Without respect to the facts, it's funny as hell to see this called "a new low" when browser bundling is what got them sued by the United States 20 years ago.
I'm sitting over here in my rocking chair thinking, "You damned kids don't know how good you've got it."
There's a Simpson's episode where Homer has a business that Bill Gates wants to buy, and he refuses. So Bill tells his bodyguards to 'buy him out' and walks away. They proceed to smash all of his equipment to bits. You don't get done by Matt Groening like that by simply bundling software.
This is worse in my opinion. In the '90s, you could argue that precedent hadn't truly been set yet. Now that case is almost common knowledge in tech. They can't even pretend to have an excuse this time around. Until today, I thought "Microsoft is doing pretty good." Now I want nothing more than to see them sued/fined heavily for this.
EDIT: I can see now that I wrote carelessly. By "This is worse" I meant "This is more blatantly illegal." Not "This is more detrimental to the world." The '90s browser bundling was probably much more detrimental, but not unexpected behavior. But the recent behavior was very unexpected to me. I had to use Task Manager to kill it. I can't believe Microsoft would be so bold as to not even give me some small, hard-to-read "no thanks" button somewhere.
Would browser bundling actually get them in trouble in today's world? macOS, iPadOS, and iOS all come with Safari bundled (and alternatives prohibited in the latter cases). Android comes with Chrome. Some Android devices (Samsung) come with other browser bundled. Chrome OS is itself a browser.
A browser is a basic necessary OS component (heck, you need one just to download another one).
What is objectionable is the in-your-face nature of this update.
Aaaand it seems to have registered itself at some point as default pdf viewer, overriding my previous setting. Not sure when that happened but isn’t it just lovely.
Am I alone in absolutely loving Edge? It has finally unseated Chromium for me. It has all the benefits of the latest Chromium build without having to rely on sketchy binaries uploaded to some website, or giving Google total ownership of my web browsing. Sure Microsoft now fills that role, but they already own my OS anyways, so I'd rather reduce my "privacy surface area" as much as possible. Plus it has great built in privacy features like automatically deleting all browsing history after every session, and built in adblocking. I agree that the behavior outlined in this post is annoying, but the reality is that heavily managed automatic updating is the future for consumer grade software, and for good reason. If you're not a fan, just use Linux or an LTS Windows release.
Your conclusion strikes me as a bit defeatist. Managed systems might be 'better' for users now, but in the long term, they leave users with almost no agency, and that becomes a great opportunity for companies to abuse their position of power.
I also thing think that saying that something is annoying is dismissing what is actually a pretty dark pattern. What comes to mind is how modern day censorship works the internet. If you outright block someone's ability to visit a example.com, they will spot the censorship and try to find workarounds. If on the other hand, you simply introduce a 5% packet loss to example.com, people will blame the _website_ and not potential censorship.
What's to stop Microsoft for adding another 5 minutes of hassle to install chrome or firefox? You couldn't sue them for it, but it would be enough to destroy every other browser on the market.
It'd be one thing if word of mouth built up enough positive vibes for me to consider trying it for awhile. It's entirely another for my first experience with the latest Edge to be additional tech support requests from concerned and confused relatives in the middle of a goddamn pandemic. My mother has been a bit paranoid of Edge ever since scammers tried to get her to use it when Chrome blocked the malware she was being tricked into running - so Edge suddenly trying to take over her computer with no obvious way to close out of it made her understandably concerned! Fortunately we were able to muddle through it despite me not being able to see her screen over the phone, but this is another reminder that I should be strongly considering trying to switch her to a different platform, and poisons my perception of Edge to it's very core.
Let's presume for a moment that the new edge is like... Nirvana, it's the promise land, it's browsing utopia, let's assume that it really really is.
Do you earnestly believe it will stay that way if an actual sizable chunk of the market starts using it?
Or do you think Microsoft will do exactly what it did as described in this very article, which is use it's monopoly position to enforce its own interests to the detriment of society at large?
No you're not alone. I also recently tried Edgium and I think it's a really nice browser. However, I'm going to keep using Firefox cause FOSS and whether I like the new Edge or not is besides the point. I don't like it when Microsoft changes things in an update that clearly only benefit them.
I was initially hesitant to try it out. But now that I gave it a shot, I am liking it since it is very similar to Chrome but without being tied to Google. I am currently using it as a secondary browser, but if I was forced to switch I wouldn't mind. Extension support is still lacking though.
IMHO the worst part of Edge is the UI and relative lack of configurability. I suppose you'd like it if you were already used to Chrome/ium, but I abhor the dumbed-down featureless "flat" trend that's infected everything "modern" these days, along with the lack of things like user stylesheets and zone-based security settings (both of which IE has had for a long time, and which I have used to much benefit.) I'd be far more welcoming of a new rendering engine in the normal IE UI, along with all the configurability it had.
(Disclaimer: long-time IE user --- as well as Firefox and (pre-webkit) Opera.)
I have switched to Edge, not because it is necessarily a better browser, but because Google has become abusive.
Consider for example, this Chrome setting: Settings > Sync and Google Services > Allow Chrome sign-in. The description says "By turning this off, you can sign in to Google sites like Gmail without signing in to Chrome".
Turn this feature off and sign into Gmail. Chrome will sign you into the browser as well -- regardless of your setting -- so now the browser knows who you are.
This is pretty abusive. For this reason I have made Edge my default browser.
I wanted to like it, but its new tab page has a bunch of MSN cookies associated with it. To Edge's credit, it blocks some Bing cookies (giggle) and cookies from a 'scorecardresearch.com', but I'm still unimpressed.
Putting my web-developer hat on, I _am_ happy that I'm not going to have to worry about Trident-in-Edge ever again.
You're not alone. I like it. I _really_ like that Windows ships with a Chromium based browser by default, and I am running the canary build as my day to day, and it performs great on Windows 10 ARM (I have a Galaxy Book S, which is also awesome!).
Firefox is also fantastic! It's good to have some options besides Google Chrome these days!
I'm on W10 with the latest Firefox, Chrome and Edge.
Edge is the ONLY browser that doesnt consistently freeze my entire computer (and require a hard reset) when I watch Netflix. I have no idea why but its a common issue if you Google it.
I do not know about absolutely loving Edge, but I just setup a new work computer and am using edge exclusively. I cannot promise that this is forever, but it is working for me right now.
I wouldn't say I love it, but it's the best experience with multiple profiles. It's super simple to log into multiple MS accounts and have each one pinned to the taskbar.
There's also some integration with MS365 if you log in the an Azure AD domain.
i like it ok. it's better than ie. i don't like bing as much as google but overall i found it redundant to have both edge and chrome installed, and i just use edge. if i used gsuite or was a youtube uploader it might be different. i really should use firefox again though. i think edge's novelty is wearing off. and chromium in general.
Probably some software VP got a directive from higher up to see to it that their browser/software penetration stats are increasing, and opportunities for tie-ins with other products too, so this is what you get.
I would guess it is not a customer-product integrity driven priority.
Consider Linux. I recommend the "Debian" flavor, with a "Mate" desktop.
It's a no-brainer to install. It works exactly like all the other desktops. And it's faster, more secure, more stable and doesn't try to sell you stuff. It's also free.
If Windows 10's forced automatic updates were really being done just for security, Microsoft would offer the option to use LTSC. It's a painfully obvious solution—keep everyone secure, without changing their system out from under them. Microsoft is producing the code anyway.
I am pretty sure that you get the browser prompt to switch your default browser anytime you install a new browser (or any app the registers as a file or url handler). It has your current default on the top with the other choices below, I don't see what is so objectionable about it.
Now the full-screen splash page is obnoxious. There has to be a more tasteful way to inform the user of a large Edge update.
I migrated away from Chrome -to Firefox- over a year ago and haven't looked back. I don't want a re-skinned Chrome browser. I don't want Chrome. I don't want Edge.
Please Microsoft, listen to your users and stop trying to shove your products in our faces. If we want to try your products we will. If we don't want to use your products, then your own guerrilla-style tactics are only hurting your marketing efforts.
When people feel they have a choice, they're more likely to be satisfied with the outcome. When people feel they're cornered, the experience is less than satisfying and is almost guaranteed to backfire on the one doing the cornering.
> When people feel they have a choice, they're more likely to be satisfied with the outcome.
Is this really the case? or is it more so that people want the illusion of choice? Let's not forget that the other major OS in the world has you locked into using one browser engine regardless of whatever browser you install i.e. you have the illusion of choice but not really. Would people be okay if Microsoft forced all browsers to use Chromium on Windows?
Since users don't own Windows, only license it, MS has the ultimate say in what software those users will run. So it is what it is and we can all pray to Microsoft gods in hope that they will show some mercy.
They hit that low for me when they did the exact same thing with Windows 10 upgrades. When people's PC eventually shut down to restart mid-work, because they just minimized the upgrade pop-up instead of telling it "later" - which were the only two options to begin with. When this involuntary upgrade bricked some laptop models. When they snuck a popup for either OneDrive or Win10 into an important security update.
The whole point of an operating system is to work and get out of peoples way. Every needless distraction is a design flaw. Microsoft has, time and again, proven that they either don't understand or care about that and as such are not qualified to be OS vendors.
The actual article title of "With Edge, Microsoft’s forced Windows updates just sank to a new low" is a better explanation of what the article is about, imho. The word "throat" appears nowhere on the page.
I don't have this problem. Firefox still my browser. No Edge in sight to do the shenanigans described in article. I even ran manually a "check for updates" and came back saying I am up to date.
But I have a local account, and I've disabled all of Win10 crap using WPD. Maybe that's why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a dirty move, but it's an immensely lucrative move.
By switching users to Edge, they are switching them to Bing. The vast majority of users won't notice the switch since Edge and Bing both look a lot like Chrome and Google.
This will give MS billions of dollars of additional advertisement revenue.
I get that technically it is a new app and it is a browser... but edge has been bundled (outside of europe) since... ever. So has been the dark pattern of pushing for 'a better browser'. BTW, google does the same in their digital 'property' (they push for chrome - aggressively). Got no horse in the game but feels like '90s-hate-m$' nostalgia. How is this news?
In 2020, can you tell me of an OS that doesn't nag you for updates or do so 'during down times'? Ahhh yes... an 'eol' android device from obscure (or not so obscure) android vendor...
[+] [-] encoderer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hinkley|5 years ago|reply
There's a Simpson's episode where Homer has a business that Bill Gates wants to buy, and he refuses. So Bill tells his bodyguards to 'buy him out' and walks away. They proceed to smash all of his equipment to bits. You don't get done by Matt Groening like that by simply bundling software.
[+] [-] default-kramer|5 years ago|reply
EDIT: I can see now that I wrote carelessly. By "This is worse" I meant "This is more blatantly illegal." Not "This is more detrimental to the world." The '90s browser bundling was probably much more detrimental, but not unexpected behavior. But the recent behavior was very unexpected to me. I had to use Task Manager to kill it. I can't believe Microsoft would be so bold as to not even give me some small, hard-to-read "no thanks" button somewhere.
[+] [-] wvenable|5 years ago|reply
A browser is a basic necessary OS component (heck, you need one just to download another one).
What is objectionable is the in-your-face nature of this update.
[+] [-] dehrmann|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gruturo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prepend|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aphextron|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jsmith12673|5 years ago|reply
I also thing think that saying that something is annoying is dismissing what is actually a pretty dark pattern. What comes to mind is how modern day censorship works the internet. If you outright block someone's ability to visit a example.com, they will spot the censorship and try to find workarounds. If on the other hand, you simply introduce a 5% packet loss to example.com, people will blame the _website_ and not potential censorship.
What's to stop Microsoft for adding another 5 minutes of hassle to install chrome or firefox? You couldn't sue them for it, but it would be enough to destroy every other browser on the market.
[+] [-] MaulingMonkey|5 years ago|reply
I'm not even giving it a shot.
It'd be one thing if word of mouth built up enough positive vibes for me to consider trying it for awhile. It's entirely another for my first experience with the latest Edge to be additional tech support requests from concerned and confused relatives in the middle of a goddamn pandemic. My mother has been a bit paranoid of Edge ever since scammers tried to get her to use it when Chrome blocked the malware she was being tricked into running - so Edge suddenly trying to take over her computer with no obvious way to close out of it made her understandably concerned! Fortunately we were able to muddle through it despite me not being able to see her screen over the phone, but this is another reminder that I should be strongly considering trying to switch her to a different platform, and poisons my perception of Edge to it's very core.
[+] [-] gramakri|5 years ago|reply
Isn't that besides the point that you love Edge ? I think the problem here is that they installed it without user consent.
[+] [-] joe_the_user|5 years ago|reply
You are now that Microsoft has done this.
Seriously, forcing user preferences is terrible and completely unrelated to the virtues of Edge.
[+] [-] oehpr|5 years ago|reply
Do you earnestly believe it will stay that way if an actual sizable chunk of the market starts using it?
Or do you think Microsoft will do exactly what it did as described in this very article, which is use it's monopoly position to enforce its own interests to the detriment of society at large?
[+] [-] kitotik|5 years ago|reply
Possibly the best fit I’ve ever encountered for the adage “out of the frying pan into the fire”.
[+] [-] thekyle|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] humanlion87|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] userbinator|5 years ago|reply
(Disclaimer: long-time IE user --- as well as Firefox and (pre-webkit) Opera.)
[+] [-] solarkraft|5 years ago|reply
That's not even necessarily a bad thing (given there are ways around it) ... But that isn't what Microsoft did here.
[+] [-] flowerlad|5 years ago|reply
Consider for example, this Chrome setting: Settings > Sync and Google Services > Allow Chrome sign-in. The description says "By turning this off, you can sign in to Google sites like Gmail without signing in to Chrome".
Turn this feature off and sign into Gmail. Chrome will sign you into the browser as well -- regardless of your setting -- so now the browser knows who you are.
This is pretty abusive. For this reason I have made Edge my default browser.
[+] [-] adiabatty|5 years ago|reply
Putting my web-developer hat on, I _am_ happy that I'm not going to have to worry about Trident-in-Edge ever again.
[+] [-] ryan-allen|5 years ago|reply
Firefox is also fantastic! It's good to have some options besides Google Chrome these days!
[+] [-] notoriousjpg|5 years ago|reply
Edge is the ONLY browser that doesnt consistently freeze my entire computer (and require a hard reset) when I watch Netflix. I have no idea why but its a common issue if you Google it.
For that alone I am glad Edge exists.
[+] [-] mmcgaha|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] donmcronald|5 years ago|reply
There's also some integration with MS365 if you log in the an Azure AD domain.
[+] [-] Pmop|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] millennialist|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stOneskull|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] modmans2nd|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjmlp|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blackrock|5 years ago|reply
Select any text, and speak it. Jump anywhere in the page. Works on both, regular web pages, and PDFs too.
It works even better than what’s on the iPad Safari. And Chrome doesn’t have any working feature like this.
[+] [-] supernova87a|5 years ago|reply
I would guess it is not a customer-product integrity driven priority.
[+] [-] cadence-|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swayvil|5 years ago|reply
It's a no-brainer to install. It works exactly like all the other desktops. And it's faster, more secure, more stable and doesn't try to sell you stuff. It's also free.
[+] [-] Wowfunhappy|5 years ago|reply
It's not about security.
[+] [-] megaman821|5 years ago|reply
Now the full-screen splash page is obnoxious. There has to be a more tasteful way to inform the user of a large Edge update.
[+] [-] imchillyb|5 years ago|reply
I migrated away from Chrome -to Firefox- over a year ago and haven't looked back. I don't want a re-skinned Chrome browser. I don't want Chrome. I don't want Edge.
Please Microsoft, listen to your users and stop trying to shove your products in our faces. If we want to try your products we will. If we don't want to use your products, then your own guerrilla-style tactics are only hurting your marketing efforts.
When people feel they have a choice, they're more likely to be satisfied with the outcome. When people feel they're cornered, the experience is less than satisfying and is almost guaranteed to backfire on the one doing the cornering.
I hope you're listening Microsoft...
[+] [-] erklik|5 years ago|reply
Is this really the case? or is it more so that people want the illusion of choice? Let's not forget that the other major OS in the world has you locked into using one browser engine regardless of whatever browser you install i.e. you have the illusion of choice but not really. Would people be okay if Microsoft forced all browsers to use Chromium on Windows?
[+] [-] type0|5 years ago|reply
️️
[+] [-] skinkestek|5 years ago|reply
This isn't guerilla style. This is army style, carpet bombing.
[+] [-] MildlySerious|5 years ago|reply
The whole point of an operating system is to work and get out of peoples way. Every needless distraction is a design flaw. Microsoft has, time and again, proven that they either don't understand or care about that and as such are not qualified to be OS vendors.
[+] [-] Godel_unicode|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ShaneMcGowan|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unnouinceput|5 years ago|reply
But I have a local account, and I've disabled all of Win10 crap using WPD. Maybe that's why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[+] [-] Jyaif|5 years ago|reply
By switching users to Edge, they are switching them to Bing. The vast majority of users won't notice the switch since Edge and Bing both look a lot like Chrome and Google.
This will give MS billions of dollars of additional advertisement revenue.
[+] [-] shmerl|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 627467|5 years ago|reply
In 2020, can you tell me of an OS that doesn't nag you for updates or do so 'during down times'? Ahhh yes... an 'eol' android device from obscure (or not so obscure) android vendor...
[+] [-] tinus_hn|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throw7|5 years ago|reply
I'm imagining good ole bill smiling away, "that's a good boy satya."
[+] [-] throwawaysea|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xadz|5 years ago|reply