Ah, this brings back memories from my childhood. The first programming language I ever used was Logo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language). This was sometime back in 2002-2003 when I was 7 or 8 years old. We had very basic PCs in my school, many of which were purely DOS based.
I remember the turtle game, as well as lego logo. It must have been something like 1991.
The teachers at my school were just completely clueless at teaching programming or anything to do with computers. We would just run through work sheets that told you what to type. Hardly anyone got any real instruction. It wasn't until DOOM came out that I got motivated to self-teach.
I remember when teaching a subset of LOGO that we wanted a cool input program for students. So I built reverse logo [1] to turn an image (black-and-white, contiguous) into a logo program that draws it.
One would think so! It was taught at our school (didn't take the course myself, about 15 years old at the time) and I only remember my classmates complaining, that it was boring. Some of them wanted to learn "real programming" instead. Drawing shapes with a turtle felt overly childish and pedagogic even then.
Logo was I think the second language I learned after Commodore Basic but the on the C64. The third was probably Gary Kitchen's Game Maker scripting. This was all mid 80s. Logo though did feel transformative to me.
Same here. Logo was my first programming language at 9 or 10 back in 1989 in eastern Europe. Long live Logo. Kids nowadays ought to have a similar intro
I was looking to file some issues with the project but couldn't find a repo. Guess I'm too used to expecting things to be open source.
Anyway, I'm hoping the authors see this. I tried Shelly for a while and here's what I think:
1. The tutorial needs background. Its text displayed over more text and that's tough to read. For the first point in the tutorial, I couldn't locate where it was visually and had to carefully read what the various parts of the screen were saying.
2. Make the editor stop complaining while I'm writing something. Its too aggressive and made me immediately think of https://i.redd.it/nygb741tho951.gif.
Overall, I like the concept. I'd have wished the syntax was more like javascript so someone learning this could more easily translate their skills to other parts of the web, but I guess we have to compromise that for the nostalgia and simple commands like `right 90` etc. I love this!
1. the background should be almost-opaque, with very little transparency. Can you share which browser/OS? Probably some missing CSS :)
2. Ha :D Maybe a grace period? Did you mostly mind the squiggly underline errors, or the red box that appears at the bottom? Giving feedback soon enough but not being aggressive is a delicate balance, there's probably room for improvement here.
There was a discussion on HN a few years back about Seymour Papert’s Mindstorms: Children, Computers, and Powerful Ideas (1980), which may be relevant if you're interested in the history of Turtle and Logo. [1]
I've been collecting resources for self-directed programming/learning that kids can use for at-home, project-based learning. Some family members are looking for ideas for their children.
I'll playtest it with a young learner and see how far they get through the tutorial.
What a blast from the past!
Logo was my first exposure to programming in elementary school (1981-1986). This was fun to play with and the tutorial is well done. I was surprised by the lack of any kind of "run" button, but I think this was a good choice for this kind of learning environment. Neat!
Very interesting! I remember programming Logo turtle instructions on iMac G3s. I do wish the author would have provided a repository or at least some information on how it was built. Usually HN users are more interested in how it works than using the actual tool or application.
This looks really great and obviously brings back lots of happy memories!
One little thing - is the opacity scale the wrong way round? I would expect high opacity to mean it's not very transparent and low opacity to mean it's mostly transparent.
Remembering my childhood. Shelly looks same as Logo. The second language that I learnt after GW-Basic at my school. Thanks to the creator. Will undoubtedly teach this language to my 8 years old nephew. :)
This is really fun, thanks for sharing this with the world. Kids should find this so I'd try to make sure schools/teachers find out about your product. Thanks
It would be more accurate to call this a programming based drawing tool or a learning tool. The thing that makes this unique is the features and being able to draw in the browser, not the actual language or rules itself.
Comments like these are absolutely useless and contribute nothing to the conversation at all. There are benefits making a language, and people's goal doesn't always have to be "get as many people to use it as possible."
kashishgrover|5 years ago
This is a great tool to teach kids programming!
metalliqaz|5 years ago
The teachers at my school were just completely clueless at teaching programming or anything to do with computers. We would just run through work sheets that told you what to type. Hardly anyone got any real instruction. It wasn't until DOOM came out that I got motivated to self-teach.
nitnelave|5 years ago
[1]: https://github.com/nitnelave/reverse-logo
manojlds|5 years ago
thesuperbigfrog|5 years ago
https://docs.python.org/3/library/turtle.html
vlz|5 years ago
One would think so! It was taught at our school (didn't take the course myself, about 15 years old at the time) and I only remember my classmates complaining, that it was boring. Some of them wanted to learn "real programming" instead. Drawing shapes with a turtle felt overly childish and pedagogic even then.
th0ma5|5 years ago
082349872349872|5 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQE82derooc
grugagag|5 years ago
aero31aero|5 years ago
Anyway, I'm hoping the authors see this. I tried Shelly for a while and here's what I think:
1. The tutorial needs background. Its text displayed over more text and that's tough to read. For the first point in the tutorial, I couldn't locate where it was visually and had to carefully read what the various parts of the screen were saying.
2. Make the editor stop complaining while I'm writing something. Its too aggressive and made me immediately think of https://i.redd.it/nygb741tho951.gif.
Overall, I like the concept. I'd have wished the syntax was more like javascript so someone learning this could more easily translate their skills to other parts of the web, but I guess we have to compromise that for the nostalgia and simple commands like `right 90` etc. I love this!
adamw1pl|5 years ago
1. the background should be almost-opaque, with very little transparency. Can you share which browser/OS? Probably some missing CSS :)
2. Ha :D Maybe a grace period? Did you mostly mind the squiggly underline errors, or the red box that appears at the bottom? Giving feedback soon enough but not being aggressive is a delicate balance, there's probably room for improvement here.
kashishgrover|5 years ago
m-ueberall|5 years ago
adamw1pl|5 years ago
kwasson|5 years ago
There was a discussion on HN a few years back about Seymour Papert’s Mindstorms: Children, Computers, and Powerful Ideas (1980), which may be relevant if you're interested in the history of Turtle and Logo. [1]
I've been collecting resources for self-directed programming/learning that kids can use for at-home, project-based learning. Some family members are looking for ideas for their children.
I'll playtest it with a young learner and see how far they get through the tutorial.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18361665
[edited for clarity]
adamw1pl|5 years ago
The tutorial is only a start for what we are planning, so this is an area we'd like to work on next. Hence any pointers or ideas are welcome :)
mannschott|5 years ago
ntnlabs|5 years ago
https://archiv.inet.sk/images/user/pastierik/kancelaria/zofk...
metrokoi|5 years ago
bshimmin|5 years ago
One little thing - is the opacity scale the wrong way round? I would expect high opacity to mean it's not very transparent and low opacity to mean it's mostly transparent.
adamw1pl|5 years ago
fictorial|5 years ago
thescribbblr|5 years ago
unknown|5 years ago
[deleted]
grugagag|5 years ago
shadykiller|5 years ago
adamw1pl|5 years ago
haseeb6979|5 years ago
[deleted]
haseeb6979|5 years ago
[deleted]
agigao|5 years ago
metrokoi|5 years ago
BiteCode_dev|5 years ago
This language is very niche, it will never get good support, tooling, doc, and maintenance.
I know making languages are fun, but unless fun is the main goal and adoption is not, craft a good lib with a clean and simple API.
Adopting this DSL would not be reasonable on the long run.
thosakwe|5 years ago