“Toronto-based startup TransPod has signed a memorandum of understanding with the government to study the potential of a high-speed hyperloop system and help it attract investors.”
And let’s translate that from polite Canadian PR speak: this will never, ever, ever happen, but it sounds nice, so we’ll put it out there.
And before you say “you’re just a cynic, you have to believe in the power of disruption”, I want you to study the vast cost overruns and cost-disease of every public transit project of note in Canada in recent memory, and then tell me how magic startup fairy dust will cut through sclerotic governments both municipal, provincial, and federal.
I live in Alberta. There is no way this will be economically viable in the short term.
Here's what this is competing with:
Driving from Edmonton to Calgary, downtown to downtown, takes about 3 hours. My car can do a round trip on a single tank of gas with enough left over to do a little running around. The cost is about $60 in fuel, an unknown amount of wear-and-tear on the car, and three hours of time. I've done this trip with four people, so that works out $25/person assuming $40 worth of wear-and-tear on the car. The depreciation and insurance costs are not a factor here since those happen regardless.
If you don't own a car, but have a driver's license, you can pick up a Communauto (our version of ZipCar/Car2Go/etc) and drive it down there. This would probably cost less than $100, and Communauto includes fuel, insurance, and maintenance, but the cars in their fleet aren't necessarily ones that I'd choose for a road trip.
The flight from Edmonton to Calgary takes about 45 minutes from takeoff to landing. You need to arrive at the airport 1.5-2 hours before takeoff. Plus you need to get to the airport at the start of your trip and to your destination at the end. The cost is between $100 and $300 depending on how far you plan ahead, plus three hours of time.
There is currently no passenger rail service between Edmonton and Calgary.
There is bus service between the two cities. Red Arrow runs between Edmonton and Calgary and isn't too bad. You still have to get to the bus terminal at the start and your destination at the end, but the terminals may be in walking distance if you're going downtown to downtown. The cost is $172 plus three hours of time.
To work, this needs to find the sweet spot of taking less time than driving, being less of an annoyance than air travel, and priced right to make up for its own set of shortcomings. $25 per person plus three hours is a really tough price to beat.
Most people drive alone, not in groups.
With traffic it's more than 3 hours.
That doesn't count insurance, cost of car, wear and tear.
3 hours is ugly, though 4-5 would be a sweeter spot.
If the tube works downtown to downtown in 45 minutes, people will pay $80 a ticket no problem.
Honestly the bigger problem is that Edmonton/Calgary 'downtown' is still 'nowhere' ... you need a car when you get there, it ain't Paris or Munich.
What Calgary/Edmonton needs is a fast train that connects to other, more local fast trains and commuters and light rail.
The Saudi funded Hyperloop project should be a good litmus test for Hyperloops around the world. It's ideal: across flat land, no mountains / tunnels, lots of money behind it.
Not sure how far along they are in construction though.
I don't think this project will happen, but it has some similar characteristics. Two cities with metro populations over 1 million that are separated by approximately 300kms of flat, sparsely populated land seems like a perfect test case.
Note that TransPod is the maglev vactrain variant of hyperloop, distinct from the air bearing system in the original hyperloop white paper. This avoids new technology, and lets you use existing COTS maglev track, but... would be more expensive per mile than air bearings. Curious choice for a train in Alberta.
As an Albertan living in Edmonton and as per the feasibility study mentioned in the article, I don't think this is happening. That said, if by some miracle it does happen, that would be awesome!
Also Albertan. Maybe it's unrealistic but I agree it would be pretty awesome to see in my lifetime. Would also be cool to see Alberta get on the map for something other than oil.
The new development appears to be that the province is allowing the test track to be built on crown land in a place where it could become a part of the full line, if actually built. Previously, the test track would need to be removed even if the line went ahead.
While it's still unlikely a full hyperloop line will be built, this agreement does goose the odds upwards slightly at little public cost, provided precautions are put in place to ensure the company building the test line does actually pay for its removal if the full line is not built.
Typical drivers can do the trip in ~2.5hrs. Mind you that is door to door w/ your actual destination.
Depending on regulations (similar to preflight security), this could be a 1 hour trip. If you need to also take a taxi to and from the hyperloop, you're not looking at much time savings. IMO the real value of these options is that you can do something else in the mean time. You can read, you can make calls, you can sleep.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, downvoting isn't for disagreement, it's for etiquette violations, etc.
I agree this is not the most sensible locale to test this. There used to be frequent VIA rail service between the two cities (I remember taking it as a kid, at least as far as Innisfail to visit my grandpa) and I believe that's gone, due to lack of demand.
The cities are close enough that driving isn't terrible.
Now, it does have rather flat and easy to deal with topography, so there's that.
Toronto to Montreal / Ottawa, that's a route where high speed rail is desperately needed. Even more so if it was extended to come from Detroit and/or Buffalo.
If we're sticking with Alberta, maybe Edmonton to Fort McMurray, to get oil workers to/from the north. That's a crappy drive, and long.
Why would hyperloop need the same regulations as preflight security? Trains today do not have such regulations, and considering this would be a vacuum sealed vehicle with no chance of veering off course, it doesn't seem to be a great vehicle for a terrorist attack.
This isn't Elon's Hyperloop for those wondering. The term Hyperloop's been misappropriated and applied to different technology to piggyback on the hype Elon caused.
No, that's wrong. "Hyperloop" was never going to work, so Musk spun it off into this "competition" that still has people trying to figure out some way to make something that even resembles his original mutterings. Today, this almost always manifests itself as a maglev train in a tube.
This way, Musk saves face by not failing publically.
If the idea fails, he can just say "It was in your hands, I left the idea with you!"
As I always comment on threads like these, one of the supposed benefits that make hyperloop cheaper than rail is lack of expansion joints. The tube floats axially except halfway between each station where it is fixed. There's only one sensible in between station (Red Deer), putting each section of tube at 75km. If steel and assuming -40C to +60C temperature range (taking a guess at the tube's temperature on a hot day), you need +/- 27m for thermal expansion at each station. This needs to somehow maintain a vacuum seal and is also where you are boarding people, presumably through airlocks. Sure, there could be solutions but I don't find it credible that the feasibility is higher than a train.
[+] [-] perardi|5 years ago|reply
“Toronto-based startup TransPod has signed a memorandum of understanding with the government to study the potential of a high-speed hyperloop system and help it attract investors.”
And let’s translate that from polite Canadian PR speak: this will never, ever, ever happen, but it sounds nice, so we’ll put it out there.
[+] [-] perardi|5 years ago|reply
We barely made Presto cards work.
[+] [-] voisin|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cycop|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vmception|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mister_Snuggles|5 years ago|reply
Here's what this is competing with:
Driving from Edmonton to Calgary, downtown to downtown, takes about 3 hours. My car can do a round trip on a single tank of gas with enough left over to do a little running around. The cost is about $60 in fuel, an unknown amount of wear-and-tear on the car, and three hours of time. I've done this trip with four people, so that works out $25/person assuming $40 worth of wear-and-tear on the car. The depreciation and insurance costs are not a factor here since those happen regardless.
If you don't own a car, but have a driver's license, you can pick up a Communauto (our version of ZipCar/Car2Go/etc) and drive it down there. This would probably cost less than $100, and Communauto includes fuel, insurance, and maintenance, but the cars in their fleet aren't necessarily ones that I'd choose for a road trip.
The flight from Edmonton to Calgary takes about 45 minutes from takeoff to landing. You need to arrive at the airport 1.5-2 hours before takeoff. Plus you need to get to the airport at the start of your trip and to your destination at the end. The cost is between $100 and $300 depending on how far you plan ahead, plus three hours of time.
There is currently no passenger rail service between Edmonton and Calgary.
There is bus service between the two cities. Red Arrow runs between Edmonton and Calgary and isn't too bad. You still have to get to the bus terminal at the start and your destination at the end, but the terminals may be in walking distance if you're going downtown to downtown. The cost is $172 plus three hours of time.
To work, this needs to find the sweet spot of taking less time than driving, being less of an annoyance than air travel, and priced right to make up for its own set of shortcomings. $25 per person plus three hours is a really tough price to beat.
[+] [-] jariel|5 years ago|reply
If the tube works downtown to downtown in 45 minutes, people will pay $80 a ticket no problem.
Honestly the bigger problem is that Edmonton/Calgary 'downtown' is still 'nowhere' ... you need a car when you get there, it ain't Paris or Munich.
What Calgary/Edmonton needs is a fast train that connects to other, more local fast trains and commuters and light rail.
[+] [-] 908B64B197|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GaryNumanVevo|5 years ago|reply
Not sure how far along they are in construction though.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49096675
[+] [-] bearcobra|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jariel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sbierwagen|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransPod
As other commentors have noted, this is a pre-pre-pre announcement. They're not even talking about breaking ground for another 5 years.
[+] [-] osipovas|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cmorgan8506|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beloch|5 years ago|reply
While it's still unlikely a full hyperloop line will be built, this agreement does goose the odds upwards slightly at little public cost, provided precautions are put in place to ensure the company building the test line does actually pay for its removal if the full line is not built.
[+] [-] maerF0x0|5 years ago|reply
Depending on regulations (similar to preflight security), this could be a 1 hour trip. If you need to also take a taxi to and from the hyperloop, you're not looking at much time savings. IMO the real value of these options is that you can do something else in the mean time. You can read, you can make calls, you can sleep.
Also: Obligatory monorail comment for hyper loop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM
[+] [-] cmrdporcupine|5 years ago|reply
I agree this is not the most sensible locale to test this. There used to be frequent VIA rail service between the two cities (I remember taking it as a kid, at least as far as Innisfail to visit my grandpa) and I believe that's gone, due to lack of demand.
The cities are close enough that driving isn't terrible.
Now, it does have rather flat and easy to deal with topography, so there's that.
Toronto to Montreal / Ottawa, that's a route where high speed rail is desperately needed. Even more so if it was extended to come from Detroit and/or Buffalo.
If we're sticking with Alberta, maybe Edmonton to Fort McMurray, to get oil workers to/from the north. That's a crappy drive, and long.
[+] [-] chrisco255|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bluGill|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] loceng|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Alupis|5 years ago|reply
This way, Musk saves face by not failing publically.
If the idea fails, he can just say "It was in your hands, I left the idea with you!"
Pretty clever exploit...
[+] [-] 1235711|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnwalkr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maerF0x0|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cycop|5 years ago|reply