Unlike the kernel, desktop development for Linux is done almost wholly by volunteers in their spare time. There aren't many paid developer seats for KDE, Gnome, et al.
Bold new interfaces, new APIs, and complete reinventions of the desktop metaphor are really exciting hobby projects for these brave volunteers.
Perfecting backwards compatibility, re-implementing buggy behaviour from prior versions, and ensuring ABI stability do not make exciting projects. These are the torturously painful, labor-intensive foundations of Microsoft's success.
As another issue, my mother-in-law's SuSE 9.1 machine has stopped playing videos, and she can no longer provide feedback on eBay. The latter is important, so I started the process up upgrading the installation of Flash.
Enter Dependency Hell.
It's still not working, and now several other things are broken. It looks like I'll have to provide a complete re-install, but it's unclear that I can find a version of Linux that still works on the hardware.
I hate system administration, and more and more I'm forced to tinker with machines.
Rhetorical Question: Why can't they "Just Work" ?
I'm seriously considering moving to a Mac and trying to get everything I want working there. Joy. Another month of tinkering instead of producing.
Every couple of years I try linux for a week, then promptly switch back to the mac.
I had a G5 imac that I used for over 5 years without every having to reinstall the OS. I finally had to go through the pain of a fresh install when I bought a new imac this past year, but once every 5 or 6 years is fine. I'm still using my first gen macbook pro. I really want to use linux, but I value my time enormously now that I have 2 kids, this means I use macs.
Just install a different browser. Chrome has Flash built-in, so no dependencies there. If you want Chromium, it's just a question of finding the right repository hosting pre-built packages.
Also, it sounds like there is a discrepancy between how you initially installed Flash, vs. how you're trying to do it now. If you have the Flash repository, it should be a simple update. "Should be," but since it's not, it sounds like you're using a different method now.
If you keep /home on its own partition, re-installing the distro should be trivial (although definitely overkill).
In terms of why the browser can't leave feedback anymore, nor play videos, those are bizarre breakages which makes me think you can't be sure it's not the hardware (perhaps run "dmesg" just to see if there's anything interesting, always do Memtest86+ to make sure you have good RAM).
Is your mother-in-law really using a 7 year old version of Linux?
I would assume that's a typo, but then again your description of updating doesn't sound like any recent Linux experience I've had. And you do mention the hardware is too old for a modern distro.
If she was using that version, and the only thing that broke after all this time is Flash then that's pretty good going.
Totally agree with you. I also believe that operating systems should embrace the chrome way of just updating silently by default. Power users can disable this.
This guy has a point. Ubuntu's constant meddling with the Desktop and adoption of immature software as default is why I left it for Linux Mint. LM 10 has "just worked" for me so far, and LM Debian Edition also look spromising. By contrast, Ubuntu breaks a few important things every time they release a new version.
I don't plan to consider returning until Ubuntu Desktop Edition "stabilizes" a bit. But that doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon, what with the impending switch to Unity, and the rumored switch to Wayland, and ever tighter integration with Canonical's proprietary offerings...
GNU/Linux is already rock solid at the base system level, but some distros just ruin the Desktop experience.
They have an interesting problem on their hands. Their current user base is nerds who have a bunch of power user use cases, but they want to attract non-nerds. How do they do the latter while keeping the former happy? It's like republicans trying to sound reasonable while also making their base happy. It's like tight rope walking on a strand of floss.
I have used Ubuntu Desktop (Lucid & Maverick) everyday for years now and certainly don't have any stability issues, I don't see how changing to Mint (based heavily on Ubuntu) would affect stability.
I also have to ask what is this immature software as default you talk about?
Ubuntu is unstable precisely because it's a close fork from Debian unstable ;)
If you want an environment with long term stability, you might want to move to Debian Stable, which exists for this very purpose, and these days is typically as easy to install as Ubuntu.
There is very little reason to dread this move. I am not sure I like Unity yet, but I applaud Ubuntu for thinking outside the box. If you install Ubuntu 11.04 and want the old user interface, you can pretty much get it. Just install and then at the login screen, choose the classic desktop. Then, run the command metacity --replace. On one Narwhal test machine, I created a startup application to run this command on each boot. This gives you a desktop almost exactly like the old desktop. So, you can have the old or the new. Choice is nice and everyone is served.
This seems to be what the IPad and Chrome OS are doing.
Here's where linux fails on this front. Often it doesn't just work out of the box. I have to figure out how to install proprietary drivers, then I had to figure out how to configure it to get basic visual features like the drop shadow around the top most window. There is still an obnoxious flicker when I use desktop switching, the sound stops working after I do an update, etc. This all happened to me on the last two versions of ubuntu on a dell optiplex. So I went back to my mac.
>This seems to be what the IPad and Chrome OS are doing.
I agree. However it's MUCH easier to just work if there is only one hardware platform to develop for. This has been responsible for a huge share of Apple's reputation for "just working" and reliability since the beginning.
[+] [-] hapless|15 years ago|reply
Bold new interfaces, new APIs, and complete reinventions of the desktop metaphor are really exciting hobby projects for these brave volunteers.
Perfecting backwards compatibility, re-implementing buggy behaviour from prior versions, and ensuring ABI stability do not make exciting projects. These are the torturously painful, labor-intensive foundations of Microsoft's success.
[+] [-] RiderOfGiraffes|15 years ago|reply
Enter Dependency Hell.
It's still not working, and now several other things are broken. It looks like I'll have to provide a complete re-install, but it's unclear that I can find a version of Linux that still works on the hardware.
I hate system administration, and more and more I'm forced to tinker with machines.
Rhetorical Question: Why can't they "Just Work" ?
I'm seriously considering moving to a Mac and trying to get everything I want working there. Joy. Another month of tinkering instead of producing.
[+] [-] jshen|15 years ago|reply
I had a G5 imac that I used for over 5 years without every having to reinstall the OS. I finally had to go through the pain of a fresh install when I bought a new imac this past year, but once every 5 or 6 years is fine. I'm still using my first gen macbook pro. I really want to use linux, but I value my time enormously now that I have 2 kids, this means I use macs.
[+] [-] rjbond3rd|15 years ago|reply
Also, it sounds like there is a discrepancy between how you initially installed Flash, vs. how you're trying to do it now. If you have the Flash repository, it should be a simple update. "Should be," but since it's not, it sounds like you're using a different method now.
If you keep /home on its own partition, re-installing the distro should be trivial (although definitely overkill).
In terms of why the browser can't leave feedback anymore, nor play videos, those are bizarre breakages which makes me think you can't be sure it's not the hardware (perhaps run "dmesg" just to see if there's anything interesting, always do Memtest86+ to make sure you have good RAM).
[+] [-] ZeroGravitas|15 years ago|reply
I would assume that's a typo, but then again your description of updating doesn't sound like any recent Linux experience I've had. And you do mention the hardware is too old for a modern distro.
If she was using that version, and the only thing that broke after all this time is Flash then that's pretty good going.
[+] [-] dman|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kijinbear|15 years ago|reply
I don't plan to consider returning until Ubuntu Desktop Edition "stabilizes" a bit. But that doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon, what with the impending switch to Unity, and the rumored switch to Wayland, and ever tighter integration with Canonical's proprietary offerings...
GNU/Linux is already rock solid at the base system level, but some distros just ruin the Desktop experience.
[+] [-] jshen|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cas|15 years ago|reply
I also have to ask what is this immature software as default you talk about?
[+] [-] mdisraeli|15 years ago|reply
If you want an environment with long term stability, you might want to move to Debian Stable, which exists for this very purpose, and these days is typically as easy to install as Ubuntu.
[+] [-] moondowner|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SecurityMatters|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jshen|15 years ago|reply
Here's where linux fails on this front. Often it doesn't just work out of the box. I have to figure out how to install proprietary drivers, then I had to figure out how to configure it to get basic visual features like the drop shadow around the top most window. There is still an obnoxious flicker when I use desktop switching, the sound stops working after I do an update, etc. This all happened to me on the last two versions of ubuntu on a dell optiplex. So I went back to my mac.
[+] [-] roadnottaken|15 years ago|reply
I agree. However it's MUCH easier to just work if there is only one hardware platform to develop for. This has been responsible for a huge share of Apple's reputation for "just working" and reliability since the beginning.
[+] [-] dman|15 years ago|reply