[dannypgh]

I don't view any of this through the lens of changing our language for language sake. I view it through the lens of trying to rectify the injustices of slavery and legalized discrimination, and the inequality that permeates our society as a result.

So if we gain momentum here, I see the next step as seeking other forms of reparations, not going after other words.

If there are others who are suffering who want to advocate for ways to improve our language to reduce the unintended harm it has, they're of course welcome to.

Also c'mon this slippery slope argument sounds like this to me: "Where does it stop? Will people object to every word and I'll be forced to express myself just through grunts? What if they then come for my grunts? Therefore I should continue to call things whatever I want because slippery slope."

Where does it stop? It stops when people stop pushing.

[concordDance]

US slavery ended more than a century ago. US "black" culture just got broken some time in the last 70 years, maybe due to the "war on drugs".

If you want to help american black people prosper you're looking too far back in the past.

> So if we gain momentum here, I see the next step as seeking other forms of reparations, not going after other words.

Why reparations based on race? Why not just help the poor and downtrodden regardless of race?

You're promoting race-conciousness. You know where that ends? White conciousness and white nationalism. If you (not "you" as in dannyphg) lump people together as a group and attacks them and says they need to give you stuff, those people will start banding together and fighting back. I cannot emphasize enough how much race wars fucking suck. Even the ones just fought with votes and preferential treatment for your own tribe suck.

[zug_zug]

> What if they then come for my grunts?

Definitely not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is every time we take a safe word and make it a "bad" word we sweep up a lot of people along the way, most of whom in my experience aren't really bad people, they're usually just stubborn, caught unawares, a standup comedian, or taken out of context.

Maybe these language changes should have a 5-year deployment window so everybody gets notice.

I think my other question isn't just where it stops, but when it stops. Is it ever going to be enough words banned and then we're done forever? Because if the answer is "no" then I'm probably not able to side with this change-the-language movement as a good use of our limited political energy.

[eesmith]

Why do you think "master/slave" was "a safe word" in the first place?

The current narrative is that tech industry inherited the dominant white supremacist culture. (To be specific, "master/slave" entered as a tech term in the 1950s there was wide support by whites for the existing laws enforcing white supremacy)

As such, the term was "safe" because those who used it - white people in tech - were also nearly always those people who gain from the underlying dynamics of white supremacy.

Another narrative comes from "Broken Metaphor: The Master-Slave Analogy in Technical Literature" by Ron Eglash" available from https://sci-hub.st/10.1353/tech.2007.0066 :

> ... being unconscious of social mores was a good sign for a future physicist, because physics transcends culture. Perhaps this kind of emphasis on a technical identity is at work here, too, and the master-slave metaphor is attractive to engineers because its free use “proves” that they inhabit a nonsocial or culture-free realm, which is a matter of professional pride

There are other certainly other narratives, which is why I'm asking why you think it was a safe word, even when others do not, and have not for years.

Note that Eglash's paper quotes a Black researcher who had problems with that term back in 1992.

To re-ask your earlier question, whose opinions count on the issue of why a term is "safe"?

You mentioned "a 5-year deployment window so everybody gets notice".

The "notifications" started well more than 5 years ago. Even here on HN, Django changed 6 years ago, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7801646 .

Drupal changed its terminology 12 years ago, which lead to discussion 6.5 years ago here at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6826918 .

The earliest discussion on the topic was 11 years ago, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=466188 .

When would you consider that proper notice has been sent?

Tell me, do you still use the term Negro? Or did you side with the change-the-language movement on that one? Because the logic you use sounds identical to the logic used to resist that change.

Why use your limited political energy to, e.g., construct hypotheticals against language change when language always changes?