"Shreya Singhal v. Union of India shields Twitter from any liability for failing to take down content unless a court order is passed asking it to do the same."
Those are better free speech protections than in Germany, where after a mere complaint (not court order) platforms are liable for up to 5 million euro if they fail to remove illegal posts within 7 days, and "obviously illegal" posts within 24 hours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act
It is a strategically risky move for Facebook to take an active role in shaping India's political landscape. I imagine that the Indian population might object to American companies deciding what is and isn't appropriate to discuss.
FB's motivation at the end of day is money, they will cater to demands of any ruling org. For long time Zuck was doing trips to PRC to cozy up to CCP.
I went through the article and while I don't rule out the possibility of ideological bias in an org, it seems that they are reaching for it a bit. Like the first instance itself that was mentioned in the article.
> Facebook said in a statement to TIME. “We failed to remove upon initial review, which was a mistake on our part.”
I am not a FB employee but if they have a two step process for removing some posts and say the second step in some cases is creating an issue on the ticketing system. By Occam's razor the simplest explanation can be easily that what FB is saying is the truth, in mid/big companies, issue trackers can easily be the places where things can go to die.
I have personally seen issues being left unaddressed for years. It can happen, and if we pick selective instances to paint a story, it might not be the complete picture.
Though as I mentioned earlier as well, they very well can have a bias if they have hired individuals with the same ideological background which is true for all types of orgs including old media houses.
Inciting ethnic violence was one of the official reasons why TikTok was banned in the country, so surely nobody can object to applying the same Indian standards to Facebook communication, right? Not to mention India already has hate speech laws, so I don't see how Facebook enforcing them on their platform would be anyhting else than complying with... Indian law.
I've always wondered why Facebook's role in the US elections is such a hotly debated topic but Facebook's role in the elections of all the other democracies in the world is not touched upon at all.
"I imagine that the Indian population might object to American companies..."
Does the average Indian person even consciously reflect on Facebook being an American company? I get the impression that for so much of the developing world where Facebook/Whatsapp/Instagram are just about the only internet people know (because these sites don’t count against their mobile data, because they don’t even have e-mail and this is the only way they communicate with people, etc.), people don’t even think about where all this infrastructure comes from. It’s just “the internet”, and it exists with no particular origin or nationality like the air they breathe or the rain that falls from the sky.
Yes, and it doesn't go well. Twitter(India) was summoned by a parliamentary panel when a group accused them of being biased against right-wing accounts.
Facebook is no stranger to picking political winners and losers. In 2016, it seems to have bet the farm on a Trump victory (By being, and then continuing to be incredibly lax on enforcing its rules against his account.)
It knows which side its bread is buttered, and is not going to rock the boat against a sitting president.
This can only be solved when more and more people understand the threats not just for the present, but for the future.
What Facebook and WhatsApp have enabled are convenient and useful for those in power. So while there may probably be some words here and there, we can’t expect a lot of change on the ground.
Disappointingly, the Indian Supreme Court is also lethargic and chooses to look at more trivial matters than give importance to things that could affect the freedom and political landscape for generations — examples are the Aadhaar petitions, cases against the electoral bonds and other matters not being heard for years. The court may actually find merit in holding this commenter in contempt for criticizing it, as if the judiciary is somehow sacred and beyond any criticism (anyone interested can search online for recent news on what the court is doing).
The effect of “absolute power corrupts absolutely” is seen in many corners!
> What Facebook and WhatsApp have enabled are convenient and useful for those in power.
I'm sure they are, but are they more useful than what was before? Facebook & Co have some random element, it's not a one-way-communication device like classic media (TV, radio, newspapers) are/were.
The government has much less control over Facebook. You can't just go in and take it over like you could with a radio station, you can either use it and accept that others can as well, or you can block it in your country, but then you can't use it either.
What Facebook and WhatsApp have enabled are convenient and useful for those in power.
The other side of the coin is that people being able to record and stream police in real time has exposed corruption in the justice system that the mainstream media has been ignoring for decades. The MSM use to never question whether police were being honest.
Are you sure about this? From what I gather the current ruling dispensation in India is opposite of left, and Jack Dorsey has stated in the past about Twitter having left leaning bias. [1] Might not translate to their India operations but I strongly doubt it wouldn't.
Also, FB's proximity to the mega corporation that's known to be very friendly to the ruling party. FB's WhatsApp pay getting clearances / approvals soon after they made a large payment to Jio Platforms.
Timeline:
26Nov2019:
India puts WhatsApp's impending payments service on ice due to data localisation fracas.
Both the security breach by Pegasus malware and WhatsApp's reluctance to adhere to India's data localisation norms have caused it to sit on the sidelines of one of the hottest digital payments markets in the world. [1]
[1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/india-puts-whatsapps-impending...
India is a very lucrative market for FB and other companies.
1 billion people, 2 billion eyes. No privacy laws, can easily share and sell data, govt is in the hands of Reliance (in which FB, Google and others are all investing a lot), most Indians are just getting used to the vast internet and are easily tricked.
Ideally they should have some morality to put basic human rights and safety above profits. Even from long term perspective if they continue to ignore hate speech against Islam on their platform I am sure they would lose a lot of users.
You can see many comments here justifying anti-Muslim actions of the govt by whataboutery. Now imagine that happening at scale on whatsapp/Facebook and MSM.
With most Indian family having access to smartphones, the amount of hatred and brainwashing that happens through this platform is unstoppable. Recently, Hindus were told not to buy from Muslim vendors, saying that Muslims are purposely spreading corona. Hindu sellers were provided with saffron flags for identification. Concentration camps are being built using the same people as workers, who would eventually end up in the camps. MSM openly spews anti-muslim venom during prime time. India is openly heading towards either a genocide or a civil war.
One can try their best to un-brainwash people, but one can't do much against a paid online army of twitter/whatsapp/facebook users.
Would you please stop breaking the site guidelines like this? We've already asked you once recently. I don't want to ban you, but if you keep posting unsubstantive and/or political-battle-style comments, we're going to have to.
For failure of legislation, judiciary, administration, media in India to protect minority, Facebook is not the primary actor. Indeed minorities failed to get support from top courts in India where habeas corpus (the most fundamental basic right of Freedom in Indian constitution) litigations are pending for over 1 year and constantly being postponed, and the topmost court is busy prosecuting a lawyer with urgency for a tweet. His main offence is to use public interest litigation to help minorities, question govt and courts and bring to the front the tyranny of majoritarian politics of suppression. He is in cross-hairs of the current govt, so it’s one another way to silence him from questioning govt or courts for decisions.
Agree that Facebook should act decisively to say no to things which incites violence and suppress the voice of minority.
The least it can do is to remove people immediately in the company who appear in slightest to promote or ignore hate and violent information on platform resulting in loss of life. Here Facebook is duty bound to act internally within its company to make sure it’s staff are responsible for their actions. I don’t see any of this indeed the whole Facebook team in India who did it are promoted based on research in WSJ and this article. Getting cozy with richest man closer to right wing is just to secure profits and market at the expense of principles.
Also right wing politics in India enjoys a substantial support, especially the Hitler style (reflected in many govt decisions). Facebook is just reflection of what’s in the society at present. Majority of the people are happy that a temple built will make India no. 1 in the world, talks and real actions on COVID-19 has become boring and not important as it inches towards no. 1 in the world for COVID-19 infections.
> * Facebook is just reflection of what’s in the society at present.*
Facebook is a company that makes a profit off of engagement, even if that engagement is driven by hate. Facebook alone chooses what they promote on their platform. It is not some kind of mirror that just reflects what goes on in society, it is a company that distorts the truth, outrages and pushes paid propaganda on its users in order to turn a profit.
Hate speech is a core part of political discourse today. It's no longer out of the mainstream. Expecting Facebook to deal with that is asking too much of a private company. Whom should Facebook muzzle? ISIL? Le Pen? Trump?
Facebook's actions in India are absolutely despicable. The head of policy at Facebook in India is a radicalized member of the Indian rightwing and recently put up a post stating that Muslims are a "degenerate community" and was forced to apologise just a couple of days ago because of pressure on FB from their employees.
She gave a half hearted apology. Facebook should have immediately suspended her or sacked her:
During the recent riots in Delhi where many died, the incitement of violence was by a member of the ruling party but has taken no action against Kapil Mishra's account which is still active:
Whatsapp is also used extensively to share misinformation and hateful content, fueling mob violence and hate, especially targetting the minorities across the country.
So much so, that the current Home Minsiter of India, Amit Shah was seen in public bragging about the power of the IT Cell to
"We can keep making messages go viral, whether they are real or fake, sweet or sour"
https://www.thequint.com/news/politics/amit-shah-real-fake-c...
Imagine a White person, who is the head of the organization in a country sharing a post that African Americans are a "degenerate community". In any western country, the person would not only be promptly sacked, but would also become untouchable in mainstream organizations.
The Indian politics and judiciary have been compromised by right wing Hindu nationalists and it is impossible to expect anything from them. However, I expected better from Facebook. In a western country Facebook wouldn't think twice about firing any employee who shared such a post.
I don’t think people have realized that Zuckerberg’s intent is to be the Rupert Murdoch of the 21st century. He’s no ally of liberal society or democracy.
Removing posts by elected officials is running really close to foreign interference in domestic affairs. Given the history of the East India Company, I am sure India is especially sensitive to foreign companies trying to influence or curtail the speech of their elected officials.
> Removing posts by elected officials is running really close to foreign interference in domestic affairs.
No, it's not. If anything, it's opting out of interfering in domestic affairs.
Facebook is not an official channel. The elected official has many other platforms, including the country's media, that will publish their message. They can create a blog if they want.
If Facebook is the only viable channel for reaching a large part of the electorate, the core issue is having only that one channel. You solve it by forcing competition, not by stifling Facebook's right to decide what they want to allow on their platform.
I deeply loathe Facebook and think they're undermining democracy in every country, but there should never be a way for a government to force a publisher to distribute an ideology that the publisher disagrees with.
[+] [-] CMGPwned|5 years ago|reply
source: https://internetfreedom.in/joint-letter-to-twitter-about-rem...
[+] [-] rbecker|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roenxi|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] actuator|5 years ago|reply
I went through the article and while I don't rule out the possibility of ideological bias in an org, it seems that they are reaching for it a bit. Like the first instance itself that was mentioned in the article.
> Facebook said in a statement to TIME. “We failed to remove upon initial review, which was a mistake on our part.”
I am not a FB employee but if they have a two step process for removing some posts and say the second step in some cases is creating an issue on the ticketing system. By Occam's razor the simplest explanation can be easily that what FB is saying is the truth, in mid/big companies, issue trackers can easily be the places where things can go to die.
I have personally seen issues being left unaddressed for years. It can happen, and if we pick selective instances to paint a story, it might not be the complete picture.
Though as I mentioned earlier as well, they very well can have a bias if they have hired individuals with the same ideological background which is true for all types of orgs including old media houses.
[+] [-] Barrin92|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_India
[+] [-] dheera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thewhitetulip|5 years ago|reply
How you ask? The media commonly called as Modi Media blames EVERYTHING on the opposing parties
India is#1 in corona casesper day, who is to blame? Congress. Why? They are soreading fear!
And now they've started using a suicide by a Film actor to stop corona news altogether.
If you look at Hindi and English news they're focused on spreading conspiracies about a dead guy and his girlfriend like gf smoked drugs etc
[+] [-] Mediterraneo10|5 years ago|reply
Does the average Indian person even consciously reflect on Facebook being an American company? I get the impression that for so much of the developing world where Facebook/Whatsapp/Instagram are just about the only internet people know (because these sites don’t count against their mobile data, because they don’t even have e-mail and this is the only way they communicate with people, etc.), people don’t even think about where all this infrastructure comes from. It’s just “the internet”, and it exists with no particular origin or nationality like the air they breathe or the rain that falls from the sky.
[+] [-] jakelazaroff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ashleshbiradar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edge17|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sbmthakur|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vkou|5 years ago|reply
It knows which side its bread is buttered, and is not going to rock the boat against a sitting president.
[+] [-] ashleshbiradar|5 years ago|reply
https://www.equalitylabs.org/facebookindiareport
[+] [-] srean|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jedimind|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wtmt|5 years ago|reply
What Facebook and WhatsApp have enabled are convenient and useful for those in power. So while there may probably be some words here and there, we can’t expect a lot of change on the ground.
Disappointingly, the Indian Supreme Court is also lethargic and chooses to look at more trivial matters than give importance to things that could affect the freedom and political landscape for generations — examples are the Aadhaar petitions, cases against the electoral bonds and other matters not being heard for years. The court may actually find merit in holding this commenter in contempt for criticizing it, as if the judiciary is somehow sacred and beyond any criticism (anyone interested can search online for recent news on what the court is doing).
The effect of “absolute power corrupts absolutely” is seen in many corners!
[+] [-] luckylion|5 years ago|reply
I'm sure they are, but are they more useful than what was before? Facebook & Co have some random element, it's not a one-way-communication device like classic media (TV, radio, newspapers) are/were.
The government has much less control over Facebook. You can't just go in and take it over like you could with a radio station, you can either use it and accept that others can as well, or you can block it in your country, but then you can't use it either.
[+] [-] scarface74|5 years ago|reply
The other side of the coin is that people being able to record and stream police in real time has exposed corruption in the justice system that the mainstream media has been ignoring for decades. The MSM use to never question whether police were being honest.
[+] [-] praveen9920|5 years ago|reply
Also, This is not just a problem with Facebook India, Even Twitter India's heads have very close ties to India's ruling party.
[+] [-] actuator|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/08/19/twitter...
[+] [-] tsjq|5 years ago|reply
Timeline:
26Nov2019: India puts WhatsApp's impending payments service on ice due to data localisation fracas. Both the security breach by Pegasus malware and WhatsApp's reluctance to adhere to India's data localisation norms have caused it to sit on the sidelines of one of the hottest digital payments markets in the world. [1] [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/india-puts-whatsapps-impending...
24Apr2020: Facebook is spending $5.7 billion to capitalize on India's internet boom. [2] [2] https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/22/tech/facebook-india-relia...
08June2020: WhatsApp gets a raw deal from India in payments. WhatsApp needs a nod from the National Payments Corporation of India to throw open the switch. [3]. [3]https://cio.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/enterprise-ser...
16June2020: WhatsApp launches payments service, 2 yrs after it began testing in India. [4] [4]https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/whats...
03Aug WhatsApp a step closer to pay play. [5] [5]https://www.livemint.com/industry/banking/whatsapp-a-step-cl...
04Aug2020: WhatsApp Pay has now met all data localisation rules, NPCI tells RBI [6] [6]https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/startups/news...
05Aug2020: 'NPCI gave ICICI Bank go ahead for WhatsApp Pay in June', RBI informs SC [7] [7]https://www.medianama.com/2020/08/223-npci-approves-whatsapp...
[+] [-] ffpip|5 years ago|reply
1 billion people, 2 billion eyes. No privacy laws, can easily share and sell data, govt is in the hands of Reliance (in which FB, Google and others are all investing a lot), most Indians are just getting used to the vast internet and are easily tricked.
[+] [-] indogooner|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] known|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sbmthakur|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AmIDev|5 years ago|reply
With most Indian family having access to smartphones, the amount of hatred and brainwashing that happens through this platform is unstoppable. Recently, Hindus were told not to buy from Muslim vendors, saying that Muslims are purposely spreading corona. Hindu sellers were provided with saffron flags for identification. Concentration camps are being built using the same people as workers, who would eventually end up in the camps. MSM openly spews anti-muslim venom during prime time. India is openly heading towards either a genocide or a civil war.
One can try their best to un-brainwash people, but one can't do much against a paid online army of twitter/whatsapp/facebook users.
[+] [-] justicezyx|5 years ago|reply
I suspect, China asked something that might undermine Zuck's political ambition.
[+] [-] fareesh|5 years ago|reply
This is a losing strategy
[+] [-] ican1|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] golemiprague|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ican1|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] throwawaymanbot|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] node-bayarea|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] dragonsh|5 years ago|reply
Agree that Facebook should act decisively to say no to things which incites violence and suppress the voice of minority.
The least it can do is to remove people immediately in the company who appear in slightest to promote or ignore hate and violent information on platform resulting in loss of life. Here Facebook is duty bound to act internally within its company to make sure it’s staff are responsible for their actions. I don’t see any of this indeed the whole Facebook team in India who did it are promoted based on research in WSJ and this article. Getting cozy with richest man closer to right wing is just to secure profits and market at the expense of principles.
Also right wing politics in India enjoys a substantial support, especially the Hitler style (reflected in many govt decisions). Facebook is just reflection of what’s in the society at present. Majority of the people are happy that a temple built will make India no. 1 in the world, talks and real actions on COVID-19 has become boring and not important as it inches towards no. 1 in the world for COVID-19 infections.
[+] [-] heavyset_go|5 years ago|reply
Facebook is a company that makes a profit off of engagement, even if that engagement is driven by hate. Facebook alone chooses what they promote on their platform. It is not some kind of mirror that just reflects what goes on in society, it is a company that distorts the truth, outrages and pushes paid propaganda on its users in order to turn a profit.
[+] [-] eklavya|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] throwaway250|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] sbmthakur|5 years ago|reply
Do you even understand what Hiter style means?
[+] [-] Animats|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pkphilip|5 years ago|reply
She gave a half hearted apology. Facebook should have immediately suspended her or sacked her:
https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/facebook-ankhi-das-anti-...
She and her sister (who is a politically connected to the ruling BJP party) have publicly been hobnobbing with the BJP and have actively been involved in propaganda. https://twitter.com/SaketGokhale/status/1294653379046596608
During the recent riots in Delhi where many died, the incitement of violence was by a member of the ruling party but has taken no action against Kapil Mishra's account which is still active:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=283365149510764
His account is still active and he still continues to try and make the Hindus fight the Muslims:
https://www.facebook.com/youth4justice
[+] [-] ashleshbiradar|5 years ago|reply
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/09/whats...
besides that, the ruling party actively uses whatsapp for political reasons, with it's infamous "It Cell" known for manufacturing fake news. https://theprint.in/politics/9500-it-cell-heads-72000-whatsa...
So much so, that the current Home Minsiter of India, Amit Shah was seen in public bragging about the power of the IT Cell to "We can keep making messages go viral, whether they are real or fake, sweet or sour" https://www.thequint.com/news/politics/amit-shah-real-fake-c...
[+] [-] statguy|5 years ago|reply
The Indian politics and judiciary have been compromised by right wing Hindu nationalists and it is impossible to expect anything from them. However, I expected better from Facebook. In a western country Facebook wouldn't think twice about firing any employee who shared such a post.
[+] [-] claudeganon|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pkphilip|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] RcouF1uZ4gsC|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smt88|5 years ago|reply
No, it's not. If anything, it's opting out of interfering in domestic affairs.
Facebook is not an official channel. The elected official has many other platforms, including the country's media, that will publish their message. They can create a blog if they want.
If Facebook is the only viable channel for reaching a large part of the electorate, the core issue is having only that one channel. You solve it by forcing competition, not by stifling Facebook's right to decide what they want to allow on their platform.
I deeply loathe Facebook and think they're undermining democracy in every country, but there should never be a way for a government to force a publisher to distribute an ideology that the publisher disagrees with.