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Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

483 points| Scaevolus | 5 years ago |techcrunch.com | reply

418 comments

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[+] w0mbat|5 years ago|reply
This guy had such a sweet deal at Google originally, it staggers me that he'd go to these lengths to steal even more.

He was getting a massive salarY, bonuses in the millions, and he had persuaded Google to pay him even more money through a side-hustle company of his while remaining an employee. Then he quits and steals their stuff.

[+] kanobo|5 years ago|reply
He was so brazen in using identical schematic and suppliers. It amazing to think all this is a result of the supplier getting confused from having two clients with identical schematics and accidently cc'ing the wrong engineers.
[+] sushid|5 years ago|reply
You mean "confused." I think the supplier knew exactly what was happening and decided to let the cat out of the bag.
[+] chordalkeyboard|5 years ago|reply
I’ve seen this happen before in a totally different industry. Now I wonder how many opportunities there are for companies to do this and I wonder how often they get away with it.
[+] bosswipe|5 years ago|reply
Never seen that story and can't find any details after a quick Google search. I wonder how much of the anti-Levandowski news is Google or Uber PR propaganda.
[+] jimnotgym|5 years ago|reply
Why is white collar crime punished with such light sentences? I could have got that sentence for house breaking, or shoplifting to the value of $5k. I could get a lot more for dealing drugs to a few friends. Steal $100m and get 18 months, starting when the world is a nicer place. The world really is set up for rich people.
[+] westicecoast32|5 years ago|reply
Someone made this point elsewhere. It's a 'trade secret' and 'stealing' is not as accurate as 'leaking' or 'copying' as it doesn't prevent the original owners from using it.

Usually civil lawsuits are fines. Should your (ex) employeer be able to put you in prison? Because I can see how that can be misused if a few figured out how to be convincing enough

[+] bzb3|5 years ago|reply
A thug stealing $1k from me would hurt me much more than someone stealing $100m from Google would hurt them.
[+] timavr|5 years ago|reply
For any non-violent crimes we should not send people to prison. I don't even know why it became a criminal matter. Civil courts can do that job really well.

If we prosecute everyone who took information from the previous job, then there will no sales people left. I don't know any SaaS sales person who doesn't take their sales funnel with them.

[+] williamstein|5 years ago|reply
Much more interesting to me is that the article says "he will not need to report until threat of COVID-19 pandemic has passed." and "With no end to the COVID-19 pandemic in sight, it is possible that Levandowski’s latest lawsuit will be resolved before he even reports to jail."
[+] gilrain|5 years ago|reply
A courtesy not afforded to the largely not-rich, not-white general prison population. I don't think Levandowski should be treated worse, just noting it would be nice if less privileged prisoners were treated as humanely.
[+] glitchc|5 years ago|reply
Who said money can’t literally buy a get out of jail card?
[+] hannasanarion|5 years ago|reply
Why is the government throwing people in jail for leaking trade secrets?

Trade secrets aren't supposed to have government protection, that's the entire point: they're risky. If you want a monopoly on your technology, you're supposed to file a patent. Trade secrets were invented as a riskier way to extend your monopoly by giving up government protection.

If the government is going to give trade secrets the same protection as patents (or even more, because patent infringement doesn't come with jail time), companies have zero motivation to publish.

[+] CarelessExpert|5 years ago|reply
> Trade secrets were invented as a riskier way to extend your monopoly by giving up government protection.

You're definitely mistaken on that point. Trade secrets enjoy protection in the law, both in the US and worldwide:

https://www.uspto.gov/ip-policy/trade-secret-policy

> If the government is going to give trade secrets the same protection as patents (or even more, because patent infringement doesn't come with jail time), companies have zero motivation to publish.

Despite both forms of IP enjoying legal protections, there are many reasons to prefer trade secrets over patents or vice versa.

It's much much easier to accidentally lose trade secret protection by inadvertantly divulging those secrets, so in that sense patents are more "durable".

You also can't use trade secret protections to prevent reverse engineering, so any invention that's easily observable and reversible is not suitable for trade secret protection.

Trade secrets also can't be used to protect from independent invention, so if someone else discovers your trick, you have no recourse.

Conversely, trade secrets apply to things that cannot traditionally be patented. The classic example is, of course, the recipe for coke, as recipes in general are not patentable subject matter

Trade secrets also have no expiration date, hence again, Coke.

Obviously this is a deep well and I've only just barely scratched the surface.

[+] xxpor|5 years ago|reply
No, patents cover someone even independently coming up with the same idea and making a copy. Trade secrets don't have that protection. You can still steal trade secrets. If you couldn't, you're basically arguing IP isn't property (which is a perfectly valid philosophical position, and one I'm sympathetic to)
[+] pauljurczak|5 years ago|reply
It just proves that if you want to do a crime, do the white collar crime. White gloves treatment will ensue, if you get caught.
[+] 6nf|5 years ago|reply
Don't steal $5,000 from the liqor store, that will get you arrested at gunpoint and you'll spend many years in prison. Instead steal $50,000,000 and you'll probably still be rich once you pay the fines and complete the community service or home arrest.
[+] ponsin|5 years ago|reply
correct. society considers (IMO correctly) violent crimes much worse than non-violent crimes.
[+] dylan604|5 years ago|reply
As long as you have the money to pay for the legal fees.
[+] m3kw9|5 years ago|reply
He was recommending himself 12 month of home confinement. We’ve basically been in home confinement for 5 months now. Basically in Covid era, he’d be Scott free
[+] strogonoff|5 years ago|reply
Wait. The guy essentially says “I committed a crime, will pay US$XXX million, but we had it in our contract that the guys who hired me would take the blame, so make them pay me US$X billion.” Am I reading that correctly?

Can that contract even remain legally recognized?

Sorting out quarrels between entities who were found cooperating in a crime, evaluating whether one should compensate the other for failing to uphold its part of the deal, certainly looks like the best use of a country’s justice system.

[+] bagacrap|5 years ago|reply
No, it's a bit more complicated as Lev alleges he was unfairly screwed out of ownership of Otto (Uber Freight).
[+] jarym|5 years ago|reply
How many other criminals can avoid jail time right now due to the Covid threat?
[+] timmytokyo|5 years ago|reply
I'm sure the criminals who get special dispensation due to COVID tend to skew higher on the income/wealth scale.
[+] refurb|5 years ago|reply
Most of the non-violent prisoners in California actually.
[+] vkou|5 years ago|reply
A lot of people have been released from jails in the past few months because of Covid.
[+] dragonwriter|5 years ago|reply
Quite a lot; there is a federal policy for release to home confinement of current prisoners with COVID-19 risk factors after evaluation of other factors.
[+] SpicyLemonZest|5 years ago|reply
Quite a few. Levandowski is in California, where they're making a pretty big effort to get nonviolent criminals out of the prison system.
[+] Waterluvian|5 years ago|reply
When I have an upcoming dentist appointment looming over my head, My entire week can be ruined by anxiety. I have no idea how people can be sentenced to serious time in prison that will happen... sometime in the future...
[+] BiosElement|5 years ago|reply
For what it's worth, Befriend your dentist and the staff there and take headphones to listen to a long podcaste, video or music. It's not perfect of course, but it does wonders and letting them know also helps so they can help get you through it. Finding another dentist or looking into sedation is also an option if it's too bad. As someone with crap tons of dental work and awful teeth, I assure you you're not alone there. :)
[+] bonoboTP|5 years ago|reply
An honest and naive question from someone outside industry: where is the line between stealing trade secrets and taking your experience and expertise developed at another company to a new company. Where does a lesson learned during project X become taking the know-how of the company which it developed during project X?

Because obviously the next company pays you so much because they see in your CV that you gained experience at the other company. This also works outside tech and I'm genuinely confused how this works for people bouncing across FAANG, say. How do they not take best practices across companies? What is your personal expertise and what is company IP? Does it depend on the wording of the contract? Is it ambiguous and murky and up to the court and everyone just hopes they won't get in trouble?

[+] xoxoy|5 years ago|reply
it wasn’t ambiguous at all. he downloaded related files directly to a personal hard drive when he left.
[+] ponker|5 years ago|reply
The unsatsifying answer is "there's a grey area and a judge and jury decide" but the Levandowksi case is 100 miles beyond the grey area.
[+] lostcolony|5 years ago|reply
Taking best practices is not the same as taking trade secrets. It's ambiguous and murky, yes, but realistically, if it is ambiguous and murky, the case is likely to fall apart. It's when it's clear that you took some secret sauce with you, and replicated it wholesale, that a case is likely to be brought, and likely to be won.
[+] reactchain|5 years ago|reply
Isn't this type of thing usually a civil case - how is it that he can get jail time? Also what ever happened to Kalanick in all of this?
[+] yalogin|5 years ago|reply
I didn’t realize jail time was on the cards. Somehow thought the court was involved only to determine the compensation.
[+] sschueller|5 years ago|reply
18 months for this but the kid that hacked twitter and stole ~100k is facing life in prison. This seems insane.
[+] tibbydudeza|5 years ago|reply
His professional reputation is in tatters ... probably best he goes to China after his release as they will probably be the only ones that would not care and have the cash that would hire him.
[+] onetimemanytime|5 years ago|reply
Maybe he has some hidden, but then we'd be talking about bank and bankruptcy fraud and people are probably keeping an eye on him. Any new job after all is settled and done, will be without much responsibility or upshots
[+] an_opabinia|5 years ago|reply
If Uber shows he knew he gave them stolen trade secrets, doesn't it also follow he would have only agreed to sell Otto to them if the agreement showed he was indemnified against specifically that?
[+] shadowgovt|5 years ago|reply
"I am indemnified against violating trade secret law" isn't generally the kind of thing that finds its way into a contract.
[+] dzonga|5 years ago|reply
not otto related. why is techcrunch so slow on chromium browsers. to read the article, had to open it in firefox reader mode, private. thousands of requests to just read a wall of text.
[+] m88m|5 years ago|reply
i just blocked everything that is not site content related.