[pyromine]

> Or a bike, which is a thing, that people ride to and from work, even in "rural" areas. No gas and no insurance, even for an electric one (and those have come down quite a bit in price, to the point where the only cheaper cars are absolute beaters).

> Even "rural" cities/towns often have buses, too. They don't always have the most exhaustive coverage, but bikes can make up for that for the "last mile" of each way's commute (especially if the bus has a bike rack on it, which is becoming increasingly common for exactly this reason and because it's relatively cheap compared to the cost of the bus itself).

Bikes are not a viable commuting option in most of America, you cannot transport groceries or children effectively on a bike. This is the strawiest of straw men arguments.

[labcomputer]

Children of certain ages are challenging, I'll grant you, but the rest of this is just dripping with privilege.

Go visit any of the rougher parts of a big city, and you'll find plenty of low income people transporting groceries and commuting on bike (You can find them in small towns, too). Look for people with plastic shopping bags slung from the bars. It's not just viable, but absolutely essential.

And it's not limited to just people with low income, either. A rack and a set of nice panniers can easily carry a week's worth of groceries for a single person, including bulky items like milk.

[yellowapple]

> you cannot transport groceries or children effectively on a bike.

I had a basket on my bike (hacked together with a plastic crate and some bungie cords) that worked great for hauling groceries (and computer parts / tools - hell, even whole towers - when I was doing freelance computer repair during various periods of unemployment), and I know plenty of people who have little to no issue with bike strollers/trailers for hauling kids.

[folkhack]

> Bikes are not a viable commuting option in most of America

Yea - this was the main point bud. You ever ride your bike 10 miles to get to work in the dead of winter in Iowa or Minnesota?

Like I'm glad you were able to rig a basket and all for your bike but acting like your story is relevant for people who are in actual financial hardships is disingenuous and weird. You're pissing people off who actually struggled... like didn't have food sorta struggle. Stop.