I've tackled most of those with my cheap standing desk...although it's height is not easily adjustable. To switch things up, I have a futon with a lapboard in my office as well:
Thank you for the pointer to that ergonomic diagram - I hadn't thought about the requirement that the wrists be about level with your elbows, but it makes sense that you want to keep your wrists straight and avoid stress.
In my case I simply adjusted the height of the desktop and the monitor separately until it felt right and ended up with exactly what's in the diagram. But the various hacks I see aren't adjustable enough to take an experimental approach.
Desk hackers take note of the parent comment! Measure your elbow height and eye level and build accordingly!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a proper ergonomic standing desk have a bar or step to rest a foot for long-term activity?
Also, are you supposed to hold your elbows in that position for long periods of time? I feel like there should be an extension to rest the forearms or wrists.
I switched to a standing desk about six months ago. I started by piling a bunch of books on my desk and putting my laptop on top of them. Later I bought this:
It's a tolerably good desk, except that it's a bit small and, while it's veneered to look like plywood, it's actually made of pasteboard with a laminate veneer (that was a big disappointment when it arrived).
I would like to make my own soon, as I've been getting into woodworking, at which point I will probably sell or give the safeco away.
A few points about standing desks:
* You should be able to stand all day. At first you will get tired, of course. I found that muscles in my back, butt and thighs were getting very sore, but that goes away once they toughen up. For that reason, I don't particularly see the point in desks that convert from sitting to standing. It seems like that would just encourage people to start "cheating" and going back to sitting the moment they get a little tired.
* I tend to rock from foot to foot, kick my feet around, etc, while standing. A big part of the advantage of a standing desk is that you move around more, but if I were in an open-plan office I'd probably try to stand still, which would tire my feet out quickly and give me less of the movement advantage.
* You need good support for your feet. Either purchase very nice shoes or (like me) get something like this:
That mat made night-and-day difference for me. Had I not gotten it I would have given up on the desk, because standing all day on a wood floor (even in decent shoes) was starting to kill my feet.
* I also got this monitor stand and clamped it to the top of the safeco:
With it, my monitors are about a foot off the top of the desk, while the keyboard is at exactly the right height for my arms. Since I look straight forward all day long now, my posture has improved dramatically.
I entirely agree with you, excepting for your comment about shoes. In most circumstances, the best way to avoid foot problems is not to "buy better footware/orthotics" but rather to strengthen your feet.
If you are skeptical, look into the "minimalist" running movement. There is quite a bit of research which suggests that the human foot is itself a better support system than any external aid. The problem is that, living as most people do, their foot muscles have atrophied.
Regarding the feet, barefoot (on a gel mat) is about as good as it gets. But I've been running barefoot for two years now, so my opinion is biased.
Since switching to standup, I've almost ZERO back problems. Prior to this, I used to have serious back pain for two or three days at a time, several times a year.
If you are interested in ergonomics, don't use a laptop keyboard in your office; not on a desk, or on a chair on a desk.
There's simply no way to use the laptop keyboard, and have the screen at the right height.
Use the laptop to drive your big display, and connect your keyboard and mouse to it.
The ergonomics of a laptop alone are bad.
Its great to have a laptop for travelling, but if you care about your body, use a better setup for your office.
I didn't know "cool guys are coding standing these days". I had never even imagined much less heard of someone working in an office in a standing position. So I thought I was just crazy but did this myself some time ago.
I don't know why; I think I wanted to be in a natural, straight stance when coding instead of sitting in some semioptimal position. I'm 196cm tall so I have never really had a table and chair that was made to fit my measures. I've had various ergonomic tables but they just don't cut it for a man with my height.
I work from home and simply upgraded my working table myself. It is a nice wooden table with lathed legs that you could screw into the corners of the table top. I simply went to the hardware store, lost 30 euros and came back with a total of 480cm of lathed wood of the same diameter. And after a bit of sawing and drilling I had four 120cm pieces that I could replace the old legs with: total time one hour, including the trip.
I've adjusted the height a few centimeters since that so as to get the table truly optimal to my personal height and now I'm fine. I must say that was the best 30 euros I've ever spent, I already notice that my abdominal and back muscles are stronger, and I naturally revert to a better stance even when not at my desk.
And I haven't had any back problems from getting stuck in the same position for too long, since I constantly move around when standing at my desk.
It is cool, actually. (The table, not me necessarily.)
One problem with this setup is that your hands are not at elbow level.
You want a separate keyboard that you can put on a piece of wood or a book or whatever, so that the screen is level with your eyes (when in perfect posture) and the keyboard is level with or slightly below your elbows (when in perfect posture).
Google the Ikea Jerker desk. They discontinued the standup model - or rather the model that could be configured as such - but you'd probably be able to find one used on craigslist or ebay.
It is designed for this specifically, although it is big, so you need a good deal of space. I've been using one in my home office for about 7 years now.
The problem is not the position but the length working in the same position. Whatever position.
If you stand the whole day, your legs will suffer (ask people working in shops); in the long run you will have "heavy legs" issue. You may lower the effects with a proper setup of your bed (feet should be 2-4 cm higher).
The only real solution:
* A good physical activity: cardio + strengthening the muscle for "body protection".
* Streching all the muscle groups.
A while back I bought one of those "lap desk" things that you're supposed to use while you're sitting on a couch or a bed for supporting your laptop. I found that if I stuck it on a normal desk it was the perfect height, and even has a reading light, plenty of room for an external mouse and a place for me to put my coffee in the morning. Highly recommended... Here is the one I bought if anyone is interested:
It's a bit of a hack, and I was made fun of a fair amount around the office when I first started using it, but I like it a lot. I think I got mine on sale at the time for $19.95. It's certainly a more "elegant" solution than sticking a chair on top of a table, and doesn't require any woodworking skills.
I love working this way. My best coding is done barefoot and standing. As far as getting tired goes, in my experience it doesn't take long to adjust. Do be warned, however, that after you become accustomed to standing with good posture, it can be somewhat torturous to sit for extended periods of time.
The keyboard height isn't 100% optimal for my height though and it would be nice to have the monitor 1-2dm further back. Other than that, feels great when you have adjusted to standing up.
+ You can really feel your back muscles growing and getting stronger after a few weaks (at least if unexcercised before).
+ Now I can walk around from when I wake up to when I go to sleep without getting any aches. (Good for when you're shopping, touristing, hiking, going to conventions, conferences etc.)
+ My body posture is now way better, standing or sitting down.
- When I sit down and need to think a bit and look away from the computer that's what I do. When I'm standing up I find myself walking around aimlessly instead, and suddenly I'm in the kitchen grabbing something to eat. I would say my concentration is better when sitting down.
I've been standing for about two months now. The thing to keep in mind is that yes, it's an improvement over sitting for 8 hours straight, but not a "cure", or something that somehow will save us from the health-related problems of sitting for too long, if all we do now is just stand, also for too long.
Anyway, it's been mostly good for me but I've made adjustments. After a couple of times in which I worked for 12-14 hrs in a day, standing the whole time, mostly with locked knees and not really moving much, one morning I was surprised to look down and see my ankles swollen a bit. I ended up buying a cheap wooden stool, not comfortable for more than 20-30 minutes, so I can now take breaks from standing, sit for a little while then naturally gravitate back to the standing position once that becomes uncomfortable. The stool also conveniently has rests where I can put a leg or foot, then switch, etc. I was probably lucky to find one that is the right height so when I sit I retain the same vertical position in relation to the desk.
The criteria for this project was 1) Cheap 2) high enough to rest my elbows on, 3) large enough for all my gear, 4) Good looking enough to not embarrass my girlfriend.
I had something similar to the Adjusta Unit in the second link. It was very sturdy and high quality. The adjustable mechanism worked flawlessly. The only problem was the that the unit I purchased was designed to fit in a corner and was HUGE. It would take up far too much space in my current office.
I'm considering buying one since there's a big sale going on in april. (40% off with the key April2011 when you call to order.) If I do, I'll let you know what it's like.
[+] [-] jtemplestein|15 years ago|reply
Putting your laptop on a bunch of boxes puts a lot of strain on your arms. Of course this also doesn't work if you have a big display on your desk.
I'd be interested in hacking a standing desk that is
1) ergonomic
2) offers support for both laptops and big displays
3) has a usable keyboard drawer for both standing and sitting position
If all else fails we'll just make a living selling desks like that. (and no, geekdesk does not meet all requirements)
[1] http://www.infologix.com/images/usr/ergonomic-computer-cart....
[+] [-] elasticdog|15 years ago|reply
http://elasticdog.com/2011/01/shelf-made-standing-desk/
[+] [-] mikelward|15 years ago|reply
I spend most of my time in a Linux terminal, where the command I type appears at the bottom of the screen.
I figure that diagram assumes you're looking around the top third of the screen, so raise my monitor a bit higher than that.
[+] [-] Isamu|15 years ago|reply
In my case I simply adjusted the height of the desktop and the monitor separately until it felt right and ended up with exactly what's in the diagram. But the various hacks I see aren't adjustable enough to take an experimental approach.
Desk hackers take note of the parent comment! Measure your elbow height and eye level and build accordingly!
[+] [-] albedoa|15 years ago|reply
Also, are you supposed to hold your elbows in that position for long periods of time? I feel like there should be an extension to rest the forearms or wrists.
[+] [-] neuroelectronic|15 years ago|reply
48% less chance of dying of a heart attack!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100722102039.ht...
[+] [-] jordanb|15 years ago|reply
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MS70Z2/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp...
It's a tolerably good desk, except that it's a bit small and, while it's veneered to look like plywood, it's actually made of pasteboard with a laminate veneer (that was a big disappointment when it arrived).
I would like to make my own soon, as I've been getting into woodworking, at which point I will probably sell or give the safeco away.
A few points about standing desks:
* You should be able to stand all day. At first you will get tired, of course. I found that muscles in my back, butt and thighs were getting very sore, but that goes away once they toughen up. For that reason, I don't particularly see the point in desks that convert from sitting to standing. It seems like that would just encourage people to start "cheating" and going back to sitting the moment they get a little tired.
* I tend to rock from foot to foot, kick my feet around, etc, while standing. A big part of the advantage of a standing desk is that you move around more, but if I were in an open-plan office I'd probably try to stand still, which would tire my feet out quickly and give me less of the movement advantage.
* You need good support for your feet. Either purchase very nice shoes or (like me) get something like this:
http://www.americanfloormats.com/rejuvenator-anti-fatigue-ma...
That mat made night-and-day difference for me. Had I not gotten it I would have given up on the desk, because standing all day on a wood floor (even in decent shoes) was starting to kill my feet.
* I also got this monitor stand and clamped it to the top of the safeco:
http://www.amazon.com/Dual-Monitor-Stand-clamp-monitors/dp/B...
With it, my monitors are about a foot off the top of the desk, while the keyboard is at exactly the right height for my arms. Since I look straight forward all day long now, my posture has improved dramatically.
[+] [-] unignorant|15 years ago|reply
If you are skeptical, look into the "minimalist" running movement. There is quite a bit of research which suggests that the human foot is itself a better support system than any external aid. The problem is that, living as most people do, their foot muscles have atrophied.
I stand barefoot on hardwood all day long.
[+] [-] aedocw|15 years ago|reply
Regarding the feet, barefoot (on a gel mat) is about as good as it gets. But I've been running barefoot for two years now, so my opinion is biased.
Since switching to standup, I've almost ZERO back problems. Prior to this, I used to have serious back pain for two or three days at a time, several times a year.
[+] [-] feral|15 years ago|reply
There's simply no way to use the laptop keyboard, and have the screen at the right height.
Use the laptop to drive your big display, and connect your keyboard and mouse to it. The ergonomics of a laptop alone are bad. Its great to have a laptop for travelling, but if you care about your body, use a better setup for your office.
[+] [-] yason|15 years ago|reply
I don't know why; I think I wanted to be in a natural, straight stance when coding instead of sitting in some semioptimal position. I'm 196cm tall so I have never really had a table and chair that was made to fit my measures. I've had various ergonomic tables but they just don't cut it for a man with my height.
I work from home and simply upgraded my working table myself. It is a nice wooden table with lathed legs that you could screw into the corners of the table top. I simply went to the hardware store, lost 30 euros and came back with a total of 480cm of lathed wood of the same diameter. And after a bit of sawing and drilling I had four 120cm pieces that I could replace the old legs with: total time one hour, including the trip.
I've adjusted the height a few centimeters since that so as to get the table truly optimal to my personal height and now I'm fine. I must say that was the best 30 euros I've ever spent, I already notice that my abdominal and back muscles are stronger, and I naturally revert to a better stance even when not at my desk.
And I haven't had any back problems from getting stuck in the same position for too long, since I constantly move around when standing at my desk.
It is cool, actually. (The table, not me necessarily.)
[+] [-] crasshopper|15 years ago|reply
You want a separate keyboard that you can put on a piece of wood or a book or whatever, so that the screen is level with your eyes (when in perfect posture) and the keyboard is level with or slightly below your elbows (when in perfect posture).
[+] [-] gregschlom|15 years ago|reply
But my current setup works very well (pictured here: http://gregschlom.com/about)
I guess it's just a matter of finding the right height for your elbow.
[+] [-] run4yourlives|15 years ago|reply
It is designed for this specifically, although it is big, so you need a good deal of space. I've been using one in my home office for about 7 years now.
[+] [-] rationalbeaver|15 years ago|reply
I own one and enjoy it greatly.
[+] [-] boredguy8|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] llimllib|15 years ago|reply
They'll cut the wood for you, just measure before you buy.
[+] [-] larrik|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toto|15 years ago|reply
The problem is not the position but the length working in the same position. Whatever position.
If you stand the whole day, your legs will suffer (ask people working in shops); in the long run you will have "heavy legs" issue. You may lower the effects with a proper setup of your bed (feet should be 2-4 cm higher).
The only real solution: * A good physical activity: cardio + strengthening the muscle for "body protection". * Streching all the muscle groups.
[+] [-] tchock23|15 years ago|reply
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=17258877
It's a bit of a hack, and I was made fun of a fair amount around the office when I first started using it, but I like it a lot. I think I got mine on sale at the time for $19.95. It's certainly a more "elegant" solution than sticking a chair on top of a table, and doesn't require any woodworking skills.
[+] [-] createaccount94|15 years ago|reply
it is only $9.99
[+] [-] unignorant|15 years ago|reply
http://blog.ethanjfast.com/2010/08/on-standing-desks/
I love working this way. My best coding is done barefoot and standing. As far as getting tired goes, in my experience it doesn't take long to adjust. Do be warned, however, that after you become accustomed to standing with good posture, it can be somewhat torturous to sit for extended periods of time.
[+] [-] dalys|15 years ago|reply
The furniture is a piece of IKEA MALM. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70053924
The keyboard height isn't 100% optimal for my height though and it would be nice to have the monitor 1-2dm further back. Other than that, feels great when you have adjusted to standing up.
+ You can really feel your back muscles growing and getting stronger after a few weaks (at least if unexcercised before).
+ Now I can walk around from when I wake up to when I go to sleep without getting any aches. (Good for when you're shopping, touristing, hiking, going to conventions, conferences etc.)
+ My body posture is now way better, standing or sitting down.
- When I sit down and need to think a bit and look away from the computer that's what I do. When I'm standing up I find myself walking around aimlessly instead, and suddenly I'm in the kitchen grabbing something to eat. I would say my concentration is better when sitting down.
[+] [-] tremendo|15 years ago|reply
Anyway, it's been mostly good for me but I've made adjustments. After a couple of times in which I worked for 12-14 hrs in a day, standing the whole time, mostly with locked knees and not really moving much, one morning I was surprised to look down and see my ankles swollen a bit. I ended up buying a cheap wooden stool, not comfortable for more than 20-30 minutes, so I can now take breaks from standing, sit for a little while then naturally gravitate back to the standing position once that becomes uncomfortable. The stool also conveniently has rests where I can put a leg or foot, then switch, etc. I was probably lucky to find one that is the right height so when I sit I retain the same vertical position in relation to the desk.
[+] [-] petermarks|15 years ago|reply
http://petermarks.info/2011/04/11/the-spaceship-2-0/
The criteria for this project was 1) Cheap 2) high enough to rest my elbows on, 3) large enough for all my gear, 4) Good looking enough to not embarrass my girlfriend.
[+] [-] Semiapies|15 years ago|reply
http://www.anthro.com/computer-furniture.aspx?desk=elevate-a...
http://www.anthro.com/computer-furniture.aspx?desk=fit-adjus...
[+] [-] leejoramo|15 years ago|reply
I had something similar to the Adjusta Unit in the second link. It was very sturdy and high quality. The adjustable mechanism worked flawlessly. The only problem was the that the unit I purchased was designed to fit in a corner and was HUGE. It would take up far too much space in my current office.
[+] [-] moultano|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forkrulassail|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forkrulassail|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grannyg00se|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] networkjester|15 years ago|reply
http://www.ergotron.com/Products/Workstations/tabid/562/lang...
He likes it, but personally had to modify it a bit to raise the keyboard tray about 2"
Check them out or otherwise happy hacking! (which is good too :) )
[+] [-] mkhDev|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sbochins|15 years ago|reply