Always ask for proof of the debt before paying. If they can't provide proof, you can contest it on your credit report and you don't have to pay.
I keep having debt collectors call me for a fake debt. I've been an AT&T customer for 25 years. About a decade ago I upgraded my broadband, and instead of upgrading my account they closed my old one and opened a new one. I got a final bill on the old one and that was that.
About two years later I got a debt collector trying to collect on the old account. At first I thought it might be legit, maybe I missed the final bill. So I asked for a copy of the records. They stopped calling.
A couple years later a new debt collector called on the same debt. Again I asked for proof, again they stopped calling.
I think my name was finally deleted from the spreadsheets they pass around, but who knows. Maybe one day someone will call again.
In most states, this alleged debt would be outside the statute of limitations for contract originated debt (usually 6 years from day of default). Meaning that, unless you pay any amount to them, it is no longer a debt that can be pursued through legal channels.
With any debt collector or buyer, per FDCPA, they must stop calling if you notify them. Best way to do this is by a certified letter stating your name, your phone numbers, and that it is not permitted to call you regarding this alleged debt. Offenses here can net you a bounty in court, but worth noting most folks with valid debts, can't afford to fight the onslaught of robocalls from spoofed numbers, as is all too common in the trade
Requesting validity of a debt is also covered under FDCPA, but with some general stipulations. Legally, a collector or debt buyer is required to provide validation in the 30 days after the initial notification to you if requested in writing. Most will still send documentation out of this window if they have it, but it becomes less transparent under your civil protections for them to be mandated to do so.
Obligatory IANAL, but if you find yourself in a similar position here, doing a few minutes of research on your protections and common "gotchas" of dealing with these outfits is incredibly valuable.
This is the very best advise when dealing with debt collectors.
There are several unscrupulous debt collectors/scammers that use public information to try and frighten people into paying off non-existent debt or debt that is way beyond the statute of limitations to be sued over.
But they are very convincing and claim that they will be sending a court summons (that never arrives)
My elderly neighbor got taken for several hundreds of dollars by one of these Scumbags until I found out what was happening.
And just as the other commenter had said, the debt collector never sent proof of the debt.
Just more threats.
Reminds me of a time I had already paid a hospital bill a few years back. About a year later some guy calls about another $1000+ I owe. "Ok, I paid it, but send an itemized bill," I said as I was curious as to what it was.
Got a plain paper print-out in the mail with "medical services ----- 1,234.56." He called again I said, "you're gonna have to do better than that. He never called again, it was BS. Wonder how he even got my details?
That’s ATT for you. They have the worst billing systems that I know of.
Back when they were pushing UVerse they wanted to combine billing with their other services. For what ever reason they weren’t combined to begin with.
Well when you did that you had to get both on the same cycle. UVerse I believe was post paid at the time. You needed to pre-pay as their other services. Maybe it was the other way around, don’t remember. Either way you are stuck with 2 months of UVerse plus your other services when you combine it. So a large bill.
Well here comes the fun part, I had that service for maybe a year. I canceled it and to my surprise nobody seemed to remember that I had an extra month I already paid for. The system didn’t seem to account for it.
I called numerous times and talked to quite a few different people. I ended up getting about 700 in credits because I was able to walk people through the billing who were able to see what was going on.
I thought about taking this to a few attorneys I know since this had to have impacted a ton a people. Never got around it.
I tell them I’m recording this call. They usually hang up. I had one say, “sir, it’s illegal to record this call. And I’ll have to hang up.” Never heard from them again. Don’t even know what the debt was for.
The only debts I owe are a student loan and a mortgage.
Great advice. Honestly, things like this are half the reason I don't pick up the phone any more if I don't recognize the number. I used to enable the feature that sent all unrecognized numbers to voicemail, but found this was too aggressive for occasional calls (delivery drivers, etc). Probably 4 out of 5 of the calls I used to get were either scams or robocall telemarketing.
I got that from an old cellphone company too that was acquired by by Verizon a long time ago.
I half suspect it was a scam actually. Like the other company bought them and just decided "naw let's say these people didn't cancel, lets see what we can get".
I told them I'd never pay them and so on ... they just quit, never showed up on credit report either...
I always tell them that I dispute the charges and that they should sue me if they have proof and most importantly I tell them to never contact me again or I will sue
Curious how much is attributed to the continued adoption of pay-for-delete (PFD) by these debt buyers/factoring/collection agencies.
I noticed the trend start in 2018. Midland was one of the first to adopt it, then PRA a few months later.
For those unaware, paying a collection account was of little to not benefit for improving your credit score. The negative tradeline(s) would still be present for the typically 7 years (less, depending on type of debt and state in some cases).
Put another way, once you were in debt, there was little to no incentive beyond traditional "morals" that these folks would play to for you to pay. That, and legal action, which is still a highly effective source of revenue for these outfits.
Most that are sued either ignore legal service, aren't aware of service by publication in obscure notice ads, or don't show up for the designated day in court, awarding a default judgment to the collector. From there, they can garnish, seize, and follow your ass for years, in most cases for a debt they paid pennies on the dollar for in an excel document auction of sorts.
In the last few years, most of the debt buyers and collection agencies will delete the negative tradeline when you settle for less or pay in full the amount owed. This was a previously a "one in a hundred" chance you'd see discussed ad nauseum on debtor boards; that is, including a pay-for-delete stipulation in settlement negotiations.
If you're in debt, read up on your rights, and how to play the game with these folks. Whether you can pay it easily or not, knowledge in the processes is incredibly valuable.
That was the primary reason I paid off a collection in a lump sum a month ago (the expected significant credit repair from a delete). Sure getting a 1200 dollar stimulus check made it a lot easier to drop a thousand in one go, but if pra wasn't pay for delete I would have saved that in my emergency fund, and either never paid since my credit was already damaged or paid some small monthly payment for the next two years (to not get sued).
I suppose the thing to know would be how many people are just paying because they have extra money and just assume paying it consigns it to Oblivion.
Looks like you gave a lot of information but I'm not getting. Firstly, what is pay for delete? And what are you saying? That you should pay the collectors or that you shouldn't? And I didn't get the 1-in-100 part either. Completely lost!
The situation with debt for average Americans is criminal.
Why lifes and mental health are being ruined, while Fed is just pumping gazillion of free money into corporations?
Not taking any debt is the best decision the person can make in their lifetime. In some cases it is OK to do it, when buying a house or using debt for business purpose from non institutional lender: friends, family etc.
Companies should just write it off. It is just money.
Unfortunately, in the US, simply not taking debt (minimally a credit card and/or car loans) means that you can be negatively affected in life. Most places won't report that you've been paying your electric bill or rent on time - they'll only report negatives if they hit a threshhold or if you, say, forget a final bill.
Which means that a responsible person, who simply lives within their means and pays bills on time, buying used cars and such, winds up with no credit history. This means that folks might deny an apartment or that you'll pay a higher interest rate on a car loan. You might not get a loan for housing until you build up credit.
Credit was an issue for women specifically at one time because most bills were in their spouse's name - and joint bank accounts were usually "owned" by the husband, so that history wasn't working towards the woman.
I'm not sure if medical debt still counts towards credit scores or not: All you used to need for negative marks was to have an accident and be poor. (I have an uncle that had bankruptcy because of it: He wound up with a 250,000 hospital bill. He only made 30k before and could no longer perform his job)
It is a really crappy system, and I truly wish it were geared more towards folks simply being responsible and living within their means. Or at least minimally, require more of the positives be reported (so a hospital bill will never be negative unless that hospital also reports that folks paid on time).
This is probably the worst time to be paying off old debts. I think that very shortly the courts are going to be so overwhelmed with debt cases that it’s going to take years to clear the backlog. For people living paycheck to paycheck your basically judgement-proof anyway.
As long as you pay your income tax you have noting to worry about. If you owe tax then it’s completely different story.
It was similar during the last recession. I was underwater on my house and two other houses. With everyone else walking away it way the perfect time to do strategic defaults...
1. Rental property one - walked away. The bank sold it for $70K less than was owed. I payed $0
2. Rental property two - owed $130K. Did a short sale for $30K. I paid $1K
3. My own house. Walked away. It was sold for $70K less than I owed. They threaten to sue me. I told them that they could either sue me and I would file for bankruptcy or I could get 1/4 of what I owed from my 401K. They couldn’t touch my 401K in a lawsuit.
3 years to the day after the foreclosure, I got an FHA loan for 3.5% loan for a new house.
When companies know that people have extra cash, they go after that cash. Whether it's a stimulus check or UBI, companies are not moral beings, they are profit driven machines.
When there were talks about $1200 Stimulas Check, the first one, my Car Loan Bank sent series of emails saying We Care For You in this Difficult Times, so we are informing you You might be eligible for $1200 check, Please make sure you are on top of Car Loan Payments.
Collecting debts is a moral action though, isn't it? It's part of the system that keeps society working for everyone.
I've had people owe me money. It's not pleasant when you know you've basically given money to them for free while they can laugh in your face. Sometimes I've got it back via debt collectors. It's a good thing.
Maybe you don't like predatory lending, but that's not the same as trying to help out somebody who's having hard times then getting ripped off by them. Not all debtors are some kind of helpless victim of life's unfairness. Often they're just selfish bastards trying to take advantage of whoever they can.
Too late. Those debts are already there, and there is nothing to stop them from piling up new debts in the years ahead. Whether or not uncle sam sends money to debt collectors doesn't change the root problem (the sickening financial position many people find themselves in to start with).
$600/week is $30K/year annualized. Minimum wage ranges as low as $240/week depending on the State, so for many coming from those jobs this has been a bumper couple of months.
600 + state unemployment can easily crack $1000 a week, that is double what most retail workers are making. It is boggling to me that grocery clerks are even showing up. Constant exposure to corona for 2k a month or sit at home for 4K? I would definitely be figuring out any way I could to get fired.
I spend more than that on rent, but between my wife and I, we could easily cover all expenses on $600/week each. If I left the California coast, I wouldn't want for anything material on this budget, and I think I could maintain 2k/month of savings beyween the two of us while covering all other expenses.
And as I understand it, the 600/WK is on top of other normal payments.
A great startup that I've been telling folks about is Seth Goldstein's Spartacus, which does (as far as I've experienced) a great job of removing your addresses from the internet. [1]
Can you elaborate on that? Because the site for Spartacus sure doesn't. I couldn't find any explanation of their "data broker deletion" detailed enough for me to want to give them money.
There is a real opportunity for society to learn a lasting lesson here, mainly how relatively little is gained for the economy from extra cash (tax cuts) to the already flush.
Just look at how much benefit the economy is getting from a relatively modest boost to the lowest incomes, which gets spent immediately or goes to reducing crippling debt, versus tax breaks and subsidies for the wealthy, which get plowed into asset bubbles and expensive wine.
No, no. Those wealthy receiving the tax breaks expand their companies which requires hiring more people. /s
The recent tax forgiveness that allowed all of those corps to bring their offshore money home proved your statement correct and the obvious falsity of the trickle down theory. The corps used the incoming money for bonuses, stock buy backs, etc. The effect it had on the lower income tiers of society was barely even noticed.
[+] [-] jedberg|5 years ago|reply
I keep having debt collectors call me for a fake debt. I've been an AT&T customer for 25 years. About a decade ago I upgraded my broadband, and instead of upgrading my account they closed my old one and opened a new one. I got a final bill on the old one and that was that.
About two years later I got a debt collector trying to collect on the old account. At first I thought it might be legit, maybe I missed the final bill. So I asked for a copy of the records. They stopped calling.
A couple years later a new debt collector called on the same debt. Again I asked for proof, again they stopped calling.
I think my name was finally deleted from the spreadsheets they pass around, but who knows. Maybe one day someone will call again.
[+] [-] awslattery|5 years ago|reply
With any debt collector or buyer, per FDCPA, they must stop calling if you notify them. Best way to do this is by a certified letter stating your name, your phone numbers, and that it is not permitted to call you regarding this alleged debt. Offenses here can net you a bounty in court, but worth noting most folks with valid debts, can't afford to fight the onslaught of robocalls from spoofed numbers, as is all too common in the trade
Requesting validity of a debt is also covered under FDCPA, but with some general stipulations. Legally, a collector or debt buyer is required to provide validation in the 30 days after the initial notification to you if requested in writing. Most will still send documentation out of this window if they have it, but it becomes less transparent under your civil protections for them to be mandated to do so.
Obligatory IANAL, but if you find yourself in a similar position here, doing a few minutes of research on your protections and common "gotchas" of dealing with these outfits is incredibly valuable.
[+] [-] sloshnmosh|5 years ago|reply
There are several unscrupulous debt collectors/scammers that use public information to try and frighten people into paying off non-existent debt or debt that is way beyond the statute of limitations to be sued over.
But they are very convincing and claim that they will be sending a court summons (that never arrives)
My elderly neighbor got taken for several hundreds of dollars by one of these Scumbags until I found out what was happening.
And just as the other commenter had said, the debt collector never sent proof of the debt. Just more threats.
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|5 years ago|reply
Got a plain paper print-out in the mail with "medical services ----- 1,234.56." He called again I said, "you're gonna have to do better than that. He never called again, it was BS. Wonder how he even got my details?
[+] [-] janesvilleseo|5 years ago|reply
Back when they were pushing UVerse they wanted to combine billing with their other services. For what ever reason they weren’t combined to begin with.
Well when you did that you had to get both on the same cycle. UVerse I believe was post paid at the time. You needed to pre-pay as their other services. Maybe it was the other way around, don’t remember. Either way you are stuck with 2 months of UVerse plus your other services when you combine it. So a large bill.
Well here comes the fun part, I had that service for maybe a year. I canceled it and to my surprise nobody seemed to remember that I had an extra month I already paid for. The system didn’t seem to account for it.
I called numerous times and talked to quite a few different people. I ended up getting about 700 in credits because I was able to walk people through the billing who were able to see what was going on.
I thought about taking this to a few attorneys I know since this had to have impacted a ton a people. Never got around it.
[+] [-] yardie|5 years ago|reply
The only debts I owe are a student loan and a mortgage.
[+] [-] austinl|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duxup|5 years ago|reply
I half suspect it was a scam actually. Like the other company bought them and just decided "naw let's say these people didn't cancel, lets see what we can get".
I told them I'd never pay them and so on ... they just quit, never showed up on credit report either...
[+] [-] bob33212|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] omginternets|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] awslattery|5 years ago|reply
I noticed the trend start in 2018. Midland was one of the first to adopt it, then PRA a few months later.
For those unaware, paying a collection account was of little to not benefit for improving your credit score. The negative tradeline(s) would still be present for the typically 7 years (less, depending on type of debt and state in some cases).
Put another way, once you were in debt, there was little to no incentive beyond traditional "morals" that these folks would play to for you to pay. That, and legal action, which is still a highly effective source of revenue for these outfits.
Most that are sued either ignore legal service, aren't aware of service by publication in obscure notice ads, or don't show up for the designated day in court, awarding a default judgment to the collector. From there, they can garnish, seize, and follow your ass for years, in most cases for a debt they paid pennies on the dollar for in an excel document auction of sorts.
In the last few years, most of the debt buyers and collection agencies will delete the negative tradeline when you settle for less or pay in full the amount owed. This was a previously a "one in a hundred" chance you'd see discussed ad nauseum on debtor boards; that is, including a pay-for-delete stipulation in settlement negotiations.
If you're in debt, read up on your rights, and how to play the game with these folks. Whether you can pay it easily or not, knowledge in the processes is incredibly valuable.
[+] [-] Galaxity|5 years ago|reply
I suppose the thing to know would be how many people are just paying because they have extra money and just assume paying it consigns it to Oblivion.
[+] [-] ramraj07|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] heavenlyblue|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timavr|5 years ago|reply
Why lifes and mental health are being ruined, while Fed is just pumping gazillion of free money into corporations?
Not taking any debt is the best decision the person can make in their lifetime. In some cases it is OK to do it, when buying a house or using debt for business purpose from non institutional lender: friends, family etc.
Companies should just write it off. It is just money.
[+] [-] Broken_Hippo|5 years ago|reply
Which means that a responsible person, who simply lives within their means and pays bills on time, buying used cars and such, winds up with no credit history. This means that folks might deny an apartment or that you'll pay a higher interest rate on a car loan. You might not get a loan for housing until you build up credit.
Credit was an issue for women specifically at one time because most bills were in their spouse's name - and joint bank accounts were usually "owned" by the husband, so that history wasn't working towards the woman.
I'm not sure if medical debt still counts towards credit scores or not: All you used to need for negative marks was to have an accident and be poor. (I have an uncle that had bankruptcy because of it: He wound up with a 250,000 hospital bill. He only made 30k before and could no longer perform his job)
It is a really crappy system, and I truly wish it were geared more towards folks simply being responsible and living within their means. Or at least minimally, require more of the positives be reported (so a hospital bill will never be negative unless that hospital also reports that folks paid on time).
[+] [-] ahmedm87|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] GarrisonPrime|5 years ago|reply
Why do you think the government is handing money over to corporations? Hint: It's not just to give their big business friends some moolah.
[+] [-] zxcvbn4038|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Spooky23|5 years ago|reply
Banks know it — Citi and Chase pretty much stopped cheap balance transfers in April for most customers.
[+] [-] scarface74|5 years ago|reply
1. Rental property one - walked away. The bank sold it for $70K less than was owed. I payed $0
2. Rental property two - owed $130K. Did a short sale for $30K. I paid $1K
3. My own house. Walked away. It was sold for $70K less than I owed. They threaten to sue me. I told them that they could either sue me and I would file for bankruptcy or I could get 1/4 of what I owed from my 401K. They couldn’t touch my 401K in a lawsuit.
3 years to the day after the foreclosure, I got an FHA loan for 3.5% loan for a new house.
[+] [-] trhway|5 years ago|reply
In Santa Clara county 40K+ of possible evictions are coming.
[+] [-] Simulacra|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davchana|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rayiner|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TwoBit|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lopmotr|5 years ago|reply
I've had people owe me money. It's not pleasant when you know you've basically given money to them for free while they can laugh in your face. Sometimes I've got it back via debt collectors. It's a good thing.
Maybe you don't like predatory lending, but that's not the same as trying to help out somebody who's having hard times then getting ripped off by them. Not all debtors are some kind of helpless victim of life's unfairness. Often they're just selfish bastards trying to take advantage of whoever they can.
[+] [-] loktarogar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WrtCdEvrydy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mjparrott|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] monadic2|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] newfriend|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haram_masala|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koolba|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] closeparen|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] refurb|5 years ago|reply
"Hey, I'm getting an extra $30k per year!"
"That's it? That's nothing."
[+] [-] ericmcer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tbihl|5 years ago|reply
I spend more than that on rent, but between my wife and I, we could easily cover all expenses on $600/week each. If I left the California coast, I wouldn't want for anything material on this budget, and I think I could maintain 2k/month of savings beyween the two of us while covering all other expenses.
And as I understand it, the 600/WK is on top of other normal payments.
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] malchow|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://spartacus.com
[+] [-] rideontime|5 years ago|reply
e: Oh, cool, they're going to solve the problem with blockchain. Hard pass. https://cdn.spartacus.com/white-papers/fiduciarydatabanking....
[+] [-] TwoBit|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tempsy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hotpockets|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fallingfrog|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dylan604|5 years ago|reply
The recent tax forgiveness that allowed all of those corps to bring their offshore money home proved your statement correct and the obvious falsity of the trickle down theory. The corps used the incoming money for bonuses, stock buy backs, etc. The effect it had on the lower income tiers of society was barely even noticed.
[+] [-] lupire|5 years ago|reply