[ECA_stax]

>Politically-correct witch-hunt is killing free speech

I have yet to see an example of this, even though people complain about it all the time. I've only seen it "kill" careers of people who consistently spout hateful views of women, LGBTQIAA2S+, and minorities. If someone could provide me an example of "PoliTicAllY COrRecT cuLtUrE" killing someone who doesn't fall into this criteria, I'd be happy to hear examples :)

[drak0n1c]

This week in Seattle, a popular weatherman on local NPR radio was fired for a post on his personal blog, where he criticized violent rioters and compared the chilling effects of their targeted property damage to historical examples, such as Kristallnacht.

He has no record of "hateful views of women, LGBTQIAA2S+, and minorities" and the post itself did not contain such either.

The blog post in question: https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/08/seattle-city-in-fear-...

[mef]

fwiw a quick googling of this guy shows that he’s had his weather segments cancelled before on other networks, and by his own admission it’s because he veers off topic from weather and into controversy (E.g. climate change denial)

[AndrewDucker]

Frankly, comparing anything to Kristallnacht which isn't actually related to the deliberate destruction of a people is offensive.

[influx]

What are your thoughts on this: “ David Shor, an analyst at Democratic polling firm Civis Analytics, tweeted a study that concluded, "race riots reduced Democratic vote share."

That study was probably accurate. Obviously, rioting alienates voters.

But the mob attacked Shor. "Come get your boy," one tweeted.

His bosses did. Even though Shor issued a groveling apology, he was fired.”

[eesmith]

FWIW, here are my thoughts.

1) What is a "race riot"?

Definitions are important. Should we call it the Tulsa Massacre or the Tulsa Race Riot? And does the choice of term reflect your view?

2) Are there any race riots going on now? Which events are race riots and which are not?

My reading of the history of the topic is that "race riot" was the term used by whites to describe resistance by minorities to white oppression, as in the Tulsa example above.

3) Why did Shor decide to characterize the linked-to paper http://www.omarwasow.com/Protests_on_Voting.pdf as providing information on "race riot"s?

The referenced paper uses the term "race riot" twice, both when referencing the works of other people.

Instead, it uses the description "black-led protests" and proposes that "nonviolent activism, particularly when met with state or vigilante repression, drove media coverage, framing, Congressional speech and public opinion on civil rights." which it juxtaposes with "Protester-initiated violence".

If we accept the narrative that the violence of many of the current protests are the results of state-initiated repression, then do those protests fall in the first category or the second? Or neither, in which case the study isn't relevant.

Note that if we use the definition of "Protester-initiated violence" then if we call it the Tulsa Race Riot then it's clearly a race riot initiated by white protestors. (One of many, I'll add.)

Is the implication that all black-lead protests with protester-initiated violence should be characterized as a "race riot"?

4) You write "rioting alienates voters".

Is that really true?

I assume that white-lead protests with protester-initiated violence against non-whites are also race riots. Do you agree?

Did the Tulsa Massacre/"Race Riot" alienate voters against the protesting whites? Did the Zoot Suit Riots alienate voters against Navy sailors?

I .. don't think they did. In fact, I think it was quite the opposite.

So I don't think your "obviously" is all that correct a summary.

5) How is the term "killing free speech" at all relevant?

Over and over I see "cancel culture" applied to famous or influential people who have a loss of prestige based on what they wrote or said, but who are NOT CANCELED in any meaningful sense. Eg, at https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/david-shor-cancel-cu... I read that "Shor is still consulting in Democratic politics, but he is no longer working for a firm that restricts his freedom to publicly opine."

ECA_stax pointed out the hyperbole in using the term "kill". How do you get from "still consulting in Democratic politics" to "killed", or from "must conform to an employer's policies" to "killing free speech"?

[fileyfood]

Former Carnegie Mellon student here. A couple students had a private argument over chat (facebook messenger) in which one student said some things that were not politically correct. The other student screenshot-ed the messages and posted them in the largest facebook group, with over 10k members. The post was heavily upvoted, and the student who made the non-politically correct comments received death threats and hundreds of angry messages. The student wrote a long apology to the community for their behavior and a planned "re-education" program they were undertaking to be better educated.

[ericmcer]

Just the day to day life of being a white male tech worker in the bay area? This is definitely not an area where alternative views are welcomed, it is either conform or be ostracized.

If the J.K. Rowling thing came up in a group setting, and you stated one of the central points of this article: that there are biological differences between the sexes, people would slowly back away from you. People who have known you for a long time would throw you to the wolves rather than get taken along with you. Is that your idea of free speech?

[happytoexplain]

How is one canceled day-to-day? Unless the definition is extending to include any disagreement?

[justchilly]

The article gives examples and links to other articles with more examples.

Among other I see it mentions JK Rowling and Bret Weinstein. I don't know enough about this to opine on what they've said, but would you categorize them as people who "constantly spout hateful views of women, LGBTQIAA2S+, and minorities"?

[photokandy]

When it comes to JK Rowling, absolutely. She's pretty firmly in TERF territory, and holds pretty damaging views when it comes to those of us who are trans/gender non-conforming.

[vorpalhex]

Uhlig as a recent example, Rowling which is raised in the article. This is trivial to name more examples.

[Tiktaalik]

You can't cancel a billionaire

[cannaceo]

Terry Crews is the most popular example that comes to mind.

Larry Summers is more controversial but same result.

[emerged]

I literally don't believe you can honestly not be aware of examples. To the extent that I suspect you posted this in order to gather all the low hanging fruit. Fair enough!

[happytoexplain]

It's easy and lazy to attack the parent like this. I generally agree with them. I feel like the number of cases of "unjustly canceled" are extremely few - perhaps zero to two (I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I recall feeling that way). There are of course many I'd consider arguable, however. The point is, your attack is unreasonable.

[smoe]

I once almost got killed joking that LGBTQIAA2S+ looks more like a password than an initialism ...

But I don't really care personally about any specific words so that is not where I see the problem.

What I'm worried about is when entire topics become taboo and impossible to discuss. I don't think this is specific to "PC culture", its just different topics that get avoided than in other in-groups.

As an example, During the "European refugee crisis", even as a leftist, in favor of letting the people in, it has been neigh impossible to discuss any potential problems without getting called or at least suspected a Nazi or similar.

[emteycz]

> LGBTQIAA2S+

Not sure if you're mocking the LGBT group or what? Is that a real thing now? Googling it gives me only a (seemingly) mocking Urban Dictionary entry.

[Yetanfou]

You're using the wrong search engine, I get loads of examples:

https://queerevents.ca/events/toronto/social/2020-02-08/lgbt...

http://internationalstudentconnect.org/lgbtqiaa2s

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tees-46418045

etc.

I've seen longer versions of the same in use like LGGBDTTTIQQAAP, this is used for some 'inclusiveness training' by the Canadian Elementary Teachers Federation (ETFO) of Ontario, it supposedly stands for Lesbian, Gay, Genderqueer, Bisexual, Demisexual, Transgender, Transsexual, Twospirit, Intersex, Queer, Questioning, Asexual, Allies, Pansexual and Polyamorous.

[ECA_stax]

please don't ever assume bad faith on this site. I'm from Canada, so the 2S throws off a lot of Americans. 2S is two-spirited and comes from Indigenous culture.

[linkmotif]

Example: my life. My sister is woke: I can't really say what I think around her. Lots of my "friends" are woke: can't really talk to them.

And mind you, my opinions aren't like of that guy who worked at Google and wrote "if women weren't bad at math, wouldn't they be working with computers?" or whatever that guy wrote. That's not my style of thinking.

But my style of thinking is definitely not "woke" and therefore many of my thoughts would easily be categorized as hate speech or something by woke people.

My vibe is the people who keep saying free speech these days isn't a problem are the same people who demand you only speak their orthodoxy. Always has, always will be.

[lgleason]

> "if women weren't bad at math, wouldn't they be working with computers?"

That is not what he said. Read the memo. That said I agree with the rest of your points.

[notmarkus]

Sounds like you're pigeonholing Damore (of Google Memo fame) the same way that you don't want to be. You should read the original memo, and not an opinionated summary of it, it's not long. You may find that you were sold a lie about it.

[briandear]

The NY Times hires Sarah Jeong while Roseanne Barr gets fired.

Sarah Jeong repeatedly made offensive and racist comments on her Twitter — unapologetically, while Roseanne triggered a national conniption fit.

And what the heck is LGBTQIAA2S+? We have initialed and labeled and divided people so much with this hyper-woke activism that civil rights activism has become a caricature. It’s like the whole world has gone full-blown Portlandia. And the whole crowd has gone so extreme that even disagreeing on economic theory gets you labeled an -ist.

JK Rowling was the target of cancellation after she expressed her opinion on sexuality. People literally can’t disagree anymore. Either toe the line, or get butchered by the Twitterari. JK Rowling isn’t even a conservative or even remotely right wing, but she is apparently not entitled to an opinion unless it’s perfectly in line. Ricky Gervais is another person that’s is constantly in hot water. He got tarred and feathered for daring to make a Bruce Jenner joke. Any disagreement or even harmless misstep results in outrage. Calm the f down people.

You literally can’t have a disagreement with anything “on the left” without facing the rapid wrath of the professionally offended. Even standup comics, where offending literally everyone is their job get “cancelled” because people can’t even laugh anymore. It must be a miserable life to be perpetually offended.

Interestingly, it’s ok and even encouraged to make fun of or spout hatred against “rednecks,” “hillbillies,” Christians, and in many circles, Jewish people. But make fun of a LGBTQIAA2S+ vegan Saudi woman and all hell will break lose.

It’s like Thought Police are real. Don’t like something being said? Then say your own thing. Or turn the damned channel. There is a reason many stand up comedians avoid college campuses these days; everyone is so delicate and offended that comedy is essentially a dead art. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1kVdHr7sR0o

I am not condoning “hate,” but “hate” has become a synonym with “disagree” or “doesn’t support.” If someone doesn’t like Obama, they are immediately a “racist,” but if someone doesn’t like Clarence Thomas, then suddenly it’s about “ideas” and not race. People that criticized Condi Rice weren’t called mysogynist, but criticize Hillary Clinton and you apparently “hate women.” Supporting Bret Kavanaugh makes you a woman hater, but supporting Bill Clinton gets a pass. And it’s because of politics, not any particular social enlightenment. It’s hypocrisy of the highest order. Biden should be cancelled after his recent claim that “Latinos are diverse, unlike the African-American community.” He really said that. Incredibly racist. Yet aside from some right wing ramblings, that comment has been ignored by the very people so readily looking to cancel people.

It’s a fact that the left is far more tolerated and protected while anyone who dares disagree is sent to the woodshed. As much as I detest Amy Schumer, I’m not calling for her to be banished, nor do I form noble sounding organizations dedicated to getting her “cancelled.” Organizations like Media Matters have made it their mission to cultivate outrage and attempt to sanitize any thoughts that might bruise their delicate sensibilities.

What a miserable time in which we live. When comics are fearful of playing a university, then you know we’ve done some serious shark jumping. Berkeley used to be a center of contrarian thought and free speech, but not it’s positively East German in their level of tolerance of dissenting opinions.

[s9w]

Still free speech if you don't like it