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Pakistan blocks Tinder, Grindr and other apps

51 points| sbmthakur | 5 years ago |theguardian.com | reply

91 comments

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[+] nakodari|5 years ago|reply
Pakistani here, I gave Tinder a try once and it was awful. The majority of Pakistanis don't date the way Americans do due to the conservative values. When we sign up for a dating app, what we're looking for is someone whom we can connect with and marry soon - possibly within 6-12 months timeframe. Tinder is optimized for American dating and is incompatible with our family values. Therefore, when you signed up for Tinder in Pakistan, you saw that it was a hookup app rather than an app that helps you find a lifelong partner. Most Pakistanis who're serious about finding a partner use Muslim dating apps like Muzmatch and Minder.

Edit: A lot of people have replied below that this does not justify banning the app. I have simply shared my experience and also the experience of many others in Pakistan. Tinder turned into an immoral app (borderline pornography in many cases) and this being an Islamic Republic of Pakistan, it went against the conservative values of the nation to hookup and thus it was banned by the govt. The govt is the democratic representative of the people and does what the majority of the nation expects them to do.

[+] thiht|5 years ago|reply
>The govt is the democratic representative of the people and does what the majority of the nation expects them to do

A democracy must not be a tyranny of the majority. What if part of the Pakistani population enjoy these apps? Why ban them if they don't harm anybody?

[+] acephal|5 years ago|reply
I love all the replies implying they can obliviously dictate a completely different culture's values to them
[+] dumb1224|5 years ago|reply
Good friend of mine from Pakistan got married last year (via matchmaking) and I wish them happiest days. Besides small set of culture differences their values (family etc) are almost no different from other friends say from catholic countries in Europe. Of course I didn't want to generalise but that's how I feel.
[+] sergioisidoro|5 years ago|reply
That does not excuse banning an app on a moral basis. Some people might not see themselves in those family values.
[+] unixhero|5 years ago|reply
Thanks for responding, it is interesting to hear your perspective.

What was awful about it? It seems to me that it was a difference of expectations?

[+] Erlich_Bachman|5 years ago|reply
So that's why it's ok to ban an app? Don't you think it is better to let the people choose what they want? If you are right, and that's what people will choose, the app will die on its own because it will have no users.
[+] swiley|5 years ago|reply
As an American: tinder is awful here too but I think that’s just because dating is hard.
[+] clktmr|5 years ago|reply
Ok. But this doesn't justify blocking the app by the government, or does it?
[+] _trampeltier|5 years ago|reply
Meanwhile in the western world banks decide about the content on pages like Fetlife and about the color of dildos in webshops.
[+] ravenstine|5 years ago|reply
I wonder if the ability to send and receive money should be considered a right as we become cashless.
[+] mellosouls|5 years ago|reply
What is it about Tinder that brings on these flame-wars on HN?

It's almost like those who question Tinder's moral neutrality and innocence in its impact on society have a point...

[+] thefz|5 years ago|reply
Talk about distros or the cool new tech, we can carry on a decent discussion. Talk about sex life and everyone loses their mind.
[+] thewatcher2|5 years ago|reply
I'd support this action. Social media and dating apps are an experiment on the population that they never consented to. We need a reserve of people who are not as much impacted by it for further studies.

Until the day AR glasses come that can show you entire financial, sexual, educational, criminal history etc of a person on the street, dating apps is hurting the majority of the population.

So are the privacy laws that are going to stifle innovation, if people want social media and hyper competitive dating, the free market would also allow the right to violation of privacy by current standards which would allow for AR glasses to show a person history before you even talk to them.

In the past people used to look at the family history or got introduced to potential mates by trusted friends. Dating apps have none of that.

The market is neither free, nor fair.

A new generation of dating apps that monitor your entire life and do background checks and publicize it to the world would change the playing field immensely.

[+] Mindwipe|5 years ago|reply
> In the past people used to look at the family history or got introduced to potential mates by trusted friends.

Lol, no they didn't. They got drunk and hooked up at bars.

[+] thefz|5 years ago|reply
You just wish that the focus in dating shifted from being attractive to being financially stable.
[+] thefounder|5 years ago|reply
Perhaps the pakistani people should be left to decide what's immoral and what's not?
[+] implements|5 years ago|reply
Are Pakistani human rights different from the universal kind?

My viewpoint is that people should have freedom of religious conscience, and with that a large degree of moral relativism with certain bounds.

Given that, is it appropriate that a country interferes with the expressed sexuality of freely consenting adults? I don’t think so.

[+] iso8859-1|5 years ago|reply
They have, it is a representative democracy.
[+] bashwizard|5 years ago|reply
Maybe it's time for the rest of the civilized world to block Pakistan.
[+] aerodog|5 years ago|reply
With your implying a country of 200 million people is "uncivilized" (hate speech), perhaps it's more appropriate that HN blocks you?
[+] aerodog|5 years ago|reply
People have a traditional way of building family. The American way, i.e. via casual dating, often enhanced by apps, is experimental (barely a generation in) and not looking good for society's long-term stability.
[+] OneGuy123|5 years ago|reply
This.

The saddest thing is that children are the main casualty in divorces.

Single-parent raised children are known to have more issues/anxiety/etc... than children raised in a normal family.

[+] GaryNumanVevo|5 years ago|reply
What? Long-term relationships typically require two experienced partners who communicate well. Tinder is a super easy way to learn to get along with another person. Not to mention knowing one's sexual preferences make it much easier to find a long term partner.

Casual dating has been like this for a long time, not sure how Tinder makes it worse

[+] thefz|5 years ago|reply
Dating apps are not for building a family, I reckon. Nor their purpose is society's long-term stability.
[+] have_faith|5 years ago|reply
> not looking good for society's long-term stability

That's funny, I met my current long term partner on Tinder. Is there any indication that Tinder and related apps are anything other than an expression of an existing societal shift and not on the causal side of the relationship?

[+] Saint_Genet|5 years ago|reply
Man, this article really brought out the reactionaries in the comment section.
[+] ArkVark|5 years ago|reply
I'd welcome these applications being banned worldwide. Dating should be brought back to the real world: through friends, communities, family recommendations, and events.

The emphasis should be on finding a compatible mate, marriage, co-financing and procreation. Dating apps encourage endless hookups and destabilisation - this is their business model.

[+] Erlich_Bachman|5 years ago|reply
When your moral views are such that they require banning free apps (or free speech etc) and enforcing your views on other people, that's stops being a morality and starts being a tyranny.
[+] thefz|5 years ago|reply
> The emphasis should be on finding a compatible mate, marriage, co-financing and procreation.

Why?

[+] ponker|5 years ago|reply
I don't know about "immoral", but based on my younger acquaintances' experiences on Tinder, I believe that in the long-term it and its peer services will be seen as equally destructive to Facebook -- what Facebook did to interpersonal relationships/friendships Tinder will do to romantic/sexual relationships.

I think that the world will basically have to have a reckoning with "freedom," i.e. that technology has created the ability to build digital technologies that basically destroy the things we typically value. The companies in charge are too hyperoptimized and the average human is too underoptimized for this to be a fair fight... in the name of "engagement" Facebook can easily destroy the basic subfloor of politics in a representative democracy, and Tinder can destroy the basic subfloor of couplehood and family life.

[+] rkachowski|5 years ago|reply
Implicit here is the idea that couplehood and family life were more stable and somehow more resistent to damage before technology came along and made it easier for humans to interact.

An alternate theory is that Tinder actually reenforces the "basic subfloor of couplehood and family life" by enabling and normalising ephemeral sexual and romantic interaction, instead of requiring the individual to succumb to social pressure and enter marriage for reasons other than personal. This would be supported by the fact that divorce rates have been decreasing in the USA since the 90s.[1]

I agree that more attention needs to be directed towards the ill effects that technology can have on societal values, but the technology exposes and works upon impulses already within us. The things we value are incredibly relative and the ideas + images of friendship and family life we have now are drastically different from even 40 years ago.

(that is to say, views are always changing and the idea that "this new thing will destroy what we value" works in the exact same way that fm radio / home taping / digital piracy killed the musician + music industry so many years ago (i.e. it did not))

1. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/10/divorce-united-states...

[+] thefz|5 years ago|reply
> technologies that basically destroy the things we typically value

Thnings that YOU value - if supply of apps like Tinder exists is just because there is demand.

[+] baq|5 years ago|reply
this is assuming humans are destined to be couples and have nuclear families. this is not obvious even though it sort of works in the west.