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Georgia School Reopening Photo Even Worse Than It Appears

72 points| laurex | 5 years ago |buzzfeednews.com

130 comments

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[+] enzanki_ars|5 years ago|reply
The worst part too is the fact that the students posting those photos have been suspended with potential for expulsion.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/laurenstrapagiel/north-...

[+] HumblyTossed|5 years ago|reply
The principal doubled down and said any student found criticizing the school on social media could face disciplinary consequences.

WTAF? So, now students can't criticize the schools!?

[+] rjmunro|5 years ago|reply
Sounds like a good way to stay home and avoid the virus.

It does seem sensible that sharing photos publicly could be banned for privacy of other students reasons. But criticising the school should absolutely be allowed.

[+] threatofrain|5 years ago|reply
> On Wednesday, the school addressed the controversy that had swirled around the viral photograph via an intercom announcement from North Paulding High School principal Gabe Carmona. In it, according to two people familiar with the situation, he stated that any student found criticizing the school on social media could face disciplinary consequences.
[+] jasonpeacock|5 years ago|reply
They can't suspend everyone, I really hope this results in every student posting images.
[+] owly|5 years ago|reply
Schools enforce dress codes all the time. No mini skirts, no tank tops, no sandals, no hats, etc. There’s zero reason why they couldn’t make masks mandatory.
[+] escardin|5 years ago|reply
I don't get this in general? Is it not policy that you need to wear a shirt and shoes while in a commercial building? Do you not have signs on your stores that say 'No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service'?

How are we as a society unable to reconcile the need to wear a shirt in store with the need to wear a mask? I realize that as a society we are dumb panicky animals that are afraid of any change, but this is ridiculous!

[+] politician|5 years ago|reply
The worst part about this is the last sentence that any students found criticizing the school on social media will face disciplinary measures. I’m aghast.
[+] pxeboot|5 years ago|reply
I am surprised the districts lawyers and insurers are okay with this. Surly there will be lawsuits over this for years once students and teachers start getting sick.
[+] Consultant32452|5 years ago|reply
The CDC has recommended schools reopen. I'm not suggesting that's a good recommendation or a bad one. But when the CDC and/or state health board says you can open, you can open. This is the government version of regulatory capture.
[+] testfoobar|5 years ago|reply
Given the range of incubation times and symptomatic vs non-symptomatic carriers, how would you prove that someone caught the infection at location X?
[+] mrguyorama|5 years ago|reply
How can you possibly believe this is the right thing to do? I just don't understand
[+] mherdeg|5 years ago|reply
The article quotes someone who believes this is the right thing to do and explains their perspective. This isn't the only view (nor the one endorsed by the physicians I know) but it's worth understanding in order to understand the public health trajectory of the next few years:

> Steven, a North Paulding student who asked that only his middle name be used, said he felt safe going to school without a mask. Most of the hallways he encountered, he said, were far less crowded than in the one in the photograph. And the virus itself, he said, didn’t seem like “much of a problem” in Paulding County.

> “I’ve only known three people to get it, other than the football players, obviously,” Steven said. “If I get it, I get it. I believe that’s what most people in my area's ideology is — if we get it, we get it.”

> Steven said he didn’t want to let worries about spreading the virus to his family control his life.

> “Most of my family, including my grandparents, think the same as well,” he said. “We just go on about our business and keep it out of our mind.”

[+] doorstar|5 years ago|reply
Our schools are going virtual when they reopen but there are plenty of parents who object. Several reasons come up

- Virtual learning did not work at the end of last year, and most parents think it's unlikely to work this year. I'll wait and see, but I'm also pessimistic about virtual learning for kids 5-18. It's just not engaging in that age range.

- Related, families with two working parents are going to be very limited in their ability to work with their kid, e.g., make sure they are attending/paying attention in their zoom meetings, keep track of their assignments and make sure they are getting worked on, really sit and help with challenging projects and assignments.

- Along the same lines, families with two parents who are or will be working outside the home are really in a bind.

- Finally, there is continuing uncertainty about kids getting/transmitting Covid to the point where some people feel it's worth the risk. There is also a persistent group of parents who think this is all overwrought - they believe otherwise healthy kids and adults under the age of 60 are so are just unlikely to get very sick from Covid, certainly not more than any other virus.

There's a wide range of feelings. I don't think the schools should open, but I'm also quietly prepared for this to be a lost educational year for my kids.

[+] untog|5 years ago|reply
Schools in the US are, as a general rule, chronically underfunded. If they had money they could have erected tents outside in playing fields and car parks to allow teaching while socially distant.

But slashing school budgets has been a popular political hobby for decades now and requests for emergency funding have fallen on deaf ears. So here we are.

[+] ba2plus|5 years ago|reply
Wall Street has decreed that capitalism must go on at all costs. That requires workers to show up to work. That requires that workers don't need stay home to watch kids. And that requires that kids not be at home during business hours.

Few believe that this is the right thing to do. Powerful businesspeople believe it's the profitable thing to do. So, here we are.

[+] LocalH|5 years ago|reply
Politicians with their heads up their asses, pandering to their voter base. This nation needs some new political thought to really take hold. Both conservatives and liberals are massive echo chambers, and people are so invested in the duality that they will vote for an absolute shitbag just to keep a different absolute shitbag out of office.
[+] jfengel|5 years ago|reply
Because American identity is deeply bound up in the idea that you have to work to be virtuous. If you're not at work, you're lazy, and lazy people literally don't deserve to live.

Our schools are both warehouses for young people, so that their parents can work, and training grounds so that they can be prepared to work themselves. If the schools are closed, their parents can't work.

That causes an enormous ripple effect. If some people can't work, then they don't have money, causing other people to lose their own jobs. That cascades through the system, tearing down not just the economy, but the American sense of self. If we're not at work, who are we?

The US sees itself as the hardest-working, most virtuous nation in the world. God literally "shed his grace" on us. We deserve to be the richest because we're the best. Closing the schools not only shuts down our vaunted advantage, but admits that we can be beaten. We imagine ourselves able to solve crises through hard work and superior intellect, and if we can't, we are failures.

At this point, it has become a matter of self-division as well. We've divided ourselves along lines that aren't even really ideological any more. The right wing has defined itself as opposed to "leftists", so anything the left proposes must be bad. If they want to wear masks and close down schools, then we will ban masks and open schools. It didn't even pass through a cost-benefit calculation, or at best one defined retroactively to justify the conclusion.

Looked at this way, it seems pretty inevitable that opening the schools was going to happen, at least in places like Georgia that fall on the one side of that divide I mentioned.

[+] throwaway0a5e|5 years ago|reply
It all comes down to who the people making these decisions are trying to please. The elected officials (assuming they're at least sort of doing their job) are acting on what they think will please the most voters. The net difference in the number of constituents hate this option, the next option, and every other feasible option for the school year is likely very small. This is what the tyranny of the majority looks like.

But of course thinking about the incentives and mechanisms that lead to this outcome is uncomfortable and clutching our pearls is comfortable and easy so what we'll do is a forgone conclusion.

Edit: I'm personally no fan of the policy the school chose but asinine or not they didn't choose it for no reason and it's worth exploring what lead to the people making the decisions to choose what they chose.

Edit2: Some of you would do well to read only the words I am writing here and not assume any unwritten meaning or motivation. I am specifically trying to avoid debating whether this particular instance of public policy is good/bad/right/wrong and some of you seem to be very eager to do just that.

[+] tunesmith|5 years ago|reply
"Well, I don't want you to go to school, but the school board said you might be suspended or expelled, so I guess you should go to school..."

I don't have kids that go to school, so what really happens if you keep your kids out of school? What can the school really do to you or your kid?

[+] deelowe|5 years ago|reply
Expel you and cause you to miss a grade. They can also place your kids into a remedial program which means they'll go to schools which are designated for problem children when they return. In addition the learning environment being worse, those schools can be pretty far out of the way for parents. Also, if you're expelled, you won't get to take the state/federally mandated tests. I'm not sure of the impact of this, but I think it can be pretty bad.
[+] anonAndOn|5 years ago|reply
Severely degrade or hinder your future earning prospects? Not a lot of kids are motivated self-learners and require substantial instruction and support to achieve their learning potential. Of course, some parents deliberately choose alternative paths for their children for myriad reasons, but for many families public schools are the path to education and development.
[+] smichel17|5 years ago|reply
If the parent is on board with the kid staying home, they could call the kid in sick, right?
[+] chrisseaton|5 years ago|reply
I don't know anything about American term dates - but isn't it the middle of summer? Did they restart early or delay breaking up?
[+] steverb|5 years ago|reply
A lot of US schools start in early - mid august and go through late May to early June. It varies by locality though.
[+] techlaw|5 years ago|reply
This is their regular schedule. The Fall semester usually begins in early-to-mid August in GA depending on the school district.

This year some districts are delaying opening; some offering virtual as an option; some offering virtual-only.

[+] newacct583|5 years ago|reply
OK, so to be completely objective here: the crowd in that photo isn't really the problem per se. That's a transient crowd between classes, the kids are walking past each other quickly and then disengaging after a minute or two as they enter their next class. That's not a known high risk situation, existing superspreader events almost exclusively tend to be more static: restaurants, cruise ships, theaters/arenas, that sort of thing: places where people are near an infected person and stay there for a bit.

The thing to worry about with school openings is the classroom, not the hallway. The fact that this hall is so packed tells me that the classes are probably at capacity too. That's worrisome for sure.

And it's a bad, bad state for this to be happening. GA continues to have one of the worst infection rates in the country, and contra others (AZ and CA) it still seems to be at its second-wave peak and hasn't dropped much yet:

https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states...

[+] JoshTko|5 years ago|reply
How is this all that different from a cruise ship? Schools are designed to rotate kids to several classes throughout the day ensuring that any sick child will sit in class with several different groups.
[+] fedorareis|5 years ago|reply
I would say you are right the classrooms are more worrisome, especially since I doubt the desks are being wiped down between students.

I would say that the hallway is still worrying. It isn’t just students walking past each other. I’m sure they are bumping into and brushing up against each other. In my experience it is hard to avoid when you are rushing to your next class in a crowded hallway.

[+] nicoburns|5 years ago|reply
Hmm... only takes one sick kid not wearing a mask to sneeze and I'll bet a fair few other kids get sick.
[+] moistly|5 years ago|reply
1) Teach your child to read (basic phonetics and sight words).

2) Encourage/have them read a lot of different stuff.

3) Have them explain what they’re reading.

4) When possible, support them in applying what they learn.

[+] beepboopbeep|5 years ago|reply
None of this is rational or remotely within the realm of objective reality. The people making these decisions should be liable for gross negligence and manslaughter should it come to it. There is no excuse for sending kids to school during a pandemic. Absolutely absurd.
[+] Consultant32452|5 years ago|reply
I agree with you that we should not force schools to open, nor should we force teachers or students to return.

I'm interested, however, in your thoughts on the second and third order effects of school and economic shutdowns? One article I read recently suggested there will be an additional 500k deaths in India due to TB because lockdowns are preventing people from getting treatment. An additional 10k children will starve to death worldwide per month due to second and third order effects from people not buying/using regular old crap from the store. We've also seen suicides and drug overdoses skyrocket in the United States. There's a lot going on and there appear to only be bad options on the table. Are there other things you're aware of, that you're taking into consideration?

[+] jimmaswell|5 years ago|reply
There are good arguments - development of the kids, transmission from young kids being previously unheard of and now found to still be less likely than from adults, etc. What's absurd is taking such a knee-jerk absolutist stance on a complex issue.
[+] commandlinefan|5 years ago|reply
But all of those kids were at the same risk for the regular seasonal flu, which is just about as dangerous to their age group, at this same time last year. And will be at this same time next year, even if they cure COVID-19 completely. If your standard for opening a school is "nobody can get sick", you can never open a school.
[+] ryandrake|5 years ago|reply
I wonder if any of the politicians who were part of the decision to re-open schools, from the governor down to the school board members, would be willing to sit in that hallway unmasked for a day. Nope, I bet they made the decisions over Zoom calls, safely tucked away in their homes.
[+] zentiggr|5 years ago|reply
Or, since they know some staff are infected, maybe call an all-hands mandatory staff and board meeting to discuss how to handle new cases... make it an all day meeting, in the smallest conference room taht could hold the number of people.

Plenty of water, no kleenex.

That's how it's done, right?

[+] mnm1|5 years ago|reply
This reopening is criminal. The DA should charge the superintendent with endangering child welfare and I'm sure they can think of a dozen other types of charges times for a few hundred student victims they could bring on. Well at least now we know that even "think of the children" was always a lie in our culture. The culture does not care if children die unnecessarily.