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Diageo to launch Johnnie Walker whisky in paper bottles

54 points| hhs | 5 years ago |reuters.com

111 comments

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[+] raesene9|5 years ago|reply
I've never seen whisky (Johnnie Walker or others) in a plastic bottle...

If the Whisky industry wants to cut down on waste, there's a really easy way to do it. Stop putting whisky into fancy cardboard/metal boxes (or at least offer a version of all your lines without the box).

Other spirits do just fine without the fancy box, it's just pure waste (apart from perhaps whisky bought for gifts)

[+] Arainach|5 years ago|reply
Direct sunlight quickly (in a matter of a few weeks) affects both the color and taste of whisky. The outer packaging serves a functional role.
[+] smachiz|5 years ago|reply
I would bet it's their mini-bottles and pints - those are what are commonly plastic rather than glass.
[+] yellowapple|5 years ago|reply
> I've never seen whisky (Johnnie Walker or others) in a plastic bottle...

It's pretty common for smaller bottles of inexpensive whiskey, at least here in the US; I see (and buy) the likes of Jack Daniels and Jim Beam in plastic bottles all the time (e.g. for parties, since I know we'll have no trouble going through the whole bottle in a night).

[+] donarb|5 years ago|reply
> I've never seen whisky (Johnnie Walker or others) in a plastic bottle...

Lots of airline liquor bottles are plastic.

[+] jml7c5|5 years ago|reply
Let's put on the skeptic cap, because "environmentally friendly" packaging is rife with misleading statements. (For an example, the bottled water company "Just Water" notes their plant-based, organic, environmentally friendly packaging can be recycled, but they specifically avoid mentioning it cannot be composted. They even fooled their own PR team.[1])

Pulpex site 'about' page: "NOT Pulp wrapped around plastic"

Pulpex site 'about' page: "NOT Pulp-infused into PET"

Pilot Lite press release: "...first ever 100% PET free paper-based spirits bottle, made entirely from sustainably sourced wood."

Diageo press release: "...100% plastic free and expected to be fully recyclable. The bottle is made from sustainably sourced pulp to meet food-safe standards and will be fully recyclable in standard waste streams."

So it's not biodegradable or compostable, but it is recyclable. It doesn't use "plastic", but some component of it presumably does not degrade. So for any chemists: what wood derivative isn't technically a plastic, but is waterproof and does not decompose?

----------------

[1]: https://twitter.com/JUST/status/1068686120995643392

[+] beenBoutIT|5 years ago|reply
More than waterproof, to securely contain the ethanol in the whiskey it needs to be solvent proof. Sounds like a fluoropolymer coating that isn't technically considered plastic, although it could be glass or aluminum.
[+] eel|5 years ago|reply
I'm not a chemist, but the material is likely based on cellulose which is commonly derived from wood pulp. Plastics and fibers made from cellulose are petroleum free. The word "plastic" is pretty loosely defined, so they may be using "100% plastic free" to refer to anything that is free of petroleum. If they are using "plastic" more strictly, then I would guess they are using something along the line of cellulose nanofibrils.
[+] catalogia|5 years ago|reply
I believe when a 'bottle' is made out of paper, it's properly called a 'carton'. e.g. a 'carton of milk'
[+] twic|5 years ago|reply
I remember buying cartons of red wine in Italy in the mid '90s for a few hundred lire a go. It was diabolically bad. Great days!
[+] simlevesque|5 years ago|reply
Carton is a french word and it means cardboard or box. I've never heard is used for something that has a round shape.
[+] forgotmypw17|5 years ago|reply
Milk "cartons" have a lot of plastic in them, and are neither biodegradeable, nor recyclable.
[+] black_puppydog|5 years ago|reply
Wait... they're using plastic bottles right now?! The bottles I know are glass + metal top. perfect for recycling. Am I missing something?

Edit: lol okay I'm not the only one. So is it a marketing ploy then?

[+] arrosenberg|5 years ago|reply
It definitely seems like a marketing ploy, but I'd also have to wonder if the paper container is light enough compared to the glass/metal container to make a big difference in distribution costs.
[+] Frost1x|5 years ago|reply
Aside from very large containers of cheaper of "mid tier" quality alcohols and samplers, I've never seen a plastic bottle.

For scotch, I've never seen anything but glass and don't believe I'd buy anything but glass.

Is there an advantage to paper recycling over glass? I know I've went through the whole "recycle your own paper" project when I was a kid but nothing to the level an industrial plant would likely do. I'm assuming energy requirements may be the same? Paper seems like it might be more difficult in some cases. Way out of my area of expertise.

[+] etrautmann|5 years ago|reply
The little airplane bottles are frequently plastic?
[+] dfxm12|5 years ago|reply
From the article: Diageo uses less than 5% of plastic in its total packaging.

Normal 750ml bottles sold to consumers are likely glass, but who knows about smaller bottles or products sold to other markets.

[+] jey|5 years ago|reply
What's the inside coating made of that doesn't get dissolved away by 40% ethanol solution?
[+] ficklepickle|5 years ago|reply
I just found out about zein[0] the other day. It's made from corn. Not sure about ethanol resistance, though. Wikipedia says it is used to line coffee cups, for example. How often it is used, compared to plastics, I do not know.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zein

[+] knodi123|5 years ago|reply
yeah, my understanding was that most paper packaging these days was lined with a very thin layer of plastic or foil.

but "pure paper" is what they're claiming... maybe there's a new tech? or maybe they're doing that cheap marketing trick where you say "20% of the package is made entirely out of nothing but 100% pure paper!"

[+] mattmaroon|5 years ago|reply
Probably an epoxy that’s sprayed on. That’s what lines aluminum cans.
[+] himinlomax|5 years ago|reply
> is fully recyclable

Glass if fully recyclable and reusable.

[+] greenshackle2|5 years ago|reply
Glass is more recyclable than paper. Paper is really only "downcyclable", each cycle shortens the average fiber length.
[+] mytailorisrich|5 years ago|reply
My understanding is that glass and plastics recycle much better than waxed paper.

The issue with glass is that it requires a lot of energy to produce and recycle, and is heavy, which means more energy to transport it.

Properly recycled plastics may in fact be the most environmentally friendly option ...

[+] Spooky23|5 years ago|reply
Environmental people will bikeshed you to death on glass.

Common issues:

- Manufacturing glass == high heat, heat == carbon.

- Reusing glass bottles involve cleaning, and the impact of warm water and soap is significant.

- Glass bottles are heavier than plastic. So delivering a bottle of coke in a glass bottle supposedly uses more resources than a plastic bottle. (Walmart used this to assert that Sam's Club foam cups were friendlier than cardboard a few years ago)

Basically, unless you ride a bike to the ocean, collect saltwater with an unbleached paper straw, and desalinate it using a solar-powered device that weighs less than 5 pounds, you are a horrible person.

[+] alexpotato|5 years ago|reply
But is not biodegradable on shorter time scales.

e.g. a glass bottle in a woodland setting could stay in that form for thousands of years. A paper bottle would last a few weeks at most.

[+] raducu|5 years ago|reply
Diageo, ah... the memories, it was nice writing software for them. Actually the coleagues were nice, the software was shitty.
[+] forgotmypw17|5 years ago|reply
did you work for a CerTain agency in nyc? ))
[+] kgwxd|5 years ago|reply
I hate Johnnie Walker but I don't think I've ever seen it in a plastic bottle. Isn't is usually glass?
[+] rjsw|5 years ago|reply
I'm guessing that bottles sold at airports might be plastic, to save weight and for security reasons.
[+] jacknews|5 years ago|reply
it might be in a plastic bottle for vagrants perhaps

whisky should be in a glass bottle

[+] forgotmypw17|5 years ago|reply
Until stated otherwise, I'm going to assume these paper bottles will be plastic-lined, like milk "cartons", and so just as non-biodegradeable and non-recyclable.

Most of the time I've seen a switch from glass to plastic or "not plastic", the real reason is to cut down on product loss due to glass breakage en route, which is pretty big.

[+] dkdk8283|5 years ago|reply
What a joke. Paper isn’t a suitable container for long term storage of liquid. Paper straws are also a joke. I carry a big bundle of plastic straws in my car now.
[+] ergwwrt|5 years ago|reply
Yea and glass is recyclable too
[+] trekrich|5 years ago|reply
whats wrong with glass? Its worked for years!
[+] 082349872349872|5 years ago|reply
> ... ramps up efforts to tackle plastic waste.

What kind of savage lets their alcohol touch plastic? ;-)

[+] twic|5 years ago|reply
The kind of savage who drinks Johnnie Walker.