I own a 2012 Nissan Leaf which has had major battery degradation (first battery went under 70% in only 33k miles, second battery currently around 85% at 45k miles = 78k miles total on both). But on this site, the 2012 Nissan Leaf has less than 2 years of data and shows zero degradation during that time. So it seems like the data is questionable.
I will mention that the leaf suffers from another problem that sets it apart from more recent ev's like the tesla.
I don't really think it's as much temperature management or some defect.
I think it's the size of the battery - it's small. You can figure out the lifetime with simple math. A tesla with 250 miles range with 1000 cyles would have gone 250,000 miles. A leaf with 75 miles range * 1000 cycles will have gone 75k miles.
And telsa recommends keeping the battery between 20 and 80% and I believe the slider says "daily" is 60% and "trip" is 90% (for occasional use)
A 2012 leaf will default to 100%. There is a way to change this to a lower value, but it's well hidden in the system settings and I believe you have to agree to telemetry to set it.
And if you DO set it on the leaf, you will limit your range to about 45 miles (of ideal driving)
Anyway, the idea is that newer cars have bigger batteries, a much higher lifetime mileage, and no need to cycle the battery charge so high, so low, or as frequently.
(a tesla driven 200 miles a week might cycle the battery once while a leaf would cycle every day)
>I own a 2012 Nissan Leaf which has had major battery degradation (first battery went under 70% in only 33k miles
A battery isn't like a tank of gas; it's never truly off. It's full of reactive chemicals and powerful solvents, and it degrades over time even if you don't cycle it. How long did it take your battery to drop?
I tried to look up the 2012 Chevy Volt. There is only 2 years of data for an 8 year old car. Not sure what its trying to tell me about 8 year old batteries when there is only data for the first 2 years.
I saw that too. I have a 2012 Chevy Volt and it still gets on average around 32-35 miles (about original capacity) - The range depends a lot on driving style and climate control. I found out how Chevy over-engineered the system to only use 50% of the battery to maximize its life and the advanced cooling system. The fact that it has a built-in gas-powered generator allows it to be more conservative of the battery life.
"..batteries are exhibiting high levels of sustained health. If the observed degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast the usable life of the vehicle."
Issue I have with the tool is the graphic, and it seems everything is pretty linear. Adding just two numbers: reduction Per year and total Reduction after x years, would make it useful on mobile.
Another thing that would improve the tool is some statistics like the best 10% did this and the worst 10% did this.
It looks to me like EVs are completely ready for prime-time, and the only thing holding them back is the inertia/greed of major manufacturers (who cannot sell spare parts or expensive maintenance regimes for them as easily).
Its just a shame that Tesla doesn't have a smaller car, the Model 3 is huge.
I don't care about electric cars, but I care about electric motorcycles. As a long range traveler, there are a few issues that are left unaddressed:
* My bike has a 500 kilometre range, which is about the maximum I'll ride in a day. Electric bikes have a smaller range than what I usually cover in a day. On the highway, the range drops so much that I'd need to take an extended lunch to finish my journey.
* I can extend my range by 200-300km by carrying extra fuel. This is not possible with electric cars.
* I can fuel up in 5 minutes. Refuelling does not dictate my schedule.
* I don't need to find a gas station that's within walking distance of my hotel (I have two heavy boxes to schlep around). Refuelling does not dictate where I can sleep.
* If I run out of fuel, I can ask someone to bring some from a gas station. I don't need to tow the car.
* I can't begin to imagine the logistics of finding a convenient power outlet everywhere I stop.
The thing is, its expensive to make EV. Most manufacturers make negative money when they sell them, or at least don't have good margin.
Also, the amount of battery capacity that currently exists is nowhere near where it needs to be. Most manufactures now try to expand and secure supply, but supply growth is simply not growing fast enough for large companies to switch to EV fast.
Tesla doesn't have a smaller car because even for them making a smaller car would mean that compared to other smaller cars it would be massively expensive. They have to further improve cost to be able to make a competitive small car. ICE industry had 100+ years to reach the scale it has.
I think they are starting now and when the big boom of EV starts with the traditional manufacturers I guess we will not have issues with spare parts. Although I think the automotive market is going through a huge transformation and it might be that a car will become something like a mobile plan or smartphone contract where every 2-4 years you exchange cars.
Btw... Have you seen the new VW ID3 ? I guess it’s the closest thing to a mass market small car you can get nowadays.
Get the word out. Batteries are bad hydrogen is good. Current hydrogen gas will have more energy than batteries at peak technology growth. This matters because hydrogen cars are cheaper, more scalable, and more inclusive than battery cars. Rich people get battery cars, you get a battery bike.
Hydrogen costs 9.5€/kg in Europe. Most cars need 1kg of hydrogen for a 100km trip.
That's expensive as fuck.
Just did the math on my EV, the cost for a 100km trip is around 2.5€, and that's me using public chargers, because I can't charge at home. With home charging, that number would be about 1/3 lower.
PS. Hydrogen cars use the hydrogen to generate electricity, which is again stored in batteries and used to run electric motors.
[+] [-] tomkludy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] acomjean|5 years ago|reply
But your right it’s not comprehensive. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/07/nissans-bigger-battery-...
[+] [-] m463|5 years ago|reply
I don't really think it's as much temperature management or some defect.
I think it's the size of the battery - it's small. You can figure out the lifetime with simple math. A tesla with 250 miles range with 1000 cyles would have gone 250,000 miles. A leaf with 75 miles range * 1000 cycles will have gone 75k miles.
And telsa recommends keeping the battery between 20 and 80% and I believe the slider says "daily" is 60% and "trip" is 90% (for occasional use)
A 2012 leaf will default to 100%. There is a way to change this to a lower value, but it's well hidden in the system settings and I believe you have to agree to telemetry to set it.
And if you DO set it on the leaf, you will limit your range to about 45 miles (of ideal driving)
Anyway, the idea is that newer cars have bigger batteries, a much higher lifetime mileage, and no need to cycle the battery charge so high, so low, or as frequently.
(a tesla driven 200 miles a week might cycle the battery once while a leaf would cycle every day)
[+] [-] cowmix|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scythe|5 years ago|reply
A battery isn't like a tank of gas; it's never truly off. It's full of reactive chemicals and powerful solvents, and it degrades over time even if you don't cycle it. How long did it take your battery to drop?
[+] [-] webreac|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] enkid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckNorris89|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] annoyingnoob|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robotbikes|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] passive|5 years ago|reply
"..batteries are exhibiting high levels of sustained health. If the observed degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast the usable life of the vehicle."
[+] [-] diydsp|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RandomWorker|5 years ago|reply
Another thing that would improve the tool is some statistics like the best 10% did this and the worst 10% did this.
[+] [-] guerby|5 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxCFDWMPu38
Eco-friendly method of recycling EV batteries
[+] [-] zackify|5 years ago|reply
It’s had 0% range loss. Still get the full 322. Pretty impressive.
[+] [-] ArkVark|5 years ago|reply
Its just a shame that Tesla doesn't have a smaller car, the Model 3 is huge.
[+] [-] nicbou|5 years ago|reply
* My bike has a 500 kilometre range, which is about the maximum I'll ride in a day. Electric bikes have a smaller range than what I usually cover in a day. On the highway, the range drops so much that I'd need to take an extended lunch to finish my journey.
* I can extend my range by 200-300km by carrying extra fuel. This is not possible with electric cars.
* I can fuel up in 5 minutes. Refuelling does not dictate my schedule.
* I don't need to find a gas station that's within walking distance of my hotel (I have two heavy boxes to schlep around). Refuelling does not dictate where I can sleep.
* If I run out of fuel, I can ask someone to bring some from a gas station. I don't need to tow the car.
* I can't begin to imagine the logistics of finding a convenient power outlet everywhere I stop.
[+] [-] ericvanular|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ape4|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nickik|5 years ago|reply
Also, the amount of battery capacity that currently exists is nowhere near where it needs to be. Most manufactures now try to expand and secure supply, but supply growth is simply not growing fast enough for large companies to switch to EV fast.
Tesla doesn't have a smaller car because even for them making a smaller car would mean that compared to other smaller cars it would be massively expensive. They have to further improve cost to be able to make a competitive small car. ICE industry had 100+ years to reach the scale it has.
[+] [-] brabel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmedinas|5 years ago|reply
Btw... Have you seen the new VW ID3 ? I guess it’s the closest thing to a mass market small car you can get nowadays.
[+] [-] afrojack123|5 years ago|reply
Get the word out. Batteries are bad hydrogen is good. Current hydrogen gas will have more energy than batteries at peak technology growth. This matters because hydrogen cars are cheaper, more scalable, and more inclusive than battery cars. Rich people get battery cars, you get a battery bike.
[+] [-] theshrike79|5 years ago|reply
That's expensive as fuck.
Just did the math on my EV, the cost for a 100km trip is around 2.5€, and that's me using public chargers, because I can't charge at home. With home charging, that number would be about 1/3 lower.
PS. Hydrogen cars use the hydrogen to generate electricity, which is again stored in batteries and used to run electric motors.