Here's another angle. The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries. A few examples of excellence that are still available to Chinese citizens are the NBA, Apple products, US education and Tesla cars. Most nations export excellence of some type to China.
Having these examples in their hands or on their screens likely initiates a mild cognitive dissonance: "The CCP news tells me how terrible the USA is, yet, these elements in my life are excellent beyond what is created by my own country." It's reminiscent of Russian defectors who couldn't rationalize the images they were shown of US poverty, illustrated by films from the Great Depression wherein the 1930s streets of New York were clogged with cars. Or, Boris Yeltzen visiting an American grocery store in 1989, and being overwhelmed at the variety of products and full shelves [0].
As the reins of censorship and propaganda tightens in China, there may be less and less of the world to pierce through and belie the narrative they are fed. Perhaps we should not abandon them any sooner than we must.
With that said, if it's a deliberate approach, we need to get the messaging right. The NBA should stick to 'we are ambassadors for the USA to the world' and leave any politics at that.
Your comment is about 15 years out of date. There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. This type of thinking is why western foreign policy continues to get China totally wrong. Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience.
> Having these examples in their hands or on their screens likely initiates a mild cognitive dissonance
You’d be surprised, but no, it doesn’t. And from my experience, older people sometimes just kind of don’t like America, in the same way older Americans don’t like Cuba. Government says their government is bad, don’t really know the people but maybe they’re “brainwashed” unlike us, but the few I’ve met are okay so no reason to really do anything but ignore the country.
Younger people I’ve talked to seem to know a considerable amount about America, and quite a lot of bad. The idea seems to be that companies build things in China because their country can’t and companies like the NBA and so on focus on them because they’re more important now. Which, well, isn’t clearly wrong. If all those American things up and vanished, it’d be a topic for a week and people would stop caring. It’s more normal for products and media to just vanish.
The NBA isn’t an ambassador of anything. It’s a corporate sports team that knows China doesn’t really give a shit about them, but it’s a good chance to get money from what’s likely to be the largest economy in about a decade. That’s all any of these companies are doing, and their road of good intentions is just pumping money into China’s goal of being number 1.
I think it’s entirely fine for the NBA to decide that they want to decide they want to be friendly towards the Chinese market. I also think it’s fine for America to drop the NBA for being the weak, hypocritically “woke” corporation that it is. Either drop politics altogether and be a regular soulless corporation, or actually stand up for what’s right but not only in specific, comfy locations and with safe political statements.
>The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries.
Most of my friends back in China, especially devs, use VPN daily. Many Chinese learn English via English media or TV shows. check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-s...
>The CCP news tells me how terrible the USA is, yet, these elements in my life are excellent beyond what is created by my own country.
just not true. I was really shocked about the homeless situation in NA which was never really reported back in China.
and also from u/bpodgursky
>the Chinese students with the education and wealth to study abroad are already among the top 5% in China.
Not the case for most graduate students. Especially the ones received scholarships (such as me).
Please check your sources guys. Try learn a bit Mandarin if you could or at least talk to Chinese ppl living around you. China is sick yes. But imagine diagnosing the illness of a patient without looking or talking to them but only via a malicious translator.
While I think your point is mostly valid and benign, Your impression of China seems outdated and tone might seem a bit arrogant to a native Chinese. Chinese people recognize the gap and appreciate the excellence in their daily life. The CCP rarely censored in the way you described(e.g. it never says China’s education/manufacturing is the best, instead they call out the remaining gap constantly).
As a matter of fact, the biggest concern I have is the political climate in the US has done more harm than the CCP can even dream of with any propaganda. Overseas Chineses tell more and more story of how chaotic US is to their family in China and that spreads. Ten years ago it’s a no brainer to send you child to get US education but now many parents are reconsidering.
> Perhaps we should not abandon them any sooner than we must.
Who said anything about the NBA abandoning China? Their government is free to permit watching it or not.
> The NBA should stick to 'we are ambassadors for the USA to the world' and leave any politics at that.
Silence can also be a political viewpoint. If you don't stand up for what you believe in you may lose it. The NBA has done a balancing act for the Chinese government, and neither moneyed interests nor government politics dictates what will happen next.
> A few examples of excellence that are still available to Chinese citizens are the NBA, Apple products, US education and Tesla cars.
I disagree on NBA (sportsmen are not a sign of overall excellence in a country), and Apple (high-end Huawei phones are ridiculously more advanced than apple in hardware terms). USA Education still has a great reputation, and most Musk enterprises are awesome and inspiring.
This claim is objectively false since Chinese people become more nationalistic after visiting western countries. The cognitive dissonance isn't that western countries are better than expected, it is that they are worse. Look no further than the political activities by Chinese students in western universities.
The business value for a nation of fans = (Number of fans) x (avg profitability per fan) x (probability of losing fan over political decision)
I would argue that while US fans are more profitable in aggregate (first two terms) the reason the NBA sides with China is due to the 3rd term.
Chinese fans are vastly more sensitive to perceived "anti-Chinese" policies, whereas most US fans don't care one way or the other.
Therefor the NBA's position is very predictable. If you want the NBA to care, you have to convince US NBA fans that this political stance is worth not spending money on. Good luck with that because the NBA fans I know, don't care at all.
Which is why millionaire players and coaches are absolutely mute (or are muted) on any China issue, or claim that the issue is complicated.
I think it's healthy to remind people, from time to time, how Hollywod (e.g. Tencent), the NBA, and other American institutions have sold themselves to CCP money.
The funny thing that you can order it from SEA (mostly Thailand) for roughly ~$30 through https://www.dhgate.com/ DHGate is perfect to buy fake jerseys that are pretty much the same with genuine tags. Either stolen from the factory or they work overhours, I don't know. But the quality and the actual product is almost always the same.
There is a huge cost to the NBA if they stand with Hong Kong.
There is also a very small cost to the NBA and or more probably no cost at all if they fully embrace other movements such as BLM.
People upset about this are upset because the NBA (and other sports leagues and media) have become more socially active or political lately but they still refuse to speak up on topics that hurt their bottom line.
its funny to me that you can put "fuck the police" on NBA jersey but you can't put "freehongkong". its kinda double standards, isn't it?
NBA really want that Chinese market. i find it interesting that Western corporation is willing to abandoned the western values they championed for money or rather i guess Corporation don't give a fuck about anything as long as they make money.
I tried buying some custom Nikes with "ADIDAS" written on the side. The online tool explicitly banned it. I got the online form to take "PUMA" but the shoes arrived with no custom message.
China won, they already hold power on all relevant companies in the US and Europe. Thing is, how can we make sure we at least keep some individual liberty as they slowly take control of the world.
America’s organizations want access to the Chinese market and, absent any regulations to the contrary, when necessary are willing to compromise the values of our American Way of Life. But those regulations are (finally) coming. In the meantime, when they are caught doing things like this, they risk being attacked on Twitter by the President.
When I first read this headline, I thought it was referring to the social justice statements that NBA players now have the option to add to their jerseys in lieu of their names. Only after a double take did I realize that this is about the jerseys that fans customize and purchase for themselves!
It won't change the minds of the millions of people in political power in China. Lots of Chinese feel quite strongly that the Taiwan/Tibet/Hong Kong claims are legitimate and that the international community is attacking China.
I guess it would be like if the US was forced to cede Texas back to Mexico because they lost a war. Most Americans, regardless of political party, would hold the opinion that Texas is still American territory, regardless of international opinions on the subject.
Not necessarily. The question that must be asked is, "Why did China institute such a system of authoritarian rule in the first place, and why does she allow it to persist?" The Chinese have yet to develop the same sort of republican values we have in America, so removing the current government alone won't do much good. This is the same problem as with the Middle East, Africa, etc.
This mass censorship that we are living in allows and promotes all sorts of manifestations of the so called anti-racism white over black. It's of interest to the controlling regime to do so.
But, when there are manifestations against the totalitarism, they are forbidden. Because, again, the deep govern owns the political, economical, mass-media and so forth all over the world.
[+] [-] 11thEarlOfMar|5 years ago|reply
Having these examples in their hands or on their screens likely initiates a mild cognitive dissonance: "The CCP news tells me how terrible the USA is, yet, these elements in my life are excellent beyond what is created by my own country." It's reminiscent of Russian defectors who couldn't rationalize the images they were shown of US poverty, illustrated by films from the Great Depression wherein the 1930s streets of New York were clogged with cars. Or, Boris Yeltzen visiting an American grocery store in 1989, and being overwhelmed at the variety of products and full shelves [0].
As the reins of censorship and propaganda tightens in China, there may be less and less of the world to pierce through and belie the narrative they are fed. Perhaps we should not abandon them any sooner than we must.
With that said, if it's a deliberate approach, we need to get the messaging right. The NBA should stick to 'we are ambassadors for the USA to the world' and leave any politics at that.
[0] https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When...
[+] [-] throwaway2474|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fiblye|5 years ago|reply
You’d be surprised, but no, it doesn’t. And from my experience, older people sometimes just kind of don’t like America, in the same way older Americans don’t like Cuba. Government says their government is bad, don’t really know the people but maybe they’re “brainwashed” unlike us, but the few I’ve met are okay so no reason to really do anything but ignore the country.
Younger people I’ve talked to seem to know a considerable amount about America, and quite a lot of bad. The idea seems to be that companies build things in China because their country can’t and companies like the NBA and so on focus on them because they’re more important now. Which, well, isn’t clearly wrong. If all those American things up and vanished, it’d be a topic for a week and people would stop caring. It’s more normal for products and media to just vanish.
The NBA isn’t an ambassador of anything. It’s a corporate sports team that knows China doesn’t really give a shit about them, but it’s a good chance to get money from what’s likely to be the largest economy in about a decade. That’s all any of these companies are doing, and their road of good intentions is just pumping money into China’s goal of being number 1.
I think it’s entirely fine for the NBA to decide that they want to decide they want to be friendly towards the Chinese market. I also think it’s fine for America to drop the NBA for being the weak, hypocritically “woke” corporation that it is. Either drop politics altogether and be a regular soulless corporation, or actually stand up for what’s right but not only in specific, comfy locations and with safe political statements.
[+] [-] theseadroid|5 years ago|reply
>The CCP news tells me how terrible the USA is, yet, these elements in my life are excellent beyond what is created by my own country. just not true. I was really shocked about the homeless situation in NA which was never really reported back in China.
and also from u/bpodgursky >the Chinese students with the education and wealth to study abroad are already among the top 5% in China. Not the case for most graduate students. Especially the ones received scholarships (such as me).
Please check your sources guys. Try learn a bit Mandarin if you could or at least talk to Chinese ppl living around you. China is sick yes. But imagine diagnosing the illness of a patient without looking or talking to them but only via a malicious translator.
[+] [-] whoevercares|5 years ago|reply
As a matter of fact, the biggest concern I have is the political climate in the US has done more harm than the CCP can even dream of with any propaganda. Overseas Chineses tell more and more story of how chaotic US is to their family in China and that spreads. Ten years ago it’s a no brainer to send you child to get US education but now many parents are reconsidering.
[+] [-] robert_foss|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unityByFreedom|5 years ago|reply
Who said anything about the NBA abandoning China? Their government is free to permit watching it or not.
> The NBA should stick to 'we are ambassadors for the USA to the world' and leave any politics at that.
Silence can also be a political viewpoint. If you don't stand up for what you believe in you may lose it. The NBA has done a balancing act for the Chinese government, and neither moneyed interests nor government politics dictates what will happen next.
[+] [-] amrx431|5 years ago|reply
Counter-points
- China doesn't want to sensor innovation, but control it.
- Chinese companies and people have access to the latest innovation in all fields as most of the stuff is assembled there.
- China reverse-engineers these innovations of West and float the market with competition which are many a times subsidized by Communist Party.
- Censorship of individuals does not matter as long as Chinese companies have access to latest innovation which they can reverse engineer.
[+] [-] ASalazarMX|5 years ago|reply
I disagree on NBA (sportsmen are not a sign of overall excellence in a country), and Apple (high-end Huawei phones are ridiculously more advanced than apple in hardware terms). USA Education still has a great reputation, and most Musk enterprises are awesome and inspiring.
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] bigpumpkin|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ezluckyfree|5 years ago|reply
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-09/china-s-5...
[+] [-] stepstop|5 years ago|reply
I disagree. The size of the fanbase is surprising, and so is the implication of this behaviour
[+] [-] koheripbal|5 years ago|reply
I would argue that while US fans are more profitable in aggregate (first two terms) the reason the NBA sides with China is due to the 3rd term.
Chinese fans are vastly more sensitive to perceived "anti-Chinese" policies, whereas most US fans don't care one way or the other.
Therefor the NBA's position is very predictable. If you want the NBA to care, you have to convince US NBA fans that this political stance is worth not spending money on. Good luck with that because the NBA fans I know, don't care at all.
[+] [-] rumanator|5 years ago|reply
Só what? Why should that dictate what letters I can or cannot put o the custom jersey I buy myself and pay with my own money?
[+] [-] bassman9000|5 years ago|reply
I think it's healthy to remind people, from time to time, how Hollywod (e.g. Tencent), the NBA, and other American institutions have sold themselves to CCP money.
[+] [-] Tempest1981|5 years ago|reply
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/07/business/houston-rockets-nba-...
[+] [-] 11thEarlOfMar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wdr1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reedwolf|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dirtyid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hn_throwaway_99|5 years ago|reply
https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-china/nba...
[+] [-] racl101|5 years ago|reply
It seems that they all have moral, entanglements (to borrow Jada Pinkett's parlance), with China that they cannot seem to reconcile.
But they want to lecture us about important cause du jour?
Please! Spare me the self righteousness.
[+] [-] bdz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atarian|5 years ago|reply
Source: Have a friend who bought counterfeit items and got held up at customs for it.
[+] [-] make3|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] frogpelt|5 years ago|reply
There is a huge cost to the NBA if they stand with Hong Kong.
There is also a very small cost to the NBA and or more probably no cost at all if they fully embrace other movements such as BLM.
People upset about this are upset because the NBA (and other sports leagues and media) have become more socially active or political lately but they still refuse to speak up on topics that hurt their bottom line.
[+] [-] rs23296008n1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MangoCoffee|5 years ago|reply
NBA really want that Chinese market. i find it interesting that Western corporation is willing to abandoned the western values they championed for money or rather i guess Corporation don't give a fuck about anything as long as they make money.
[+] [-] peacefulhat|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Synaesthesia|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jraby3|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baby|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lanevorockz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pyuser583|5 years ago|reply
Notice how in Top Gun 2, the Taiwanese regalia had been removed.
American elites have no problem censoring American citizens (in America) to appease Chinese elites.
This has been going on for a very long time. What’s different is people are realizing it.
[+] [-] epx|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mc32|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vaxman|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Buldak|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] motoboi|5 years ago|reply
Think about that for a moment. How many friends of you, American citizen, don’t play basketball but like to watch it?
This is why China is more important to NBA than America.
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] yumraj|5 years ago|reply
That’ll take care of all the underlying issues.
[+] [-] mywittyname|5 years ago|reply
I guess it would be like if the US was forced to cede Texas back to Mexico because they lost a war. Most Americans, regardless of political party, would hold the opinion that Texas is still American territory, regardless of international opinions on the subject.
[+] [-] mmm_grayons|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] libx|5 years ago|reply