Pretty sure the user is wrong about what caused this dialog. It was the recent Firefox update.
Firefox 80 added being a PDF reader as a Windows-selectable preference, as seen in this dialog. Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use.
While Edge getting a special category at the top is annoying, this showcases the uphill battle Microsoft faces, where they get blamed for the actions of other software and user stupidity on a regular basis, because people don't understand how Windows works, in general.
because people don't understand how Windows works, in general.
I'm not ready to absolve Microsoft of this blame, though. Yes, every operating system is a complex beast, and no single person comprehends it all. But Microsoft seems to have a particular fondness for non-transparency in all its machinations, whether it's pricing, licensing, telemetry, file formats, product usage documentation or even its APIs.
Not to mention that Microsoft is a repeat offender in this particular space, so I would probably have jumped to the same conclusion.
> Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use....While Edge getting a special category at the top is annoying, this showcases the uphill battle Microsoft faces, where they get blamed for the actions of other software and user stupidity on a regular basis, because people don't understand how Windows works, in general.
Edge getting a special category at the top is central to the problem. If Firefox 80 added a PDF reader and Windows is being so nice as to let you choose whether you want to use it instead of whatever you currently use, then in the list of PDF reader applications, a user should see it at the top (which will invite them to think "Hey cool, Firefox can now be used for PDFs!") so they are given a choice of sticking with their current thing, or choosing the shiny new capability that was just added.
If you force Edge to the top of your app preference screens, users are obviously going to see the update and go "Yep, that's Microsoft trying to force their crap on me again". Microsoft's well known behavior of forcing updates on the user has already given it a bad reputation in this regard, and has resulted in court cases in the past.
So yeah, it's not "user stupidity", it's the stupidity of whoever made the decision to promote Edge by shoving it in users' faces all the time including filetype handler updates.
As much as this is also annoying (and Microsoft trying to goad the user into setting Edge as the default), I would much rather this than programs being able to silently set defaults.
>because people don't understand how Windows works, in general.
But also because Microsoft aggressively pushed their browser for years. Even with their pitiable language "are you sure you don't want to try our new browser?". It's not just people misunderstanding, Microsoft actively did this throughout W10's lifetime
Indeed, Windows may not be perfect but most of issues reported by users seem to be caused by lack of knowledge or experience or some misbehaving third party app.
Every job I had where we used Windows 10 we had no issues and when there were issues, it was always caused by faulty hardware, crappy corporate bloatware or some misbehaving or poorly configured third party app.
I know it's fashionable on HN to hate microsoft and windows because of the "muh embrace, extend, extinguish and
candy crush" meme, but objectively they make a solid OS for consumers (optimus graphics switching works flawlessly on our laptops) and developers (WSL) considering the vast hardware combinations it has to run on.
> Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use.
I prefer the old system where individual apps begged users to use it as the default app for this or that filetype, and shut up if the user said no. If an app kept bothering the user to change (hello, every browser ever), that was the app's fault, not the platform's. Meanwhile, Windows dutifully kept sending the user to the default app.
Now that Windows has taken up the task of bothering the user, the responsibility for this annoying behavior is on Microsoft. They can and should be blamed for it.
I am so fed up with Windows changing my default program associations every week.
I set PDF to Adobe Reader. Next week it's back to #$%@ Edge again.
I set PNG, JPG to HyperSnap. Next week it's bloody Edge again.
I have written a script to reset the associations, but it does not work.
:: need double-% so it doesn't mistake it as a parameter of this batch file
ftype htmlfile="C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" "%%1"
ftype jpegfile="C:\Program Files\HyperSnap 8\HprSnap8.exe" "%%1"
ftype pngfile="C:\Program Files\HyperSnap 8\HprSnap8.exe" "%%1"
ftype AcroExch.Document.DC="C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Acrobat Reader DC\Reader\AcroRd32.exe" "%%1"
What's strange or new about this? A new program was installed to deal with PDFs so Windows asks if you want to use a different program for opening PDFs. I can do without the special treatment for Edge though, there's nothing that makes it special other than that you don't need to install Chrome on new Windows machines anymore.
From a technical standpoint, Edgium and Edge are significantly different. The migration to Edgium was actually surprisingly smooth, I've gotten Chrome updates that broke more spectacularly and that's the exact same browser.
As another comment here already suggested, there's a good chance this has nothing to do with Microsoft because Firefox registered itself as a PDF handler in the last major update.
I noticed this as well. Not only is it again asking me what browser I still prefer (still Firefox, thanks for asking), it shows it in a special category, at the top, and took the liberty to add itself to the bottom bar (next to the start button), without any questions asked. Just appeared after the update.
I thought Microsoft learnt it's lesson already with forcing people to use their browser, but seems not.
This is definitely not the right way to do it, but this is one of the very few ways to bring down Google's monopoly, in browser or search market share.
Keeping aside privacy issues, as and more data users feed to Bing, more powerful it can become.
Abusing your market position to bring down another entity is not the way. If Google is truly holding a monopoly, the lawmakers/enforcers need to fix this instead.
Microsoft basically gave up on "bringing down Google's monopoly" when they switched to using Google's browser as the foundation for their product, at least in the browser market.
I update my windows maybe once a year, or once every 2 years or so. I just got too tired of background network activity, and bad windows updates.
I also use my mobile hotspot due to my current living situation, so when gaming, network activity can be detrimental. Now I use simplewall by henry++ [0] to block all network activity (whitelist) - and my god it just works amazingly well. Can't recommend it enough. Easily blocks updates too, and even blocks edge, live.com, and linkedin, which I really don't care for!
" when of equal intensity, things of a more negative nature have a greater effect on one's psychological state and processes than neutral or positive things." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias
"Research indicates that at the subconscious level, the mind tends to focus on the optimistic; while at the conscious level, it tends to focus on the negative." -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna_principle
Windows update does a lot of things. Resets defaults, resets your Ethernet adapter settings, deletes partitions, makes the OS unbootable (tip: use Legacy BIOS mode instead of UEFI, it's more stable and actually fixable with recovery tools), and more.
If you're forced to use Windows, Microsoft takes it as you liking their superb OS, so you gotta live with it, let the hate boil, until you finally switch away forever.
All of this is a non-issue on LTSC, since all the updates are security-only. Regular Windows has "feature" updates every 6 months, which do what you described.
Same, I had a BSOD on every boot halfway through the Windows logo part of the process. I had to make a Windows flash drive with another computer and do a repair install to get my PC back. And the first thing I saw on the first successful boot was "Welcome to Edge!"
I was brought up in a Windows environment, from home to school to friends, it was pretty much everywhere. Now that we are so used to it do we realize how horrible Windows OS is, to give an example my Windows 10 continuously asks me to update and then when I try it fails. So I stopped doing it and then they came up with feature updates, the worst it automatically downloads itself even when I have blocked Windows Update service and then asks me to restart my computer to install it. If I leave my computer plugged in and locked which is part of any normal person's workflow, it will automatically restart and then try updating which it fails. No dialog box shows up telling the update failed, no reason why the update failed just that it failed. The cycle then continues again, I wish I could sue them so bad that they will start caring about this kind of stuff.
I have a similar issue on one of my laptops. Windows Update always fails to install those big updates. I think it's because it reboots into some sort of safe mode where power management isn't active, so the laptop quickly overheats and shuts down. My work around is to set the connection to metered so it doesn't automatically download those big updates. It's been working so far.
The M$ Edge PDF reader is a thing of beauty, IMO. I much prefer it to the Adobe Reader which is network challenged. Edge can still use the PDF when the windows share is offline.
To be fair - I do think this term is a better description, eg for the company desktop you are using, the pc you happen to be on in a library, at a friend’s place etc etc.
I would also think that from an ownership perspective, the number of Windows PCs owned by the individuals using them is going to be a minority (I’d love to find some numbers on this but do not think they are reported?)
I don't know why this is getting downvoted - it's an eagle-eyed spot of some subtle-but-important language being shifted, sneakily, right underneath us.
Amazing how a company as big as MS can influence cultural expectations and normative parameters through nothing but a tiny tweak in language.
[+] [-] ocdtrekkie|5 years ago|reply
Firefox 80 added being a PDF reader as a Windows-selectable preference, as seen in this dialog. Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use.
While Edge getting a special category at the top is annoying, this showcases the uphill battle Microsoft faces, where they get blamed for the actions of other software and user stupidity on a regular basis, because people don't understand how Windows works, in general.
[+] [-] tremon|5 years ago|reply
I'm not ready to absolve Microsoft of this blame, though. Yes, every operating system is a complex beast, and no single person comprehends it all. But Microsoft seems to have a particular fondness for non-transparency in all its machinations, whether it's pricing, licensing, telemetry, file formats, product usage documentation or even its APIs.
Not to mention that Microsoft is a repeat offender in this particular space, so I would probably have jumped to the same conclusion.
[+] [-] quadrifoliate|5 years ago|reply
Edge getting a special category at the top is central to the problem. If Firefox 80 added a PDF reader and Windows is being so nice as to let you choose whether you want to use it instead of whatever you currently use, then in the list of PDF reader applications, a user should see it at the top (which will invite them to think "Hey cool, Firefox can now be used for PDFs!") so they are given a choice of sticking with their current thing, or choosing the shiny new capability that was just added.
If you force Edge to the top of your app preference screens, users are obviously going to see the update and go "Yep, that's Microsoft trying to force their crap on me again". Microsoft's well known behavior of forcing updates on the user has already given it a bad reputation in this regard, and has resulted in court cases in the past.
So yeah, it's not "user stupidity", it's the stupidity of whoever made the decision to promote Edge by shoving it in users' faces all the time including filetype handler updates.
[+] [-] AMD_DRIVERS|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blackearl|5 years ago|reply
But also because Microsoft aggressively pushed their browser for years. Even with their pitiable language "are you sure you don't want to try our new browser?". It's not just people misunderstanding, Microsoft actively did this throughout W10's lifetime
[+] [-] andreareina|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckNorris89|5 years ago|reply
Every job I had where we used Windows 10 we had no issues and when there were issues, it was always caused by faulty hardware, crappy corporate bloatware or some misbehaving or poorly configured third party app.
I know it's fashionable on HN to hate microsoft and windows because of the "muh embrace, extend, extinguish and candy crush" meme, but objectively they make a solid OS for consumers (optimus graphics switching works flawlessly on our laptops) and developers (WSL) considering the vast hardware combinations it has to run on.
[+] [-] kijin|5 years ago|reply
I prefer the old system where individual apps begged users to use it as the default app for this or that filetype, and shut up if the user said no. If an app kept bothering the user to change (hello, every browser ever), that was the app's fault, not the platform's. Meanwhile, Windows dutifully kept sending the user to the default app.
Now that Windows has taken up the task of bothering the user, the responsibility for this annoying behavior is on Microsoft. They can and should be blamed for it.
[+] [-] vips7L|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arprocter|5 years ago|reply
A shortcut to Edge also magically appeared on the desktop
[+] [-] Stierlitz|5 years ago|reply
Explain like I'm five how a firefox update would set the default browser to EDGE ;]
[+] [-] ffpip|5 years ago|reply
Chrome is less noisy than Edge. When I opened the new Edge, requests were sent out to taboola.com , doubleclick.com, and other ad networks.
And who wants ads on the home page? It's so slow to load.
Instead of pushing it down out throats, if they say what is actually better, people will use it. Is it faster, more private, etc?
[+] [-] GnarfGnarf|5 years ago|reply
I set PDF to Adobe Reader. Next week it's back to #$%@ Edge again.
I set PNG, JPG to HyperSnap. Next week it's bloody Edge again.
I have written a script to reset the associations, but it does not work.
[+] [-] atraac|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MikusR|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jeroenhd|5 years ago|reply
From a technical standpoint, Edgium and Edge are significantly different. The migration to Edgium was actually surprisingly smooth, I've gotten Chrome updates that broke more spectacularly and that's the exact same browser.
As another comment here already suggested, there's a good chance this has nothing to do with Microsoft because Firefox registered itself as a PDF handler in the last major update.
[+] [-] capableweb|5 years ago|reply
I thought Microsoft learnt it's lesson already with forcing people to use their browser, but seems not.
[+] [-] anaganisk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] capableweb|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdbernard|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shanehoban|5 years ago|reply
I also use my mobile hotspot due to my current living situation, so when gaming, network activity can be detrimental. Now I use simplewall by henry++ [0] to block all network activity (whitelist) - and my god it just works amazingly well. Can't recommend it enough. Easily blocks updates too, and even blocks edge, live.com, and linkedin, which I really don't care for!
[1] https://github.com/henrypp/simplewall
[+] [-] dminvs|5 years ago|reply
I guess we're back to the old MSFT.
[+] [-] tasubotadas|5 years ago|reply
"Research indicates that at the subconscious level, the mind tends to focus on the optimistic; while at the conscious level, it tends to focus on the negative." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna_principle
[+] [-] ffpip|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bserge|5 years ago|reply
If you're forced to use Windows, Microsoft takes it as you liking their superb OS, so you gotta live with it, let the hate boil, until you finally switch away forever.
[+] [-] gruez|5 years ago|reply
All of this is a non-issue on LTSC, since all the updates are security-only. Regular Windows has "feature" updates every 6 months, which do what you described.
[+] [-] ShradhaSingh|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeifCarrotson|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] anaganisk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moksly|5 years ago|reply
Hell, I probably wouldn’t even know how for most things. Heh.
[+] [-] Ahmd72|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Narishma|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sys_64738|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sjg007|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pcdoodle|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andylynch|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] m_fayer|5 years ago|reply
Amazing how a company as big as MS can influence cultural expectations and normative parameters through nothing but a tiny tweak in language.
[+] [-] bserge|5 years ago|reply