It is absolutely foolish for any country other than China to allow TikTok within their borders.
You might fairly ask whether or not it is equally foolish for non-US countries to use US services. I think that is also a reasonable question, and deserves reflection.
> You might fairly ask whether or not it is equally foolish for non-US countries to use US services. I think that is also a reasonable question, and deserves reflection.
It's a fair sentiment (and held by others as well on this thread), but IMHO there's no equivalence. In democracies, violence against their own people (or others) will invite opposition from their citizens - while in China people won't even know what's going on.
The consequences are stark - just last week 7 million people lost the liberties they enjoyed. What's a comparable loss due to US snooping?
It's not equivalent, but I am certainly wary of having my data handled by US companies that aren't big enough to be scared of GDPR.
My phone number and email address spread to many more American marketing lists than European ones, even though I rarely visit. Many of my Facebook ads result from my yearly visit to American cities. I just can't trust American businesses to use my data for the intended purpose only.
"Foolish" may be a bit too far but yes privacy is a concern and can be imposed to operate within the borders of a country. I dont think banning an app is a solution , tomorrow another app may comeup would you ban that too? It is easier for countries to just pass laws and ask companies to comply with them instead of out right banning them. Also banning is so anti capital. And market will punish you for being anti capital.
All this will do is validate that banning each other's social media apps is a legitimate thing to do, all you need is sufficient justification.
The usual reason for tit-for-tat trade restrictions is to punish the original restrictions and try to coerce the other side back to a free trade position. That can't happen in this case, the CCP will never allow foreign social media in China, so it would end up with a permanent mutual ban.
Either we believe that freedom of communication is a paramount principle that should be protected, or we don't and we think it's ok to interfere with it for 'national interest' reasons. Our national interest reasons might differ from theirs, but we'd still be validating that banning social media is an acceptable step to take depending on the circumstances. I realise this poses a problem because letting Chinese social media into our markets creates risks but if they operate in our markets they have to follow our laws and our standards. Playing the game their way by their rules is a losing strategy. We need to get a lot more creative on this.
This is such cancer. I didn't expect that trade wars and centralized app stores would lead to this, but here we are.
Think back to 1999-- could you imagine if China had made Napster, the USA would block your access to download and use it? We would all just laugh at how easy it would be to get around it
This may or may not have to do with trade war, but the banning TikTok makes sense -- it's just quid pro quo. The Chinese government banned FB, Google, Twitter, Netflix, after all.
Many countries have banned some or more services (especially uber and the like received many bans). But even if others didn't, it seems like a very weak argument to me.
This is more of the protectionism/mercantilism/nationalism stuff. Sure, there's a B-story for it but it's all seated in revanchist nationalism and a tropish "suspicious foreigners" framing.
If someone made a villainous fu manchu character people would rightly protest it as intolerable. Yet when we actually instrument official government policy based on the same sentiments that the character is based on nobody even reaches for the pearls to clutch.
Once again, fiction and symbols are somehow more important to the political imagination than material reality.
This sounds like a protectionist move from the United States, than anything else.
TikTok appears to be the first China technology media company, that can actually make a dent in the universe.
It wasn’t WeChat from Tencent. Nor anything from Alibaba; I don’t think they’re in the media space. Nor search from Baidu. Nor Sina Weibo for tweets.
I can’t think of any other Chinese media company, that can actually make an impact, on the world, just yet.
Perhaps the USA government is trying to kill this fledgling company, while it’s still small. It still hasn’t reached the prevalence of Facebook or YouTube or Twitter yet.
The funny thing is, for a while, TikTok was trying to discourage political content. Just stick to fun dance moves. They tried to tell their users to keep that vile political stuff to Twitter and Facebook; and then, they got criticized for censorship. LOL.
This would be a good moment for the EU to reassess it's dependency on American apps like Whatsapp.
If even the US starts openly blocking apps because they think it would be better for a local competitor to fill this part of the market it should be a wakeup call for the EU.
Tencent owns 40% of Epic Games ... shall we ban Fortnite as well then and make all the kids play Minecraft since it is wholly owned by a US company ???.
If you view digital contents as industrial goods, the internet today which allows apps, services to flow around the world without much burden (e.g. tariff, import control) is already a miracle. It's no surprise of countries to start building "customs" on the internet and that may become a trend considering the deglobalization happening these years.
I like Chinese tiktok "for you" recommendation than YouTube's recommended. Tiktoks reco is like yeah I will watch that, most of the time I am like thanks. Keep recommending like this. Youtube is like, algorithm thinks it has figured me but it's sort of showing me the same old videos like it's new. I will throw my data to China.
So it is not ok for a foreign app the spy on its user but it's perfectly ok for Google and co to do so? Anyone remember what Uber did with their app and tracking users? What about the king of tracking, facebook?
There’s a quite a large difference between Google spying and China spying. When Google “spies”, users get more relevant ads. When China spies, people get into “Vocational Education and Training Centers” and other bad things happen.
Chinese spying is like 10000 times worse in practice.
But in theory, when dealing in absolutes, there is no difference, both are spies.
US is not great, but i would want the US to be the police of the world and not china. I am not a US citizen. The reason is simple USA is built on democracy and individual freedom.
[+] [-] AbrahamParangi|5 years ago|reply
You might fairly ask whether or not it is equally foolish for non-US countries to use US services. I think that is also a reasonable question, and deserves reflection.
[+] [-] jeswin|5 years ago|reply
It's a fair sentiment (and held by others as well on this thread), but IMHO there's no equivalence. In democracies, violence against their own people (or others) will invite opposition from their citizens - while in China people won't even know what's going on.
The consequences are stark - just last week 7 million people lost the liberties they enjoyed. What's a comparable loss due to US snooping?
[+] [-] Deganta|5 years ago|reply
Sure, America does a lot of shady stuff, but the situation in China is just way worse in pretty much every way imaginable.
[+] [-] lightgreen|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicbou|5 years ago|reply
My phone number and email address spread to many more American marketing lists than European ones, even though I rarely visit. Many of my Facebook ads result from my yearly visit to American cities. I just can't trust American businesses to use my data for the intended purpose only.
[+] [-] pankajdoharey|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wiml|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codezero|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] max_hammer|5 years ago|reply
Even with VPN people were not able to bypass ban.
[+] [-] raspyberr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] simonh|5 years ago|reply
The usual reason for tit-for-tat trade restrictions is to punish the original restrictions and try to coerce the other side back to a free trade position. That can't happen in this case, the CCP will never allow foreign social media in China, so it would end up with a permanent mutual ban.
Either we believe that freedom of communication is a paramount principle that should be protected, or we don't and we think it's ok to interfere with it for 'national interest' reasons. Our national interest reasons might differ from theirs, but we'd still be validating that banning social media is an acceptable step to take depending on the circumstances. I realise this poses a problem because letting Chinese social media into our markets creates risks but if they operate in our markets they have to follow our laws and our standards. Playing the game their way by their rules is a losing strategy. We need to get a lot more creative on this.
[+] [-] sushshshsh|5 years ago|reply
Think back to 1999-- could you imagine if China had made Napster, the USA would block your access to download and use it? We would all just laugh at how easy it would be to get around it
[+] [-] hintymad|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Balgair|5 years ago|reply
With TikTok I get bad choreography.
I don't see a lot of people trying to get around firewalls for that.
[+] [-] yann_bleu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ketzu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kristopolous|5 years ago|reply
If someone made a villainous fu manchu character people would rightly protest it as intolerable. Yet when we actually instrument official government policy based on the same sentiments that the character is based on nobody even reaches for the pearls to clutch.
Once again, fiction and symbols are somehow more important to the political imagination than material reality.
[+] [-] haecceity|5 years ago|reply
Asian stereotypes in media is pretty well tolerated.
[+] [-] Craighead|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] blackrock|5 years ago|reply
TikTok appears to be the first China technology media company, that can actually make a dent in the universe.
It wasn’t WeChat from Tencent. Nor anything from Alibaba; I don’t think they’re in the media space. Nor search from Baidu. Nor Sina Weibo for tweets.
I can’t think of any other Chinese media company, that can actually make an impact, on the world, just yet.
Perhaps the USA government is trying to kill this fledgling company, while it’s still small. It still hasn’t reached the prevalence of Facebook or YouTube or Twitter yet.
The funny thing is, for a while, TikTok was trying to discourage political content. Just stick to fun dance moves. They tried to tell their users to keep that vile political stuff to Twitter and Facebook; and then, they got criticized for censorship. LOL.
[+] [-] socrates1998|5 years ago|reply
And given how bad TikTok is with user data (mostly minors too), I don't see how banning it would be a bad thing.
There will be American or western clones within days that replace it.
[+] [-] apexalpha|5 years ago|reply
If even the US starts openly blocking apps because they think it would be better for a local competitor to fill this part of the market it should be a wakeup call for the EU.
[+] [-] tibbydudeza|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] john4534243|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chenzhekl|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tester34|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidbonachera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JohnTClark|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chriselles|5 years ago|reply
It certainly seems like the world is bifurcating between FAANG and BATH for that reason.
[+] [-] tanilama|5 years ago|reply
Delisting from AppStore? Or ask ISP to ban tiktok domains? Or both?
[+] [-] jeswin|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blackrock|5 years ago|reply
Is TikTok doing revenue sharing with the content creator?
If so, then this ban is just going to smack these American end users in the face.
[+] [-] bobbydreamer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] echaozh|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sschueller|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lightgreen|5 years ago|reply
Chinese spying is like 10000 times worse in practice.
But in theory, when dealing in absolutes, there is no difference, both are spies.
[+] [-] john4534243|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hprotagonist|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mike503|5 years ago|reply