It seems the problem is not that _everyone_ needs a full 8, but that many people _assume_ they don’t need that much, even though they do.
I don’t sleep 8 every night: sometimes it’s longer, usually it’s more like 6, but either way I don’t use an alarm to wake up.
The key for me was to prioritize my sleep health by minimizing screen time before bed, going to bed consistently at the same time, and always leaving enough time to get 8 full hours if my body ends up wanting it.
I don’t _always_ need 8 hours, but it makes a huge difference when I do. And empirically, my well being—physical and mental—improves substantially if I am going out of my way to tend my sleep health.
I recently experimented with bed linen made by bamboo, but did not experience any big effect. Bamboo is supposed to regulate the temperature at night, but didn't seem able to on warm summer nights.
I've found sleep hygiene is a big part of it for me. If I'm on a screen all day and night, right up until bed, I will need 8-9 hours to feel well rested. If I'm screen-free for 2-3 hours before bed, after a night or two I am as rested on 7 hours. And this maintains for as long as I'm good about being screen-free (Kindle included but that's just me perhaps, or psychosomatic maybe). Unfortunately it's not always possible to be away from all screens for that long at the right time, and it seems pretty easy to mess it up for several days with one or two slip ups.
I wish I could sleep eight hours but I tend to get up regardless at the same time alarm or not. I do try to enforce an afternoon nap or just eyes closed time.
I know nothing about the viability but like others you just find what works for you. I do know when I don't have enough sleep, it is really easy - I am irritable
Having children took me from being able to sleep any time anywhere to having horrible sleep. One of my kids had an incredibly quiet voice in her first three months AND had a habit of spitting up copious amounts when we would put her in her crib. She would start crying and making choking noises but very quietly so I learned to be an incredibly light sleeper. She also would not sleep for the first month unless she was held (she got over it, it wasn’t a big thing, it wasn’t a medical problem, we checked), but it meant that I would stay up holding her and watching TV until 3am and then hand her off to someone else for the rest of the night, getting 4-5 hours of sleep. We sometimes had to keep lights on all night, sometimes TV on to keep adults caring for the kids from falling asleep themselves. It was brutal.
A part of it was the breast is best craze that has taken over parenting. I don’t disagree with it, but also some people just don’t produce enough milk to fully sustain a child and you need to supplement. When our kids were older my partner found out that her doctor actually noted that her breast tissue was likely to not produce sufficient quantities of milk on her medical chart, but failed to ever tell her. Hence feeding the kids 8-12 times a night, times two kids.
As a result years later I now can’t sleep for more than 5 hours a night without waking up and not being able to go back to sleep for an hour or two. I am slowly figuring out ways to combat this but I have yet to find a solution that lets me sleep a full 7-9 hours my body seems to actually need that doesn’t give me a headache or make my drowsy for the rest of the following day. Sometimes being human is a limitation.
Fuck all the people responding to with shameful posts about breast feeding being better. I did a fair amount of research into why, and the only conclusive thing a found was that breast feeding increased IQ by like 2 points. That is massively insignificant. IF breastfeeding adds antibodies (which is debated), then that is more than offset by just being careful to not let your child be exposed to the flu. The happiness of your child long term is by far the most important thing, and if being able to sleep better allows you to be more attentive to your child's emotional needs, then that will drastically out way 2 points of IQ. Most people telling you breast milk is better probably have no idea what it is like to feed a baby 8+ times a night and the emotional and physical toll associated with that. That type of situation can make you resent your baby. These people probably read about breast is best on some inlfuencer's blog or are parroting back some advice that their doctor gave them based on their particular situation. A mother who can't breastfeed for physical (or even emotional) reasons doesn't need an arsenal of people explaining to her why she's damaging her baby everywhere she looks to add on to the shame and inadequacy that she already feels. /rant
I have a buddy who did a few years in the military, in one of the more stressful specialties. He had an especially damaged sleep habit as well from this.
He went to some sort of "sleep therapist", I forget the exact nomenclature. Anyway, he was recommended a series of tips (from limit screen time to everything else you may see online). He found it did help. That sort of service may be worth looking into.
> In 2019, Fu and Ptacek discovered two more genes connected to natural short sleep, and they’ll soon submit a paper describing a fourth, providing even more evidence that functioning well on less sleep is a genetic trait.
Several years ago I was listening to a Freakonomics Radio series where they interviewed a bunch of big company CEOs, and one thing that I noticed was they all described their normal routine as involving very little sleep.
It struck me then that being a high power leader is almost certainly genetic in the same way that genes for height are essentially required to be a serious / professional basketball player.
I struggle with sleep, always have, and rarely feel good in the morning without about 8 hours or more in bed. And I’m acutely aware of many of my friends and peers who need much less than this and feel fine. Occasionally I’ll find myself at a conference or something and the group I’m with will stay out late and then get up early and go about their day as normal. I used to try and keep up, but I would be so hung over the next morning (regardless of whether I had anything to drink) as to be non-functional.
It’s a sad thing to me to think that I don’t have the genetics to keep up with the people who need a lot less sleep than I do. However, I’m gradually making peace with it, as I focus on finding things I can do with my life that are compatible with my need for more time in bed.
Well, Marissa Mayer is quite preachy about working long hours and sleeping poorly. She always had important roles in big companies, but he managed Yahoo quite poorly. So she fits the narrative ("no sleep -> CEO"), but that doesn't mean that you will be CEOing correctly.
I'm sure there are other good CEOs that sleep 8 or more hours, but they don't talk about it. I hide the fact that I like to sleep at least 8 hours (but 9 would be my optimal), because sleeping 6 hours or less is a medal in my workplace.
I only know of Basecamp CEOs that take the opposite stance: they admit to sleep at least 8 hours, take long vacations, having cool hobbies and healthy families, working 40ish hours per week... while keeping their bussiness running happily on profits for 17 years in a row. And boy did they receive criticism for saying it out loud. Nonsense like "if you worked harder and slept less, your bussiness would be billionaire instead of millionaire".
I've noticed that higher energy level seems to be the x-factor for some of the materially successful people in my orbit.
My sister simply can. not. sit. still. Not ADHD or whatever. I mean she always has to be in motion. On the move. Doing something. So whereas I'm a daydreamer, in the time I can imagine 3 ways to do a thing, my sister has already tried at least 6 options.
The Big Boss at one startup was a pretty good sales guy. Not especially smart, but good hustle. Yes, we had all the standard problems of a sales & marketing driven org. Over time you get to really know someone. Offline, holidays, birthday & release parties, etc. This Big Boss was always in motion. Never idle. I remember one time just sitting there, watching him in action, marveling at his boundless energy. He has at least 3x my physical energy level, and many people say I exhaust them.
The analogy I think of is higher energy people have more bites at the apple. So just by playing the odds, they'll succeed more often.
I've wandered about the psychology of this forever. Is it a bias towards action? Whereas I can think of 100s of ways something will fail, my sis just acts and learns quicker thru action. So is that a bias towards failing faster?
Recently someone told me his theory. People with thick skin don't need sleep that much. People with thin skin, who are quite receptive, need a lot of sleep.
I can imagine that someone who is CEO also has quite a thick skin and doesn't need to sleep that much. It seems to fit that theory :)
I also need closer to around 9 hours of sleep. I am also a relatively light sleeper for a part of the evening, so I need things like ear plugs, total darkness etc. and I guess part of why I need more sleep is because for part of the night I probably get poor quality sleep. If I do get too little sleep I really struggle very badly compared to other people equally sleep deprived. I have ADHD and when sleep deprived it gets significantly worse and I get very anxious not being able to manage priorities and responsibilities. That said, even though I don't think I'm cut out for leadership positions I certainly have enough coping strategies to take advantage of the times I am functioning well enough not to feel like I've been left behind. Also, not everyone has to become a CEO.
After fighting my body my entire life to fit with the mainstream, I switched to a 20-hours up, 7 hours down sleep schedule six months ago. I've never felt better.
Instead of feeling like a zombie until 5-6 hours into my day and working late into the night, I now can find myself working minutes after waking up - something I never thought possible.
I'm roughly twice as productive as before.
It is admittedly difficult to plan ahead; I don't have dependents and I am a solo developer, working on my own schedule.
One silver lining of COVID is that people are finally getting a glimpse of what post-9-to-5 cubicle work styles can offer.
Why shouldn't we work when and how we are most productive?
I've noticed the same thing myself at various times in my life. My most frequent sleep schedule I maintained was 4am to noon, but it drifts from that pretty often. And when it does, my days push longer. I actually mapped out a "6 day week," where I would sleep 8 hours and be up 20. It lines up with a 24/7 week where I wake up at the same time on the same day each week.
Thank you for posting this. It's encouraging me to consider giving that a shot again. (especially since I woke up at 5pm and that's been pushing later again)
Sounds interesting. I've often noticed that I sleep much better when I stay up longer than usual. I have commitments during the day that would prevent me from doing this though. Did you come up with the idea yourself? I didn't find anything on the web about it.
> [S]hort sleepers may actually have an edge over everyone else. Research is still early, but Fu has found that besides being more efficient at sleep, they tend to be more energetic and optimistic and have a higher tolerance for pain than people who need to spend more time in bed. They also tend to live longer.
And, here I am needing my 8±1 hours every night. Even needing half as much sleep alone would be a real edge. Tack on being naturally more optimistic and having a higher pain tolerance than others, and it starts sounding like a real superpower. Oh, and they live longer, too?
This is exciting research, but I can't help but feel either envious or inferior because of it. Yes, it's a personal failing. Sue me. :P
My real hope is that this research eventually benefits medicine somehow. Maybe they can put it in a bottle for the rest of us (unlikely!). Or, since lack of sleep is linked to so many conditions, including systemic inflammation, maybe we'll get some insight into what the relationship is between sleep and inflammation? Maybe a "sleep gene panel" will become a standard test and guide how we treat certain conditions? Who knows.
It sounds like half the advantages, at least, are benefits of sleeping as much as you need. If I don't sleep enough I'm grumpy and apathetic, so if I only needed to sleep 6 hours (instead of 8+) I'm sure I would be happier.
I find it almost impossible to sleep more than 5 hours in one night, but I feel great all day and never feel tired. Exercise for a dozen hours per week and have good discipline with putting away the phone at night, etc.
We are always told how bad this is, but there is no solution offered which actually works and I've never experienced a downside. It would be nice to prove once and for all that it isn't harmful for us all.
I'm fairly close to this. I used to require almost exactly 4 hours of sleep a night, and getting more or less than that made me feel absolutely abysmal, but over the years it's jumped up to 5.5 hrs/night with it being slightly more forgiving about the range (from 4-6 hours I feel decently okay, best at 5.5 and worse as I fall away from that, but outside of that band I feel completely horrid). I get more rest than this, but the extra hours of rest are usually laying down listening to music or the occasional audio book.
I think the biggest agent of change is my autoimmune disease which has worsened over the years and now requires of me more rest and sleep maintenance.
Got a cruel reminder of all of this sleep-related business last night with the bay area thunderstorm waking me after only 3 hours of sleep and the storm and heat keeping me awake until my body screamed for a rare noon siesta.
Similarly, I have found that every hour of exercise removes the need to sleep about an hour, to a certain point. Unlike you, though, several hours a week of exercise brings my nightly need to sleep down to 8 from 9-10!
If there is anything that I realized after reading so many (apparent) researches on dietary habits, sleep cycle, exercise, and whatnot is that you are unique and you do what works for you. Most of these are just average(as in expected value) results that are extrapolated out of a superficial survey, which they call study; and some of these are outright bad. Yes, there are general heuristics like being disciplined with your time and effort which if followed can be beneficial, but most of us will have to go through the suffering to discover that; and fwiw, you'll eventually discover that on your as you age and see that your (unrealized) slothfulness, carelessness and temptation is harming you more than you think they are.
I use to work at a seed stage startup, where I had to grind out days together without sleeping and eating, because of which I suffered from severe health issues mostly lifestyle related. I browsed through every blog, every paper, every podcast and youtube videos I could get my hands on --- tried all of them over a period of 2.5 years to a deteriorating health and increased stress. Luckily 2 years ago, I went to a Vipasana silent meditation retreat, where for 10 days you eat on time, sleep on time(9pm), wake up on time(4:30am), and meditate rest of the time. I don't how that retreat itself helped me, but I somehow managed to adhere to that schedule for 2 years now and I feel better than ever.
NB: I don't meditate all day, but I meditate 1 hour every day while also maintain my eating habits and sleeping habits.
Yeah, this is pretty much my experience with people who loudly claim they dont need to sleep much.
There is imo bias in play tho, the loud "I sleep little" people do so because they picked up that working or playing till night is cool thing to do. Which has little to do with their actual sleep needs. And the bragging has a bit to do with diminished self control due to sleep deprivation.
Meanwhile, people who actually need to sleep less, would just ... sleep less without talking about it or even realizing it, so you will never know.
A common suggestion, also in this thread, for increased sleep quality is limiting screen time or any stimulating activity before bed time.
But what to do then? Talking to housemates might be ok, but what if you have none, or the conversations end up stimulating? Similar for books. The books Im usually interested in (non fiction) tend to be very stimulating. I remember fiction to be quite stimulating, too.
I guess the crux of the problem is, how do you stick to doing something that is boring on purpose? And is the improvement in sleep quality really worth it?
My take is that it's about the "stimulating activity" rather than the actual screen time. When broken down it's intuitive, but the "reduce screen time" adage often gets repeated without that distinction.
Specifically about your problem: for me, I move from a state of "active engagement" to "passive consumption". 1 to 2 hours before bed, I stop doing anything engaging that requires my active participation - work, video games, learning. I shift to lounging on the couch and reading fiction or watching a movie/show. The key is in my intentions behind each: in the evening, my goal is to relax. I dont turn on a movie with the intention to learn or to be entertained; I'm just there to experience it.
Sorry if that's too abstract; the feeling is hard to communicate. Hopefully it's a useful starting point for further thinking.
An interesting aside: circadian rhythms often group in multiples of 1.5 hours, and I can say from experience that it is better for me to get 7.5 than 8 hours
Hell, disrupting REM mid-cycle is worse (in my experience) than fewer cycles that are all while: better to get 6 hours than 8.
Yes, I need 9 hours of sleep per day, ideally 10. Unfortunately, it is hardly possible to have this kind of schedule when your family are all morning birds.
I'm so happy to see this type of research being more broadly accepted mainstream.
We don't have one diet for everybody, one exercise type for everybody, why do we think sleep would be any different.
We're working on improving sleep performance, if you're interested in this sort of thing, sign-up to get on our waitlist https://withbliss.com or reach out.
You could replace Seemay Chou with my my name in that first paragraph. For as long as I can remember I have went to bed at midnight(ish) and have been wide awake and productive around 4-430 without the use of any alarm. Consistently. Weekends and holidays. My family does not understand it, and I do not understand how they allow themselves to sleep in everyday.
I like it like this. I get to be awake and go about my business without interruption when the people around me are asleep. I get much done between the hours of 4am and 8am.
When I travel for work I get to see other cities with almost no traffic on the streets. New York and LA, Atlanta. It has a certain feeling to it. Although in recent years if I happen to be on the streets at 5am I usually notice a fair amount of foot traffic outside of fitness clubs.
At first I saw these people as intruders, encroaching on my little, peaceful world. The early morning has a certain feeling that is somehow diminished with the addition of other people...
Margaret Tatcher famously only slept for 4 hours, but it’s said she used to nap in the car whenever she could. I think cultures where they take a nap during the day, such as the siesta in Spain, may be onto something. More offices need to have sleep pods.
The issue is we're calling it a 'nap' but it's not, it's basically 'biphasic sleep', before the industrial revolution it used to be the standard.
Sleep, wake up for a few hours, sleep again. This new-fangled 8 hour block of sleep people seem to think they need to do is incredibly detrimental to health.
There would be other issues like how much we can change our sleeping hours and circadian. The article mentioned it's crazy to say everybody has to be the same height, but nutrition and exercise can influence how tall a children is going to be. Besides our heights, from weight to intellectual performance it's always interaction between nature and nurture.
Similarly, we shouldn't consider gene as an excuse against trying to be productive given fewer sleep hours. On the other hand, it could be better if we don't have to force ourselves or anyone to sleep fewer even if someday there would be a scientific way to do so.
It's not just the amount of sleep that affects us.
For me, the biggest improvement I had thanks to the 'rona lockdowns was I finally can follow a decent sleep schedule - wake me up at 8 or earlier and I'm essentially an unusable wreck for the first 4 or so hours, so when I was able to sleep until 9 because I had no need to rush for eating, showering and to travel the ~45min to work I actually am way more productive.
Now, if politicians could get their butts to introducing 32 or shorter hour work weeks (=4 day work week)... that would be yet another boost, for physical and mental health as well as for unemployment numbers.
I need maybe 4-5 hours to function and 6 to function well. Anything more than that I feel stressed all day like I missed something. I can typically jump out of bed (literally) at around 6 hours excited for the day and do a full 12 hours of work.
That being said, I have slept 8 hours or so when I am sick or feeling a tad depressed.
My wife in contrast needs 8-10 hours of sleep to feel that way. But with kids she gets 7-8 hours so she’s always a bit groggy.
Ideally We’d sleep without alarms, but our children let us know when it’s time to get up (and there’s some variance there).
I think your body adjusts sleep based on its needs and we should probably listen to it.
The article seems to be too obvious, maybe I am missing some bits of info here.
After I read "why we sleep" all these: "sleep faster", "you need 8 hours", "I wake up at 4am" seems ridiculous to me. It's all depends, try to sleep 8 hours and if 6h works for you - lucky you, if 4am works for you - lucky you, if you need 7h or 10h - good, stick to it and adjust your schedule.
Despite all the articles on how bad "why we sleep" is, it helped me a lot, at least with basics, that's all I need due to lack of ambition to get a PhD in why people sleep.
I tried everything, slept 10h, 8h, 6h, mix(night/day) and there always was only one thing that worked for me: wake up without alarm in the "late morning". No matter how hard I try, morning is just not for me, I fought with it for too many years and the war is over, my sleep always wins. Evening works best for me, no matter of what people try to convince or adjust me to.
TL;DR try what works for you and don't try to adjust with others.
>
‘The researchers expected that regardless of the time of day, men in both groups would see improvements in blood-sugar levels. But “when they exercised in the morning, they actually had slightly higher levels of blood sugar [than baseline], which we didn’t expect at all,” ‘
There’s a circadian effect to blood glucose...it’s part of how you wake up. Kind of surprised the authors of a circadian rhythm study didn’t factor this in.
I decided that I really am a morning person and decided to go bed around ~2030 (sometimes at the weekend I’ll go bed later if I’m out with family or something) and I wake up when my body is ready. Usually that’s around 0500. Then I walk the dog for 30-40mins, eat breakfast and then do some studying for a few hours before I start work at 0800.
I do feel much better, and it’s nice waking up when I’m ready without an alarm.
[+] [-] michaericalribo|5 years ago|reply
I don’t sleep 8 every night: sometimes it’s longer, usually it’s more like 6, but either way I don’t use an alarm to wake up.
The key for me was to prioritize my sleep health by minimizing screen time before bed, going to bed consistently at the same time, and always leaving enough time to get 8 full hours if my body ends up wanting it.
I don’t _always_ need 8 hours, but it makes a huge difference when I do. And empirically, my well being—physical and mental—improves substantially if I am going out of my way to tend my sleep health.
[+] [-] sharken|5 years ago|reply
So this thread helps but also something like this article about sleep hacking is very helpful: https://medium.com/better-humans/what-i-learned-from-six-mon...
I recently experimented with bed linen made by bamboo, but did not experience any big effect. Bamboo is supposed to regulate the temperature at night, but didn't seem able to on warm summer nights.
[+] [-] pc86|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shivetya|5 years ago|reply
I know nothing about the viability but like others you just find what works for you. I do know when I don't have enough sleep, it is really easy - I am irritable
[+] [-] vecter|5 years ago|reply
[0] https://justgetflux.com/
[+] [-] trianglem|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IgorPartola|5 years ago|reply
A part of it was the breast is best craze that has taken over parenting. I don’t disagree with it, but also some people just don’t produce enough milk to fully sustain a child and you need to supplement. When our kids were older my partner found out that her doctor actually noted that her breast tissue was likely to not produce sufficient quantities of milk on her medical chart, but failed to ever tell her. Hence feeding the kids 8-12 times a night, times two kids.
As a result years later I now can’t sleep for more than 5 hours a night without waking up and not being able to go back to sleep for an hour or two. I am slowly figuring out ways to combat this but I have yet to find a solution that lets me sleep a full 7-9 hours my body seems to actually need that doesn’t give me a headache or make my drowsy for the rest of the following day. Sometimes being human is a limitation.
[+] [-] IpV8|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joelvalleroy|5 years ago|reply
He went to some sort of "sleep therapist", I forget the exact nomenclature. Anyway, he was recommended a series of tips (from limit screen time to everything else you may see online). He found it did help. That sort of service may be worth looking into.
[+] [-] mrfusion|5 years ago|reply
Have you ruled out alcohol? I’ve heard drinking at night can cause that.
[+] [-] dongvsascript|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] burlesona|5 years ago|reply
Several years ago I was listening to a Freakonomics Radio series where they interviewed a bunch of big company CEOs, and one thing that I noticed was they all described their normal routine as involving very little sleep.
It struck me then that being a high power leader is almost certainly genetic in the same way that genes for height are essentially required to be a serious / professional basketball player.
I struggle with sleep, always have, and rarely feel good in the morning without about 8 hours or more in bed. And I’m acutely aware of many of my friends and peers who need much less than this and feel fine. Occasionally I’ll find myself at a conference or something and the group I’m with will stay out late and then get up early and go about their day as normal. I used to try and keep up, but I would be so hung over the next morning (regardless of whether I had anything to drink) as to be non-functional.
It’s a sad thing to me to think that I don’t have the genetics to keep up with the people who need a lot less sleep than I do. However, I’m gradually making peace with it, as I focus on finding things I can do with my life that are compatible with my need for more time in bed.
[+] [-] otherme123|5 years ago|reply
I'm sure there are other good CEOs that sleep 8 or more hours, but they don't talk about it. I hide the fact that I like to sleep at least 8 hours (but 9 would be my optimal), because sleeping 6 hours or less is a medal in my workplace.
I only know of Basecamp CEOs that take the opposite stance: they admit to sleep at least 8 hours, take long vacations, having cool hobbies and healthy families, working 40ish hours per week... while keeping their bussiness running happily on profits for 17 years in a row. And boy did they receive criticism for saying it out loud. Nonsense like "if you worked harder and slept less, your bussiness would be billionaire instead of millionaire".
[+] [-] specialist|5 years ago|reply
My sister simply can. not. sit. still. Not ADHD or whatever. I mean she always has to be in motion. On the move. Doing something. So whereas I'm a daydreamer, in the time I can imagine 3 ways to do a thing, my sister has already tried at least 6 options.
The Big Boss at one startup was a pretty good sales guy. Not especially smart, but good hustle. Yes, we had all the standard problems of a sales & marketing driven org. Over time you get to really know someone. Offline, holidays, birthday & release parties, etc. This Big Boss was always in motion. Never idle. I remember one time just sitting there, watching him in action, marveling at his boundless energy. He has at least 3x my physical energy level, and many people say I exhaust them.
The analogy I think of is higher energy people have more bites at the apple. So just by playing the odds, they'll succeed more often.
I've wandered about the psychology of this forever. Is it a bias towards action? Whereas I can think of 100s of ways something will fail, my sis just acts and learns quicker thru action. So is that a bias towards failing faster?
I dunno, but I'd love to find out.
[+] [-] mpol|5 years ago|reply
I can imagine that someone who is CEO also has quite a thick skin and doesn't need to sleep that much. It seems to fit that theory :)
[+] [-] neuronic|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kokey|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peteforde|5 years ago|reply
Instead of feeling like a zombie until 5-6 hours into my day and working late into the night, I now can find myself working minutes after waking up - something I never thought possible.
I'm roughly twice as productive as before.
It is admittedly difficult to plan ahead; I don't have dependents and I am a solo developer, working on my own schedule.
One silver lining of COVID is that people are finally getting a glimpse of what post-9-to-5 cubicle work styles can offer.
Why shouldn't we work when and how we are most productive?
[+] [-] benwills|5 years ago|reply
Thank you for posting this. It's encouraging me to consider giving that a shot again. (especially since I woke up at 5pm and that's been pushing later again)
[+] [-] travbrack|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inakarmacoma|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skrause|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaomidi|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmiller2|5 years ago|reply
And, here I am needing my 8±1 hours every night. Even needing half as much sleep alone would be a real edge. Tack on being naturally more optimistic and having a higher pain tolerance than others, and it starts sounding like a real superpower. Oh, and they live longer, too?
This is exciting research, but I can't help but feel either envious or inferior because of it. Yes, it's a personal failing. Sue me. :P
My real hope is that this research eventually benefits medicine somehow. Maybe they can put it in a bottle for the rest of us (unlikely!). Or, since lack of sleep is linked to so many conditions, including systemic inflammation, maybe we'll get some insight into what the relationship is between sleep and inflammation? Maybe a "sleep gene panel" will become a standard test and guide how we treat certain conditions? Who knows.
[+] [-] JaumeGreen|5 years ago|reply
So I believe this might have done causation link.
[+] [-] emerged|5 years ago|reply
We are always told how bad this is, but there is no solution offered which actually works and I've never experienced a downside. It would be nice to prove once and for all that it isn't harmful for us all.
[+] [-] colmvp|5 years ago|reply
She pointed out one reason why that may be the case: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2018/03/410051/scientists-discover...
[+] [-] awalton|5 years ago|reply
I think the biggest agent of change is my autoimmune disease which has worsened over the years and now requires of me more rest and sleep maintenance.
Got a cruel reminder of all of this sleep-related business last night with the bay area thunderstorm waking me after only 3 hours of sleep and the storm and heat keeping me awake until my body screamed for a rare noon siesta.
[+] [-] didibus|5 years ago|reply
I'd say, if you feel well rested, energized and just overall feel good when you wake up, you don't have any issue.
[+] [-] 1123581321|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koolba|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnnujler|5 years ago|reply
I use to work at a seed stage startup, where I had to grind out days together without sleeping and eating, because of which I suffered from severe health issues mostly lifestyle related. I browsed through every blog, every paper, every podcast and youtube videos I could get my hands on --- tried all of them over a period of 2.5 years to a deteriorating health and increased stress. Luckily 2 years ago, I went to a Vipasana silent meditation retreat, where for 10 days you eat on time, sleep on time(9pm), wake up on time(4:30am), and meditate rest of the time. I don't how that retreat itself helped me, but I somehow managed to adhere to that schedule for 2 years now and I feel better than ever.
NB: I don't meditate all day, but I meditate 1 hour every day while also maintain my eating habits and sleeping habits.
[+] [-] projektfu|5 years ago|reply
"You are gaining weight, not finishing your work, and you had a car accident last week."
"I feel fine on 5 hours of sleep, shut up!"
[+] [-] watwut|5 years ago|reply
There is imo bias in play tho, the loud "I sleep little" people do so because they picked up that working or playing till night is cool thing to do. Which has little to do with their actual sleep needs. And the bragging has a bit to do with diminished self control due to sleep deprivation.
Meanwhile, people who actually need to sleep less, would just ... sleep less without talking about it or even realizing it, so you will never know.
[+] [-] peteforde|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FrojoS|5 years ago|reply
But what to do then? Talking to housemates might be ok, but what if you have none, or the conversations end up stimulating? Similar for books. The books Im usually interested in (non fiction) tend to be very stimulating. I remember fiction to be quite stimulating, too.
I guess the crux of the problem is, how do you stick to doing something that is boring on purpose? And is the improvement in sleep quality really worth it?
[+] [-] cvolzer3|5 years ago|reply
Specifically about your problem: for me, I move from a state of "active engagement" to "passive consumption". 1 to 2 hours before bed, I stop doing anything engaging that requires my active participation - work, video games, learning. I shift to lounging on the couch and reading fiction or watching a movie/show. The key is in my intentions behind each: in the evening, my goal is to relax. I dont turn on a movie with the intention to learn or to be entertained; I'm just there to experience it.
Sorry if that's too abstract; the feeling is hard to communicate. Hopefully it's a useful starting point for further thinking.
[+] [-] michaericalribo|5 years ago|reply
Hell, disrupting REM mid-cycle is worse (in my experience) than fewer cycles that are all while: better to get 6 hours than 8.
[+] [-] atemerev|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pedalpete|5 years ago|reply
We don't have one diet for everybody, one exercise type for everybody, why do we think sleep would be any different.
We're working on improving sleep performance, if you're interested in this sort of thing, sign-up to get on our waitlist https://withbliss.com or reach out.
[+] [-] waltwalther|5 years ago|reply
I like it like this. I get to be awake and go about my business without interruption when the people around me are asleep. I get much done between the hours of 4am and 8am.
When I travel for work I get to see other cities with almost no traffic on the streets. New York and LA, Atlanta. It has a certain feeling to it. Although in recent years if I happen to be on the streets at 5am I usually notice a fair amount of foot traffic outside of fitness clubs.
At first I saw these people as intruders, encroaching on my little, peaceful world. The early morning has a certain feeling that is somehow diminished with the addition of other people...
[+] [-] nigerian1981|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] new_guy|5 years ago|reply
Sleep, wake up for a few hours, sleep again. This new-fangled 8 hour block of sleep people seem to think they need to do is incredibly detrimental to health.
[+] [-] shakascchen|5 years ago|reply
Similarly, we shouldn't consider gene as an excuse against trying to be productive given fewer sleep hours. On the other hand, it could be better if we don't have to force ourselves or anyone to sleep fewer even if someday there would be a scientific way to do so.
[+] [-] mschuster91|5 years ago|reply
For me, the biggest improvement I had thanks to the 'rona lockdowns was I finally can follow a decent sleep schedule - wake me up at 8 or earlier and I'm essentially an unusable wreck for the first 4 or so hours, so when I was able to sleep until 9 because I had no need to rush for eating, showering and to travel the ~45min to work I actually am way more productive.
Now, if politicians could get their butts to introducing 32 or shorter hour work weeks (=4 day work week)... that would be yet another boost, for physical and mental health as well as for unemployment numbers.
[+] [-] lettergram|5 years ago|reply
That being said, I have slept 8 hours or so when I am sick or feeling a tad depressed.
My wife in contrast needs 8-10 hours of sleep to feel that way. But with kids she gets 7-8 hours so she’s always a bit groggy.
Ideally We’d sleep without alarms, but our children let us know when it’s time to get up (and there’s some variance there).
I think your body adjusts sleep based on its needs and we should probably listen to it.
[+] [-] tarasmatsyk|5 years ago|reply
After I read "why we sleep" all these: "sleep faster", "you need 8 hours", "I wake up at 4am" seems ridiculous to me. It's all depends, try to sleep 8 hours and if 6h works for you - lucky you, if 4am works for you - lucky you, if you need 7h or 10h - good, stick to it and adjust your schedule. Despite all the articles on how bad "why we sleep" is, it helped me a lot, at least with basics, that's all I need due to lack of ambition to get a PhD in why people sleep.
I tried everything, slept 10h, 8h, 6h, mix(night/day) and there always was only one thing that worked for me: wake up without alarm in the "late morning". No matter how hard I try, morning is just not for me, I fought with it for too many years and the war is over, my sleep always wins. Evening works best for me, no matter of what people try to convince or adjust me to.
TL;DR try what works for you and don't try to adjust with others.
[+] [-] WMCRUN|5 years ago|reply
There’s a circadian effect to blood glucose...it’s part of how you wake up. Kind of surprised the authors of a circadian rhythm study didn’t factor this in.
[+] [-] Accacin|5 years ago|reply
I do feel much better, and it’s nice waking up when I’m ready without an alarm.