in the background.
[+] [-] manquer|5 years ago|reply
Platforms like TikTok are active propaganda tools already, and can be used to shape discourse in democracies.
It is a major concern whether such tools are owned by foreign governments (tikTok) or private companies who do not need to comply with any regulations(Facebook twitter) etc.
[+] [-] knzhou|5 years ago|reply
I was wrong. Every generation is equally prone to hysteria. We learn nothing.
[+] [-] abledon|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apta|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] annoyingnoob|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shank|5 years ago|reply
Honestly you’d be better off educating them and telling them it’s a good idea than forcing them to jettison an app they probably love. Tons of apps do this (as discovered in iOS 14) and I highly suggest not doing a crusade against one when a lot more do it. See: https://youtu.be/pRSWdtoUAjo
[+] [-] nsxwolf|5 years ago|reply
Me: "No. It is Chinese spyware."
My Daughter: "<so and so from school> has TikTok!"
Me: "<so and so> is a Chinese asset!"
My Daughter: "No she's not!"
Every day.
[+] [-] lnanek2|5 years ago|reply
Personally, I find lots of useful content on TikTok. There's a divorce lawyer I've actually called in person. There's a nurse who gives coronavirus tips. There's a Chinese teacher. There's an idol who did a funny hand wash dance without showing a lot of skin and who does funny things with her cats. There's a fitness guy who always has a new way to do push ups or whatever. There's a chiro with back pain tips, etc.. One coworker does dances with her daughter - so maybe it helps parent-child bonding.
[+] [-] vmception|5 years ago|reply
is it though?
do you honestly believe that?
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nickthegreek|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Calvin02|5 years ago|reply
So do Facebook and Instagram, I’m sure.
The level of paranoia in the Valley is astounding.
[+] [-] warent|5 years ago|reply
No, these random apps are not my spouse. They should not get access to sensitive info without explicit permission.
[+] [-] wycy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thewindow|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wuunderbar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grecy|5 years ago|reply
I wonder if they've been checking out my clipboard contents.
[1] https://www.ghacks.net/2014/01/08/block-websites-reading-mod...
[+] [-] dagav|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jb775|5 years ago|reply
I feel like every time I submit an app update I get questioned about why my app needs access to $xyz feature.
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ebg13|5 years ago|reply
Do you really think so?
[+] [-] chrisshroba|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jp42|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...
[+] [-] apta|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] feross|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brightball|5 years ago|reply
It seems like unless you need direct access to the camera or it’s a game a web version should be fine.
[+] [-] hnick|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] racl101|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toohotatopic|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thewindow|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qserasera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] techntoke|5 years ago|reply