[departure]

Then don't go to a restaurant or bar. Down here in Texas we opened in May and left it up to the individual to make the health choice. I'm active and going to the gym daily and bars during the weekend, but I have friends who won't go outside and haven't dined in a restaurant since March.

[macintux]

Given the disaster that has been south Texas healthcare for the last week or two, that hardly seems like a ringing endorsement.

It’s not all about personal choice. Everyone is impacted by the decisions we make.

How many healthcare personnel have to die so people can go to the bar?

[Covzire]

Great, now apply that logic to automobiles in general.

I think more people understand the situation with COVID than some realize, that it's a trainwreck from top to bottom and a lot of the decisions being made are far more political than they should be, as evidenced by the sheer amount of hypocrisy surrounding the supposed safety of protesting for left wing causes vs anything else. Even if you're totally right, the optics of this hypocrisy have created a permanent and un-mendable fracture where a large chunk of the country is never going to believe anything Coumo or De Belasio say about COVID.

[wenc]

Not agreeing or disagreeing with Cuomo or De Blasio -- merely addressing the philosophical issue around the framing:

The issue with that framing is that it's really not a personal choice issue because one's choices in this instance are not sufficiently isolated from the rest of the system. Many choices are, but this is not. If one exercises one's personal choice incorrectly, the entire system suffers.

One might say, everything in life is a risk and everything we do affects someone else. Well yes, but not everything in life is has huge downside risk and exponential spread. This is a different class of risk.

(that said, I think there are ways to lower the probability of spread at a bar (spaced outdoor seating) and at a gym (masks + distancing). Excessive alcohol consumption is a risk for noncompliant behavior though.)

[makomk]

New York City is probably way past the point where this kind of exponential spread risk is something to be worrying about, and imposing these kind of measures now seems like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted and run halfway across the country. The antibody testing figures I've seen give an infection rate higher than Stockholm, infection epicenter of no-lockdown open-resturants land. I've heard it said that NYC was already past their peak before lockdown, and given what happened in Sweden I can quite believe it.

[robertoandred]

You know infections occur outside of gyms and restaurants and bars, right? Places like grocery stores, homes, doctors offices, places people HAVE to go. You get infected at a gym, infect someone at the grocery store, and they infect their parent at home, and that parent dies. Good job! You made a great health choice for them.

[king_magic]

Oh yeah, sure, Texas opened in May. How's that working out? Spoiler alert: Texas is now an absolute disaster zone. Sometimes leaving health choices that affect other people up to individuals is a really terrible idea, as evidenced by the disgraceful state that your state is currently in.

[txsoftwaredev]

I've been living my life pretty much as before Covid here in Texas and have not experienced this disaster zone you are referencing. The state of TX has experienced around 6,878 deaths out of 28.9 million Texans. I'll take my chances with those odds.

[iancmceachern]

Yeah, how is that working out for you (Texas), not well....

[departure]

220 deaths in my 2million+ county is nothing. Society would of carried on perfectly fine.

The economic depression screwed us over way more.

[rorykoehler]

This is heartbreaking.