[qyv]

"I was only following orders."

Edit to add: If you are being asked to perform illegal or unethical acts as part of your employment, then perhaps termination is an ideal course of action? Unless of course your personal enrichment outweighs legalities or ethics in your worldview?

[paulryanrogers]

And I wasn't implying engineers should be entirely blameless. Everyone has a limited understanding of legal systems too complex for one person to fully grasp. And workers far below the level of decision makers should be judged according to evidence of their knowledge and responsibility. Likewise those who give orders should bear more responsibly.

All these "companies take on a life of their own" arguments sound a lot like executives priming the pump of potential jurors with excuses. If decision makers cannot bear responsibility because of a company size or organizational structure then we can make some sizes and structures illegal before they stumble/march into devastating incompetence.

[unishark]

> ...then we can make some sizes and structures illegal before they stumble/march into devastating incompetence.

Was with you until this part. Just hold them personally liable if someone gets hurt should they create an uncontrollable system and predictably fail to control it.

[dark_light]

If a person is skirting responsibility at the expense of a structure, it isn't he fault of the structure but the one skirting responsibility.

Structures can and should be changed in this case. But shouldn't be outlawed.

[drivingmenuts]

It may be fine in some countries, but saying that you’ll make some organization sizes and structures illegal, barring other criminal activity, smells like a violation of the freedom of association.