Lots of folks here are talking about the latency and throughput, but nobody is amazed at what the robots are doing. Plugging in cables and putting down tape is fiddly and hard. I'm super impressed that they elected to automate those things based on cost merit. Massive kudos to the manufacturing engineers who managed to pull that off.
I had invested in a semiconductor factory early last decade, and it had started making bitcoin miners, it had reminding me of Zion from the Matrix because it seemed like the first time that a machine could make another machine which could immediately start earning a negotiable asset and then transacting for resources.
Early lights out production. The problem became obvious a little later, for NeXT, which was that these things only make sense at very high scale for products that change infrequently.
I'm surprised they didn't design out stuff like tape. Although perhaps they did and the article actually means handling things like ribbon cables, which is super impressive, as humans can barely handle those.
There is a interview of Elon Musk with MKBHD. He was precisely referring to this as being one of the issues when they were trying to automate the pipeline. The machines just couldn't plug a loose tube in its place. Maybe they should have consulted with Sony.
Exactly. Things built for vertical assembly, like the Sony Walkman and the Apple Macintosh IIci, are easy to assemble automatically. All the assembly moves are straight down.
This has those annoying cable connectors that have to be slid in edgewise. Yet they got that to work.
I'm amazed that Sony let out detailed pictures of the cable connecting operation. Looks like they use both a camera and a force feedback wrist.
> I'm super impressed that they elected to automate those things based on cost merit.
Seven years production run (or more), that should explain a lot. Even if hardware revisions changed significantly in that time (I wouldn't know) that's still a completely different calculation than something that changes annually, or even twice a year, as Sony's own Xperia phones used to.
Could you elaborate the cost merit thing? It was my main question and I couldn't find anything on it. How much do they save using robots instead of people to attach some cables? Is the benefit in failure ratio or do they actually expect to save some money by designing and building robots?
This is only tangentially related, but the dictionary isn't helping me distinguish between these two concepts. In networking what is the difference between bandwidth and throughput, if there is a difference?
This is a fantastic video, extremely well done in my opinion. I remember fanatically watching "How It's Made", in that show they focused on more run of the mill assembly lines for generic plastic things and usually there was a ton of labor involved. The video linked here was really the first time I saw this level of automation and my jaw nearly hit the floor, the technology industry has created some incredible feats of engineering.
This looks so amazing and I wasn't aware that Playstations are still manufactured in Sony's home country itself. I guess automation helps in keeping the manufacturing cost low.
Now I am intrigued about what high selling electronic devices are manufactured in their home country itself and not by the ODMs/CMs in countries with cheap labour like China.
If anyone is interested in factory automation I'm working on a site to catalog different processes. A good design can often be recycled into a similar machine.
> Just a few humans were present to deal with a handful of tasks -- two to feed bare motherboards to the line, and two to package the finished consoles.
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but, especially the first task, seems rather trivial compared to what they achieved with their robots? Even the second one, If I remember correctly Amazon does/did this manually because every single package is different and no robot flexible enough, but I assume in Sonys case packages are all exactly the same. Doesn't sound a whole lot harder than plugging in the cables.
So why wouldn't they automatize those steps as well?
I wonder if this speaker to its nature of being a Japanese article but the tone is largely awe and pride of the accomplishment lacking the usual fear of automation and jobs lost I see in other such articles.
>“If you keep watching them long enough, they will start to look like humans,” said one engineer. The look in his eye is gentle like a father watching over his children. Unlike large robots that lift heavy items, the delicate movements of compact robots resemble those of human arms and have surprising warmth.
"The 31.4-meter line, completed in 2018, has the ability to churn out a new console every 30 seconds."
That seems.... slow? I mean, I have no idea what I expected, but 2 a minute, is that really fast for this type of manufacturing? How does that compare to Xbox or maybe iPhone output? I'm sure 2 a minute is really impressive, but I started reading that thinking something like hundreds or thousands an hour, I guess I was naive.
Electronics manufacturing has been moving to more and more automation for years. Humans don't place components on PCBs anymore (well, most components). it's done by machines that look more like a gatling gun than human arm. It's quite stunning how small the components are these days.
I am happy that China reached the point where their average wage is high enough that we can finally resume the manufacturing automation effort that kinda stalled since the 90.
Powerful example of operational innovation, and that there is so much untapped opportunity we are not leveraging in so many areas.
A company like Apple may not have the wherewithal or impetus to do something like this. When they need manufacturing, they are resigned to the traditional approach: China. Since labour is cheap there, and they just may not be thinking in these terms and may not have the wherewithal either ... the cost-effective solution invariable involves high labour intensity.
It may very well take factories like this to inspire other organisations to have the necessary 'Eureka!' moment to grasp that they too, might be better off 'fully automated' as well.
Note the eye-watering scale of the business however, quoted at nearly $100 Billion in sales, which is rather a lot of money indicating that it may take a product with a very long life cycle wherein there are considerable profits for this to be feasible.
Looking at this, one has to wonder why Western nations are not more keen to duplicate.
God I love my PS4 - it has to be the peak of this class of machine. I can't imagine how it could be improved upon without going beyond the "box under the telly format". Incredible piece of machinery. I can't imagine the PS5 will be much more than an upgrade.
In my opinion the second best console is the PS2. I love Nintendo but they're more like toys than hard core gaming and entertainment machines. PS2 up until PS4 was pretty much the pinnacle, but I think the way PS4 improved upon it is the development platform, and the online experience (which even so does require some improvement). I still play games on the PS2 from time to time and they still feel viable as offline single-player experiences and I could imagine development for the PS4 could continue for 20 years or so and still be producing great and relevant games.
Where to from here? VR is one obvious route but may I suggest a HN-friendly alternative? Hows about selling a more open system that allows end-users to tinker and contribute themselves? I think in order for this to be viable in terms of protecting the profitability and stability of the ecosystem there are some business and technical challenges but I would love to see them take this direction. They've dabbled before with the Yaroze system and Playstation Linux … both had their business operational issues but hardly insurmountable?
EDIT - can't respond below any more so I just have "one more thing" to say:
> PS4 is famous for being the cheapest sony home console relatively speaking
and what exactly is the problem with that? This is a feature not a bug. The PS3 was a novel system with exotic hardware but it suffered from some very serious flaws. It's reliance on proprietary technologies meant it was harder for developers to work with. It never took off as a result and is little more than a footnote in the lineage's history. A learning experience if you will.
Surely an extension of making something easier for professional developers to get to grips with is making something that hobby developers (and other classes of creative) can get to grips with?
I've always wondered if you could automate a sort of standard assembly system with a certain amount of adjustments within some parameters (device dimensions, how things are connected)... and pump out any number of different electronics all on the same assembly line / factory using the same robots?
Granted that probably already is a thing, or isn't for good reason.
As you might imagine, this is already the case in places like Shenzhen - there's off the shelf “building blocks” for machines - not necessarily to any written standard, though. In this[1] Strange Parts video he mentions it. If you watch some of his other videos you'll start to notice that many of the machines actually look similar - I highly recommend watching them, they're great.
If you give up maximum throughput for flexibility, it's indeed possible to do just that, and AFAIK that's how many factories are operated. There's also a mix and match where you have "subunits" that operate specific subsection of assembly line in specialized manner and provide general resources to multiple further areas (if you play Factorio, such subunits can be directly compared with Assemblers or Assemblers blocks in bigger production lines). An example of such a block cane be manufacture of pipes or PCBs.
So why do most of the PS4s I find on ebay all say "Made in China"? Are the parts made in China and then assembled in Japan at the Kisarazu plant? Or are they only making PS4 units in Japan for the domestic Japanese market...and making the rest of the world's units in China?
Taking out the human element. China knows it's coming and it's a big reason they're "investing" in poor countries. They won't have the upper hand on cheap labor soon.
I'm so fascinated by lights out "autofac" manufacturing. Instead of amazon warehouses along I-90 let's just have "autofac" clusters that can make most anything.
[+] [-] zbrozek|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vmception|5 years ago|reply
Very surreal to think about.
[+] [-] foobiekr|5 years ago|reply
Early lights out production. The problem became obvious a little later, for NeXT, which was that these things only make sense at very high scale for products that change infrequently.
[+] [-] jccooper|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foxfired|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|5 years ago|reply
I'm amazed that Sony let out detailed pictures of the cable connecting operation. Looks like they use both a camera and a force feedback wrist.
[+] [-] falcolas|5 years ago|reply
Really? That's fascinating to me, given how accurate pick'n'place robots are. I would have thought they required similar capabilities.
[+] [-] usrusr|5 years ago|reply
Seven years production run (or more), that should explain a lot. Even if hardware revisions changed significantly in that time (I wouldn't know) that's still a completely different calculation than something that changes annually, or even twice a year, as Sony's own Xperia phones used to.
[+] [-] CobrastanJorji|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Konohamaru|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beenBoutIT|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agumonkey|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raj_khare|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andalusian_ipa|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hobofan|5 years ago|reply
[0]: https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/11/9890914/valves-steam-con...
[+] [-] bluejellybean|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bserge|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _bxg1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ekianjo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Iv|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] huseyinkeles|5 years ago|reply
Thanks for posting this! Very entertaining to watch indeed :)
[+] [-] outworlder|5 years ago|reply
I got some Satisfactory vibes out of it.
[+] [-] wnevets|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] latch|5 years ago|reply
https://vdata.nikkei.com/en/newsgraphics/sony-playstation/
(The content is different, though both articles cover the same topic. A bit weird)
[+] [-] whywhywhywhy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HenryKissinger|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nullc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baybal2|5 years ago|reply
A "lights out" factory needs a really expensive, complex widget to make, but one which doesn't vary, or change over time much.
Game consoles are exactly like: long product life times, and can be engineered specifically with automated lines in mind, without compromises.
Robotic factories are by no means a final solution for manufacturing.
[+] [-] arcticfox|5 years ago|reply
Robotic factories are by no means a final solution for manufacturing...Yet
[+] [-] actuator|5 years ago|reply
Now I am intrigued about what high selling electronic devices are manufactured in their home country itself and not by the ODMs/CMs in countries with cheap labour like China.
[+] [-] enginoor|5 years ago|reply
https://automate.engineer/
I'm mostly building it for myself but I thought other people may enjoy.
[+] [-] smoe|5 years ago|reply
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but, especially the first task, seems rather trivial compared to what they achieved with their robots? Even the second one, If I remember correctly Amazon does/did this manually because every single package is different and no robot flexible enough, but I assume in Sonys case packages are all exactly the same. Doesn't sound a whole lot harder than plugging in the cables.
So why wouldn't they automatize those steps as well?
[+] [-] impalallama|5 years ago|reply
>“If you keep watching them long enough, they will start to look like humans,” said one engineer. The look in his eye is gentle like a father watching over his children. Unlike large robots that lift heavy items, the delicate movements of compact robots resemble those of human arms and have surprising warmth.
[+] [-] blakesterz|5 years ago|reply
That seems.... slow? I mean, I have no idea what I expected, but 2 a minute, is that really fast for this type of manufacturing? How does that compare to Xbox or maybe iPhone output? I'm sure 2 a minute is really impressive, but I started reading that thinking something like hundreds or thousands an hour, I guess I was naive.
[+] [-] velox_io|5 years ago|reply
Gamers Nexus: How Motherboards Are Made (2019) | Taiwan Automated Factory Tour, ft. Gigabyte https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnAFTMaS5R0
[+] [-] Iv|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chinathrow|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jariel|5 years ago|reply
A company like Apple may not have the wherewithal or impetus to do something like this. When they need manufacturing, they are resigned to the traditional approach: China. Since labour is cheap there, and they just may not be thinking in these terms and may not have the wherewithal either ... the cost-effective solution invariable involves high labour intensity.
It may very well take factories like this to inspire other organisations to have the necessary 'Eureka!' moment to grasp that they too, might be better off 'fully automated' as well.
Note the eye-watering scale of the business however, quoted at nearly $100 Billion in sales, which is rather a lot of money indicating that it may take a product with a very long life cycle wherein there are considerable profits for this to be feasible.
Looking at this, one has to wonder why Western nations are not more keen to duplicate.
[+] [-] rusk|5 years ago|reply
In my opinion the second best console is the PS2. I love Nintendo but they're more like toys than hard core gaming and entertainment machines. PS2 up until PS4 was pretty much the pinnacle, but I think the way PS4 improved upon it is the development platform, and the online experience (which even so does require some improvement). I still play games on the PS2 from time to time and they still feel viable as offline single-player experiences and I could imagine development for the PS4 could continue for 20 years or so and still be producing great and relevant games.
Where to from here? VR is one obvious route but may I suggest a HN-friendly alternative? Hows about selling a more open system that allows end-users to tinker and contribute themselves? I think in order for this to be viable in terms of protecting the profitability and stability of the ecosystem there are some business and technical challenges but I would love to see them take this direction. They've dabbled before with the Yaroze system and Playstation Linux … both had their business operational issues but hardly insurmountable?
EDIT - can't respond below any more so I just have "one more thing" to say:
> PS4 is famous for being the cheapest sony home console relatively speaking
and what exactly is the problem with that? This is a feature not a bug. The PS3 was a novel system with exotic hardware but it suffered from some very serious flaws. It's reliance on proprietary technologies meant it was harder for developers to work with. It never took off as a result and is little more than a footnote in the lineage's history. A learning experience if you will.
Surely an extension of making something easier for professional developers to get to grips with is making something that hobby developers (and other classes of creative) can get to grips with?
[+] [-] duxup|5 years ago|reply
Granted that probably already is a thing, or isn't for good reason.
[+] [-] mkroman|5 years ago|reply
[1]: https://youtu.be/PZBQzLfCKpw?t=1019
[+] [-] p_l|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bowmessage|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] everseason|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbmuser|5 years ago|reply
Usually, the first batches of a Sony product are made in Japan or the ones sold domestically.
If you buy an early PlayStation 1, 2, 3 or 4 in Japan, they're usually all Made in Japan.
[+] [-] tanilama|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] partingshots|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LockAndLol|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mips_avatar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hinkley|5 years ago|reply