A friend of mine is in a facebook group that has lists of products you can buy, then 4/5-star review and get your money back. We're talking 10-100€ products.
He goes as far as reviewing everything he doesn't buy there with less than 3 stars so his account isn't suspicious.
Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be, not only helping shady companies but also hurting legit ones.
Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better.
And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.
And unfortunately, Amazon has little incentive to stop that. They don't care whether you buy product A or product B as long as you buy them on Amazon. Given that people compare ratings on their platform, it's a safe bet that they'll buy there whatever they decide on.
The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.
There was a post on HN awhile back that was a blog post by a lady that was involved. She got into it thinking it would be good to make some money but she ended up with so much crap that she couldn't give it away (or sell it).
That is why I think AmazonBasics, Amazon fulfilled and Amazon whitelists are getting incredibly popular. (I am a Costco shopper for similar reason. Only if a similar product is not available on Costco I go to Amazon).
> Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be
TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?
Amazon's market has become a cesspool of many trash products with fly-by-night ALLCAPS Youtube-bro dropshipper "brands", if you can even call them that.
Amazon's fast and affordable shipping is addicting, but I've nonetheless steadily shifted my purchasing patterns away from Amazon.
Instead I tend to search Amazon (and Google, etc) to see what options are available, and buy them elsewhere if possible. Ideally directly from high-quality brands' websites, or alternately from smaller, specialized online retail outlets I trust more. Both tend to be more of a passion project and really care about what they're making and selling.
I may not receive the item as fast, but I've adjusted to that and realize in 99% of cases I don't really need that instant gratification.
In fact, fast shipping instant gratification seems more likely to tempt me into un-needed impulse purchases, and I'm better off without it. I make more planned and strategic purchases when I have to wait a little longer to receive them. Better for my personal financial planning and budgeting, and control of my lizard brain response.
I’m actually okay with waiting for shipping time too. What I can’t stand is not knowing the final price and hidden processing and shipping fees that make me just abandon the cart.
I posted a negative review of an inexpensive (~$10) electronic device on Amazon. A few weeks later, the seller contacted me with an offer of a $20 Amazon gift certificate to take it down. I didn't respond. A few days later, they offered $30, then $40, then $50.
My wife posted a 1 star review on a crappy bookshelf that didn't fit the description (not wood, wrong color) and was structurally weak.
On year later, she received an email threatening a defamation lawsuit unless she takes down the review. Looking at the seller reviews, it looks like this wasn't an isolated incident as other people were complaining. Obviously, this doesn't hold legally. But we are left with the feeling that they might still try to challenge us legally at any time, which is a really unpleasant feeling.
I just bought a bluetooth headset from Amazon, brand is Mpow which sells a ton of electronics. In the box there is a card that says "You've been chosen as a lucky customer to get an Amazon Gift Card". It instructs me to write a review "in 1 to 5 stars" then take a picture and send to their gmail address. It also says "For your Amazon account security, do not attach this card picture on your review when you leave a review."
I suspect they get around certain TOS violations by saying "1 to 5 stars on Amazon."
yes, maybe I'd taken that deal. that's even better than the stupid seller once nagging me for 2 months (!) that I should take their shitty 20€-bluetooth-adapter (noisy af) for free, because they are such a nice company... Ehm yes (then bought Fiio for 5€ more (and worse reviews!), which is "a brand" (albeit a chinese one) and works very well).
I recall trying to leave a negative review on a set of nail clippers. I assumed it didn't matter how low quality they were, just as long as they cut nails. Little did I know that I received a set of 3 that weren't aligned by what looks like design to cut nails.
I tried to leave a review with what I said above, but it was flagged and removed. I got an email that it didn't meet review requirements.
I used to work in this space. It is incredibly easy to detect and counter. It just costs money. Amazons retail margins are too good to mess with. Customers are not leaving fast enough to make fixing it worth it. Every time you produce a model showing net present value going down due to fraud someone else will produce one that doesn’t. That guy gets promoted.
Amazon is simply cashing in on its reputation. Once it’s gone you might as well buy from the Chinese source. People used to search stores for things they’d buy cheaper on Amazon. Now people are searching Amazon for things they’ll buy cheaper Alibaba.
Personally, I’ve already shifted to buying DIY tools and supplies directly from China. I found the quality good enough. Some of the industrial consumables you can’t even buy retail in the US. For the high end stuff I buy direct from outlets. I don’t trust Amazon with that either. I could see a future where Amazon gets squeezed from both ends.
The advantage of Amazon over buying directly from China is the fast shipping (if you have prime) and the no hassle return policy. I made the mistake of buying some masks through an ad on a website. While the masks were fine, what they didn't mention was that it took six weeks to deliver. There are plenty of negatives with Amazon (fake reviews, fake products, etc.) but fast shipping and guaranteed returns cover a multitude of sins.
for basic, small stuff, which I actually need fast, at this point, I've switched to local stores, because as Amazon prices at this point (Europe) already include a heavy postage margin, the store is generally 2/3 of the price (up to around 10€ - e.g. kitchen hardware, paper stuff).
That's especially apparent for stuff like USB-cables, where you have a hard-time finding (in the worst search experience on this planet) the few cost-competitive offers (on the marketplace, and they are ridiculous - like 1.5€ delivered with prime the next day). For "Amazon recommended", topsellers or their basic line, it's basically that if you need more than 1 cable (or buy one of the 3-packs...) you can order at a speciality store, pay 6€ shipping and 2€ for the cables (in much better quality - still marginally more expensive for one-off and "I need it now"-things, but as both things are not really sustainable, I consider this a bad habit as well....).
I am a minority but I never fully jumped on Amazon bandwagon. Compared to US, here in Switzerland they simply don't exist. Sending here from ie french or german site adds a massive postage fee on top of delay, and most of the times custom fee, so price skyrockets. Plus having warranty elsewhere ain't worth it in times when tons of stuff breaks quickly.
One good thing that french amazon has - they can deliver to a network of 'post boxes' or compatible small shops to pick up the item usually within a week. That's basically about it, things ain't cheaper, and when ordering from china I don't have that doubt about quality - it is normally on the level of payment.
These days, aliexpress and similar fill the needs.
> I don't buy anything I'll put in/on/around my body on Amazon (e.g. Vitamin supplements, Lotion/face sunscreen, Protein powder)
Even if the brand is legit, I'm still not 100% confident that Amazon's co-mingling stock and switcheroos that can happen in the long supply chain will result in a "real" thing arriving at my door
When the description does not follow basic English grammar (it’s a run in sentence with no caps or punctuation), that’s a red flag for me. Also, the image looks really doctored and not something that seems legit. It doesn’t look sharp if that makes sense.
Here’s the description for context:
“ omega 3 fish oil supplements fatty EPA DHA omega3 burpless capsules supplement pills soft gels men best vitamins omega-3 wild-caught natural women pure humans no burp small extra strength mercury-free fish oil”
If you buy this without reading everything in the product description, I’m sorry.
You say "I'm sorry", but in context it really sounds like you're saying "fuck you".
I like to consider things this way...
At your local grocery store how vigilant are you that your orange juice carton might actually be filled with rat poison? Never crossed your mind? Very remote chance? Why? Because one item in a million is inspected by...who exactly? Think about how you'd feel if you found out one day that your grocery store actually gets its stock from a warehouse where sometimes cartons of OJ are replaced by rat poison on purpose by someone looking to make a buck at someone else's expense. You'd probably feel at least a little violated or betrayed. Aren't we all glad that we don't have to worry about shit like that at the grocery store? We shouldn't have to worry about shit like that from Amazon.
I really wonder what could be the solution to this. Reviews are a mainstay on the web. It's the underlying social experience of it.
But given the untrustworthy nature of reviews in general, I hope there is some method to capture genuine reviews, filter out the noise and filter up the relevant ones.
Perhaps tech like blockchains could help here, but their use is limited to anonymous identity. Its easy to create enough accounts to influence the system.
The only feasible way seems to have direct user accounts that are tied to actual people, something like on facebook. But that is a privacy issue.
Eventually, e-Commerce might devolve into brands and off brands, where the platform becomes irrelevant and other forms of advertising and marketing take control.
Without a functioning trust network, reviews are meaningless. You cannot have both anonymity and healthy e-commerce. We're in a race to the bottom, and there is no "invisible hand" to right the ship. Government will ultimately have to step in with some kind of online ID system.
The people who provide the text templates for these bots really miss creativity. After reading just one or two you realize what's going on. It would be really easy to make them look more authentic just by not going over the top.
One site that has really risen due to this, imo, is Etsy - there you know the person making the product, you can see clear examples of their work, browse their website, look at their previous work, talk with them, etc. It's the opposite of the no-name Amazon experience.
Definitely not cheap and has issues of its own, but worth checking out if, like me you thought it wasn't useful before.
I know of several companies auto listing thousands of foreign manufactured goods on Etsy. I don't know how prevalent this is, but I know not everything there is handmade nor is it all from small individual sellers.
Sometimes I think writing reviews for products that I've purchased on Amazon is kind of a civic duty, a way to fight back against all the fakes and help our fellow shoppers.
[+] [-] zeepzeep|5 years ago|reply
He goes as far as reviewing everything he doesn't buy there with less than 3 stars so his account isn't suspicious.
Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be, not only helping shady companies but also hurting legit ones.
[+] [-] nkozyra|5 years ago|reply
Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better.
And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.
[+] [-] dasudasu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] luckylion|5 years ago|reply
The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.
[+] [-] ycombinete|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giarc|5 years ago|reply
EDIT Here is the article
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon...
And the corresponding HN discussion
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480
[+] [-] KorematsuFred|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Chris2048|5 years ago|reply
TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?
[+] [-] SkyMarshal|5 years ago|reply
Amazon's fast and affordable shipping is addicting, but I've nonetheless steadily shifted my purchasing patterns away from Amazon.
Instead I tend to search Amazon (and Google, etc) to see what options are available, and buy them elsewhere if possible. Ideally directly from high-quality brands' websites, or alternately from smaller, specialized online retail outlets I trust more. Both tend to be more of a passion project and really care about what they're making and selling.
I may not receive the item as fast, but I've adjusted to that and realize in 99% of cases I don't really need that instant gratification.
In fact, fast shipping instant gratification seems more likely to tempt me into un-needed impulse purchases, and I'm better off without it. I make more planned and strategic purchases when I have to wait a little longer to receive them. Better for my personal financial planning and budgeting, and control of my lizard brain response.
[+] [-] x87678r|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TheJoeMan|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] insickness|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zimbatm|5 years ago|reply
On year later, she received an email threatening a defamation lawsuit unless she takes down the review. Looking at the seller reviews, it looks like this wasn't an isolated incident as other people were complaining. Obviously, this doesn't hold legally. But we are left with the feeling that they might still try to challenge us legally at any time, which is a really unpleasant feeling.
[+] [-] jfk13|5 years ago|reply
They don't? OK, that tells us something.
[+] [-] giarc|5 years ago|reply
I suspect they get around certain TOS violations by saying "1 to 5 stars on Amazon."
[+] [-] fock|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mooman219|5 years ago|reply
I tried to leave a review with what I said above, but it was flagged and removed. I got an email that it didn't meet review requirements.
[+] [-] yalogin|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tweedledee|5 years ago|reply
Amazon is simply cashing in on its reputation. Once it’s gone you might as well buy from the Chinese source. People used to search stores for things they’d buy cheaper on Amazon. Now people are searching Amazon for things they’ll buy cheaper Alibaba.
Personally, I’ve already shifted to buying DIY tools and supplies directly from China. I found the quality good enough. Some of the industrial consumables you can’t even buy retail in the US. For the high end stuff I buy direct from outlets. I don’t trust Amazon with that either. I could see a future where Amazon gets squeezed from both ends.
[+] [-] insickness|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fock|5 years ago|reply
That's especially apparent for stuff like USB-cables, where you have a hard-time finding (in the worst search experience on this planet) the few cost-competitive offers (on the marketplace, and they are ridiculous - like 1.5€ delivered with prime the next day). For "Amazon recommended", topsellers or their basic line, it's basically that if you need more than 1 cable (or buy one of the 3-packs...) you can order at a speciality store, pay 6€ shipping and 2€ for the cables (in much better quality - still marginally more expensive for one-off and "I need it now"-things, but as both things are not really sustainable, I consider this a bad habit as well....).
[+] [-] saiya-jin|5 years ago|reply
One good thing that french amazon has - they can deliver to a network of 'post boxes' or compatible small shops to pick up the item usually within a week. That's basically about it, things ain't cheaper, and when ordering from china I don't have that doubt about quality - it is normally on the level of payment.
These days, aliexpress and similar fill the needs.
[+] [-] alexanderdou|5 years ago|reply
> I don't buy anything I'll put in/on/around my body on Amazon (e.g. Vitamin supplements, Lotion/face sunscreen, Protein powder)
Even if the brand is legit, I'm still not 100% confident that Amazon's co-mingling stock and switcheroos that can happen in the long supply chain will result in a "real" thing arriving at my door
[+] [-] someonehere|5 years ago|reply
Here’s the description for context:
“ omega 3 fish oil supplements fatty EPA DHA omega3 burpless capsules supplement pills soft gels men best vitamins omega-3 wild-caught natural women pure humans no burp small extra strength mercury-free fish oil”
If you buy this without reading everything in the product description, I’m sorry.
[+] [-] ebg13|5 years ago|reply
I like to consider things this way...
At your local grocery store how vigilant are you that your orange juice carton might actually be filled with rat poison? Never crossed your mind? Very remote chance? Why? Because one item in a million is inspected by...who exactly? Think about how you'd feel if you found out one day that your grocery store actually gets its stock from a warehouse where sometimes cartons of OJ are replaced by rat poison on purpose by someone looking to make a buck at someone else's expense. You'd probably feel at least a little violated or betrayed. Aren't we all glad that we don't have to worry about shit like that at the grocery store? We shouldn't have to worry about shit like that from Amazon.
[+] [-] arafa|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeoPanthera|5 years ago|reply
IMHO, they're too positive. If you scroll down, there's a lot of negative factors, but the above the fold summary is quite cheerful.
The FakeSpot page is much clearer.
https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-su...
[+] [-] kumarvvr|5 years ago|reply
But given the untrustworthy nature of reviews in general, I hope there is some method to capture genuine reviews, filter out the noise and filter up the relevant ones.
Perhaps tech like blockchains could help here, but their use is limited to anonymous identity. Its easy to create enough accounts to influence the system.
The only feasible way seems to have direct user accounts that are tied to actual people, something like on facebook. But that is a privacy issue.
Eventually, e-Commerce might devolve into brands and off brands, where the platform becomes irrelevant and other forms of advertising and marketing take control.
[+] [-] vannevar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvfjsdhgfv|5 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU
The people who provide the text templates for these bots really miss creativity. After reading just one or two you realize what's going on. It would be really easy to make them look more authentic just by not going over the top.
[+] [-] searchableguy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dannykwells|5 years ago|reply
Definitely not cheap and has issues of its own, but worth checking out if, like me you thought it wasn't useful before.
[+] [-] JaggedJax|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mobilio|5 years ago|reply
Honestly any service with reviews can be faked.
[+] [-] ed_elliott_asc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] panpanna|5 years ago|reply
Note that this won't work on sites where the seller can delay publishing your review (e.g AliExpress).
[+] [-] sq1020|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mitchbob|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.fakespot.com/
[+] [-] nbrempel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dahoon|5 years ago|reply