This is a presentation by Jared Mauch of how he managed to dig and build his own fiber network in his town without help of big telcos.
He shares his lessons learned (if you feel inclined to build your own) and details his expenses (it's not cheap, but not impossible either). It's a very informative and fun talk!
So this is not a case of somebody who had more enthusiasm than experience attempting to do a rural broadband project. This sort of thing does crop up commonly in attempts at rural WISP projects, where somebody who's never had 'enable' on the routers of any ASN decides to build their own ISP.
In this case it's somebody with the great depth and breadth of knowledge to do it, dissatisfied with their local status quo for residential last mile service, deciding to implement it themselves.
How much of this presentation could be applicable outside of the US? As in: How much of this is general knowledge that you can apply if you're trying to achieve the same goal and happen to be situated outside of the US?
Here in my 3rd world country, fiber is getting pretty common. Small ISPs just rent space on poles and lay the fiber to the extend that I can choose from 4 different fiber ISPs in my home.
It amazes me how difficult it seems to get the same in more developed places like US/Canada.
I once looked into running a fiber cable on poles for 2,000ft. It has to be done by certified professionals. I got quotes from $25,000 to $75,000. Just to hang a wire on what would probably be 20 wooden poles.
I recall reading somewhere where Australia has a system where the government owns/runs all the common network infrastructure, even to the home, as a for-profit entity and then allows any entity to rent and provide services on the shared infrastructure. This seems brilliant to me. I think its called https://www.nbnco.com.au/
It’s this way because of how regulated everything is. You have to jump through hoops to get permission to do anything here in the U.S. in other countries you just do it.
I feel that having fiber in big cities is a given nowadays. I don't think telcos have any plan on supporting those smaller remote towns with fiber. Maybe investment does not pay off in a reasonable amount of time.
Fiber may not be the only option though. Starlink should be becoming available soon in North America. Only time will tell if that will work out though. WiMax, for example, was a failed hard.
Go look at the isps doing last mile FTTH with $700 splicers and roof to roof fiber in central Rawalpindi, Pakistan for instance. The USA or Canadian construction methods are much more organized and engineered, but also costlier.
It only amazes if you think everything in first world has to better than third world. And IMO it is about as immature as first worlder who thinks that everything in third world has to be crap.
There are some Facebook groups around with folks doing this kind of thing. The one I follow is "WISPs turned FISPs" with lots of folks building FTTH networks on small scales. (not sure how to link directly to a FB group.)
Also shameless plug for my website startyourownisp.com which has a similar theme.
Cool sutff, I wish I had the capital to do something like this. Although given how hard the existing ISPs are fighting against municipal internet here I wonder how I'd fare.
Just watched most of the video, and holy crap, this is super cool. Jared got frustrated by the (very slow) internet options available to him, and started his own isp to solve the problem for him and his neighbors.
A few years back I knew a guy who built a network for a few neighbors South of Ann Arbor. I was on some discussion group and just coincidentally CmdrTaco was complaining about his poor internet access South of Ann Arbor. Chimed in to provide an introduction to my friend and together they expanded the network.
Wish East Lansing had all the independent efforts that Ann Arbor does. Been trying to get fiber here for ten years, none of the local providers will come out to the suburbs ;<(.
1) He showed that he can achieve 700ish Mbit/s at his place. Does it mean that the 20 subscribers of his service are sharing this? If he wants to increase the overall throughput does he have to place more fiber cables?
2) Did he use any sort of repeaters to deal with the attenuation of the signal?
I believe he said he's paying for 1.5 Gbps capacity over a 10 Gbps uplink (though it's currently only set at 1 Gbps and needs to be fixed). So the maximum shared bandwidth is 1.5 Gbps, but he has physical headroom if he needs more.
in the video Jared said he's 25 years in the industry. This being nlnog, I guess in networking, one layer above the physical? good mechanical engineering skills also helped with building an diy conduit blower for the fibre cables.
The thing I most wonder about if you start to be a service provider and need to provide ongoing connectivity - you need a backup plan for when you're out of town.
This is inspiring. Its amazing that he was able to bust this out for his community. Its mind blowing the amount of perserverance.
I really want to break free from my job and build something of my own. Like this. Really inspiring to see someone that had a metaphorical mountain between them and a goal, push through. I cant imagine anything I will be doing, will be nearly as problem ridden as this project.
Shows what confronting one problem at a time, and not giving up, can result in.
What happens when Jared sells his home or has to move? Everyone has fiber wired into his basement for connectivity. Would the new homeowner be obligated to continue running this?
Personally if I were a neighbor I'd still sign up with this risk given the ISP options available, but would still be a concern. Your Internet service and home value depend on this guy keeping things running "forever".
Most likely, the equipment would move to a community owned and maintained equipment enclosure/shed. This is a worn path for coops and other endeavors like this where residents go in to buy a DSL DSLAM and pull fiber to it, with the "last mile" being copper runs.
@jaredmauch Would you still have considered doing this today with Starlink now happening?
I stopped the video once the interviewer portion started but how does someone justify $125-150k investment to become an ISP? I'd maybe consider this if I owned a large chunk of land out there and planned to sell it and then sell the internet subscriptions to individuals who build there.
I basically don't know much about the nitty gritty of network engineering but this was very satisfying to watch. Especially the anecdote he shared of a customer going "holly, molly" after he started using this service. Very nice.
On youtube, you can click on the ... and click the "open transcript" link to access an auto generated transcript. Haven't checked the transcript of this video, but in general they've become quite good over the years.
I ran short distances (like my private road, or driveway crossings/private property runs under trees) with it. It has a reach of around 150-200' and is not suitable for a large project like mine that was 12-14k feet.
It's a great little drill, but I've also spent a fair amount on parts and pieces to keep it running. Nothing too expensive (except the rubber tracks, those are around $500 to replace, did one in 2019 and the other in 2020). I purchased a new locate wand as well, which was over 5k which works better with the beacon than the older one.
If you need to go a short distance it's a good tool, small enough i can move it with a F250.
Interesting, he was able to subsidize nearly 67% of the $126,710 through the 17 pre-orders he received. Probably could have built the entire project with zero out of pocket expenses if it was a more dense area (or at least had a higher signup rate than 30%).
Although, now that it is built what’s the process for hooking up new subscribers? Wouldn’t he have to hire more contractors to bore out lines and hook up the fiber to each home? The cost of acquiring a customer would appear to be astronomical.
- Costs exceeded $126k by far. More like $150k in direct costs plus all the free labor Jared put in. This project has taken literally years of his life and all his spare time lately.
- Pre-orders were more than 17. 17 is the number of subscribers already hooked up.
- Take rate wasn't 30%, it was 70% along the route.
- Customers were, at least partially, pre-installed, so not all will require new construction. Jared also does a lot of the work himself without contractors. He also owns/has access to a chain trencher and a directional bore.
- customer acquisition costs do not traditionally factor in the cost of building drops. These are usually accounted for separately. Obviously construction costs time and/or money.
@jaredmauch Can you share more details on becoming a telco? Did it have other upsides/downsides than easier access to the public right of way? Does being a CLEC have benefits not extended to a BIAS (Broadband Internet Access Provider) as defined by the FCC?
I'm attempting the same thing in red bluff California. Forced to start my own ISP because the other service options suck. Got on a zayo ila site and now it's time to learn how to dig fiber.
[+] [-] janvdberg|5 years ago|reply
He shares his lessons learned (if you feel inclined to build your own) and details his expenses (it's not cheap, but not impossible either). It's a very informative and fun talk!
[+] [-] hn_check|5 years ago|reply
Great initiative and project, with a wonderful outcome. This is great HN material.
[+] [-] walrus01|5 years ago|reply
https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&q=jared+mauch+akama...
So this is not a case of somebody who had more enthusiasm than experience attempting to do a rural broadband project. This sort of thing does crop up commonly in attempts at rural WISP projects, where somebody who's never had 'enable' on the routers of any ASN decides to build their own ISP.
In this case it's somebody with the great depth and breadth of knowledge to do it, dissatisfied with their local status quo for residential last mile service, deciding to implement it themselves.
[+] [-] justaj|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaredmauch|5 years ago|reply
https://nlnog.net/static/live/nlnog_live_sep_2020_jared.pdf
[+] [-] albertop|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nodesocket|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] interrupt_|5 years ago|reply
It amazes me how difficult it seems to get the same in more developed places like US/Canada.
[+] [-] xhrpost|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dangerboysteve|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrishacken|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sonicggg|5 years ago|reply
I feel that having fiber in big cities is a given nowadays. I don't think telcos have any plan on supporting those smaller remote towns with fiber. Maybe investment does not pay off in a reasonable amount of time.
Fiber may not be the only option though. Starlink should be becoming available soon in North America. Only time will tell if that will work out though. WiMax, for example, was a failed hard.
[+] [-] walrus01|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jpollock|5 years ago|reply
That prevents new entrants.
[+] [-] geodel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philjohn|5 years ago|reply
Their secret sauce was getting farmers to dig trenches for fibre conduits across their farmland, in return for getting the service.
[+] [-] grahamburger|5 years ago|reply
Also shameless plug for my website startyourownisp.com which has a similar theme.
[+] [-] jaredmauch|5 years ago|reply
https://nlnog.net/static/live/nlnog_live_sep_2020_jared.pdf
[+] [-] non-entity|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xur17|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmason|5 years ago|reply
Wish East Lansing had all the independent efforts that Ann Arbor does. Been trying to get fiber here for ten years, none of the local providers will come out to the suburbs ;<(.
[+] [-] jaredmauch|5 years ago|reply
Lightspeed - I forget who bought them maybe MEC.
Try them
[+] [-] whatever1|5 years ago|reply
1) He showed that he can achieve 700ish Mbit/s at his place. Does it mean that the 20 subscribers of his service are sharing this? If he wants to increase the overall throughput does he have to place more fiber cables?
2) Did he use any sort of repeaters to deal with the attenuation of the signal?
[+] [-] jjeaff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mayoff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flas9sd|5 years ago|reply
The thing I most wonder about if you start to be a service provider and need to provide ongoing connectivity - you need a backup plan for when you're out of town.
[+] [-] jordan801|5 years ago|reply
I really want to break free from my job and build something of my own. Like this. Really inspiring to see someone that had a metaphorical mountain between them and a goal, push through. I cant imagine anything I will be doing, will be nearly as problem ridden as this project.
Shows what confronting one problem at a time, and not giving up, can result in.
[+] [-] treesknees|5 years ago|reply
Personally if I were a neighbor I'd still sign up with this risk given the ISP options available, but would still be a concern. Your Internet service and home value depend on this guy keeping things running "forever".
[+] [-] toomuchtodo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ckdarby|5 years ago|reply
I stopped the video once the interviewer portion started but how does someone justify $125-150k investment to become an ISP? I'd maybe consider this if I owned a large chunk of land out there and planned to sell it and then sell the internet subscriptions to individuals who build there.
[+] [-] jaredmauch|5 years ago|reply
I'm also in a position to offer much higher speeds when I need to upgrade. Projections put that out after month 60 when I need more bandwidth.
[+] [-] noisy_boy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdashg|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] recursive|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] est31|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bbunix|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alyx|5 years ago|reply
- Guy wants faster internet but doesn't want to move because moving means paying sales commission
- Guy starts ISP and lays fiber, incurring +$126K expenses, now has fast internet
[+] [-] iptrans|5 years ago|reply
Did you personally run the machine or did you have a contractor do it for you?
What's your view on the JT820? Any problems? Or did all go well?
[+] [-] jaredmauch|5 years ago|reply
It's a great little drill, but I've also spent a fair amount on parts and pieces to keep it running. Nothing too expensive (except the rubber tracks, those are around $500 to replace, did one in 2019 and the other in 2020). I purchased a new locate wand as well, which was over 5k which works better with the beacon than the older one.
If you need to go a short distance it's a good tool, small enough i can move it with a F250.
[+] [-] xyst|5 years ago|reply
Although, now that it is built what’s the process for hooking up new subscribers? Wouldn’t he have to hire more contractors to bore out lines and hook up the fiber to each home? The cost of acquiring a customer would appear to be astronomical.
[+] [-] iptrans|5 years ago|reply
- Costs exceeded $126k by far. More like $150k in direct costs plus all the free labor Jared put in. This project has taken literally years of his life and all his spare time lately.
- Pre-orders were more than 17. 17 is the number of subscribers already hooked up.
- Take rate wasn't 30%, it was 70% along the route.
- Customers were, at least partially, pre-installed, so not all will require new construction. Jared also does a lot of the work himself without contractors. He also owns/has access to a chain trencher and a directional bore.
- customer acquisition costs do not traditionally factor in the cost of building drops. These are usually accounted for separately. Obviously construction costs time and/or money.
[+] [-] iptrans|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gonesilent|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notJim|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coronadisaster|5 years ago|reply