Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately.
Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there.
Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in.
E.g. your amount of thrash you can dispose per month is highly regulated, via communal key-card opened dumpsters. Once you’ve reached your threshold, the dumpsters stay closed. If you ever where to forget, say, your toddlers diapers you have two options:
Enjoy the smell for the remaining time period or brace for the walk of shame of asking your neighbors to forgive your sin, alleviate your family from the smell and selflessly take in your diapers. Rest assured that this selflessness will at least come with an inquiry of why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place.
Alas, people who are annoyed by this leave, with the share of those who think such behavior is ok ever increases.
> Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately.
That's quite possibly the most American response you could provide. Though Germans value their cars (sometimes more than their wives), German society is quite focused on public transport and the availability thereof.
Furthermore, distancing ourselves from personal cars is among one of the best things we can do for the environment. We are experiencing the effects of car ownership right now with bad air / smog, traffic jams, noise and (very avoidable) accidents. Engines might have heralded a new age and while cars do represent transportational freedom, it's time we move away from them if we want to exist in a livable world.
I think such behaviour is ok, but that’s because I feel that is what it means to be socially invested. But I also recognize that for other countries this might seem restrictive or weird (as in why would you do that?)
In practice, and I currently live in a socially cohesive neighborhood, in practice it is just very laidback and it’s about helping eachother out and live and let live.
It would make sense to take special considerations into account, such that e.g., families with babies have a higher garbage quota than others.
Where I live, the town actually implements a variation of this: if you have a child under 3, you can apply for a "diaper subsidy" to your garbage fee, offered by the town, because they assume that you will need more bins emptied than other households (in general, you pay for how many times your bin gets emptied).
>E.g. your amount of thrash you can dispose per month is highly regulated, via communal key-card opened dumpsters. Once you’ve reached your threshold, the dumpsters stay closed.
Do you have any source for that? I find it fascinating, but was not able to find any link about this, only that the student dorm does not have "bio"-dumpsters for compostable garbage.
It's a cultural thing. Some people can't imagine living wihout a car, others can't imagine using disposable diapers, others can't imagine not forcing women to wear a veil. Or, for example, is your trash production a private affair, or is it a communal responsibility, subject to scrutiny?
If you're flexible you can set up your outlook however you think is best. And there are of course prevailing mindsets, depending on where you are. For me, Vauban seems closer to ideal than a lot of other places.
I think often people, who find themselves closer to mainstream, find themselves judged, or fearing judgment, from the marginal "progressives" (and vice versa). I think it's normal for this mainstream-marginal tension to exist, and it's independent of whatever the distinguishing opinions are. If the tension is getting bad, it's just a symptom of people having trouble socialising; capacity for variety is a major societal health indicator. Doesn't really say anything about the actual topics discussed, like eco-friendliness in this case.
You know, from the community's perspective, your comment could come off as incredibly self-centered and entitled. Why is it the community's responsibility to dispose of endless amounts of waste that you and your little poop monsters produce? All of those services require the community to do work for you.
The social contract is more maleable than you realize. I am not sure you want to accept that it can be renegotiated because like most of us, you've accepted an entire lifetime's worth of Western programming telling you you get to do whatever you want and everybody else has got to just deal with it, and if they have a problem with that then it's some kind of horrible encroachment.
But the reality is that people have always lived in communities that have a delicately negotiated social contract and ways of shaming, shunning, and even ex-communicating individuals who don't conform. The social contract is a negotiation, not your absolute right to do whatever you want and have people clean up after you.
> Alas, people who are annoyed by this leave.
I'd say that's WAI. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun to live there. So don't. I probably wouldn't either. But TBH it's not a lot of fun to live next to trash monkeys and junk hoarders, and communities absolutely do kick such people out.
Freiburg is a super nice place as long as you've got disposable income to spend to live in one of the preferred quarters, like Wiehre, Herdern, etc. If you don't, then like in many south-German cities (located in mountain valleys where space is scarce), you're living in a place without any green in sight (ok Freiburg's Stühlinger is quite green, and still affordable, though I'm guessing it's been getting more expensive in recent years).
The problem with living in Vauban-style high-tech houses with photovoltaics, ground energy, etc. is the cost of maintenance, or finding people for maintenance in the first place. We really only can tell something about sustainability
towards the end of life of polystyrole or mineral wool walls (30 years?).
I live in Austria and it's the same. Houses in the urban forests are really picturesque and a marker for high quality of life but unless you're a 10%er millionaire they're out of reach. Everyone else is cramped in concrete blocks but of course, that's rarely shown in photos or articles.
I am writing this from my room in Wiehre right now, for which I pay 300 euro per month. Ok, it's a room in a flat I share with 3 flatmates, not everybody wants to live like this, but still, even Wiehre and Herdern are hardly quarters only for the super rich.
Additionally Freiburg is so small that you can be pretty much anywhere within 15 minutes by bike, it really does not matter so much which quarter you live in.
> If you don't, then like in many south-German cities (located in mountain valleys where space is scarce), you're living in a place without any green in sight
While this is generally true, the newer districts like Vauban also feature city-owned housing that is specifically targeted to be rented by lower-income families. If you're a student there are again lots of options all throughout the city.
Nice to see my neighborhood (Vauban) featured here :) It's an awesome place to raise kids as it provides an almost village-like environment, being right at the edge of the city and hence the edge of the black forest. But it also comes with the immediate benefits of a nearby regional hub and with plenty of next-door daycare/kindergarten institutions, playgrounds and a ton of other kids. This was one of the main factors that made us move back here after two years in SF.
As elsewhere, affordable, or even available housing is now an issue, in particular for families. Prices have been on a sharp increase over the last years, and although the there's quite some construction (and plans to add a whole new district) it's not keeping up with demand.
Not ITT: The obvious topic of crime in Freiburg. OK, in 2019 the lost the lead of city with most crimes per 100.000 inhabitants. But Freiburg still scored 3rd place. Freiburg has many faces and the linked article is a very selective subset of what Freiburg is. Don't be fooled.
According to [1] it placed 13th (of 40) last year with 9.798 crimes/100k inhabitants. According to [2] it was 9th in 2018.
Combining the two ([2]also lists the safest 10 cities) I question the impact for the lower parts of that list, as the difference in absolute numbers for the lower "safe" cities and the lower "dangerous" cities is quite low.
Consider Baden then, my backyard was facing the Black Forrest, I could see what appeared to be a skiing slope lift and on clear day you could see castle from my room and when I was working outdoors. It's my favorite part of Baden-Wuttenberg and of all Germany really. But, as someone above mentioned its rather expensive, not Switzerland expensive, but still pretty expensive.
The recent Netflix series Biohackers [1] was essentially just one big promo for Freiburg, perhaps trying to compete with Berlin in 'coolness' factor for Gen Z?
400km of bike trails is an insane amount for a small town, assuming they aren’t counting bike lanes. I doubt any of the 1M+ pop cities I’ve lived in came anywhere close to that in bike or MUTs.
In spite of the obvious conclusion that the rights of pedestrians have won out over cars in Freiburg, the lasting memory I have of my visit is of people waiting obediently on the kerb of an entirely empty road because the green light to cross hadn't come on yet
I found it interesting that an article on a city is chock full of photos but only one has an easily discernible person, and they are a bike rider in the distance with their face blurred. In the photography architecture is preeminent over people.
I lost interest in the city as soon as the article pointed out that the city's "environmentalism" was rooted in opposition to a nuclear power plant. This kind of thinking is backwards and self-destructive.
[+] [-] woodpanel|5 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there.
Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in.
E.g. your amount of thrash you can dispose per month is highly regulated, via communal key-card opened dumpsters. Once you’ve reached your threshold, the dumpsters stay closed. If you ever where to forget, say, your toddlers diapers you have two options:
Enjoy the smell for the remaining time period or brace for the walk of shame of asking your neighbors to forgive your sin, alleviate your family from the smell and selflessly take in your diapers. Rest assured that this selflessness will at least come with an inquiry of why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place.
Alas, people who are annoyed by this leave, with the share of those who think such behavior is ok ever increases.
[+] [-] LockAndLol|5 years ago|reply
That's quite possibly the most American response you could provide. Though Germans value their cars (sometimes more than their wives), German society is quite focused on public transport and the availability thereof.
Furthermore, distancing ourselves from personal cars is among one of the best things we can do for the environment. We are experiencing the effects of car ownership right now with bad air / smog, traffic jams, noise and (very avoidable) accidents. Engines might have heralded a new age and while cars do represent transportational freedom, it's time we move away from them if we want to exist in a livable world.
[+] [-] prox|5 years ago|reply
In practice, and I currently live in a socially cohesive neighborhood, in practice it is just very laidback and it’s about helping eachother out and live and let live.
[+] [-] kleiba|5 years ago|reply
Where I live, the town actually implements a variation of this: if you have a child under 3, you can apply for a "diaper subsidy" to your garbage fee, offered by the town, because they assume that you will need more bins emptied than other households (in general, you pay for how many times your bin gets emptied).
[+] [-] Fishysoup|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atesti|5 years ago|reply
Do you have any source for that? I find it fascinating, but was not able to find any link about this, only that the student dorm does not have "bio"-dumpsters for compostable garbage.
[+] [-] dmos62|5 years ago|reply
If you're flexible you can set up your outlook however you think is best. And there are of course prevailing mindsets, depending on where you are. For me, Vauban seems closer to ideal than a lot of other places.
I think often people, who find themselves closer to mainstream, find themselves judged, or fearing judgment, from the marginal "progressives" (and vice versa). I think it's normal for this mainstream-marginal tension to exist, and it's independent of whatever the distinguishing opinions are. If the tension is getting bad, it's just a symptom of people having trouble socialising; capacity for variety is a major societal health indicator. Doesn't really say anything about the actual topics discussed, like eco-friendliness in this case.
[+] [-] titzer|5 years ago|reply
You know, from the community's perspective, your comment could come off as incredibly self-centered and entitled. Why is it the community's responsibility to dispose of endless amounts of waste that you and your little poop monsters produce? All of those services require the community to do work for you.
The social contract is more maleable than you realize. I am not sure you want to accept that it can be renegotiated because like most of us, you've accepted an entire lifetime's worth of Western programming telling you you get to do whatever you want and everybody else has got to just deal with it, and if they have a problem with that then it's some kind of horrible encroachment.
But the reality is that people have always lived in communities that have a delicately negotiated social contract and ways of shaming, shunning, and even ex-communicating individuals who don't conform. The social contract is a negotiation, not your absolute right to do whatever you want and have people clean up after you.
> Alas, people who are annoyed by this leave.
I'd say that's WAI. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun to live there. So don't. I probably wouldn't either. But TBH it's not a lot of fun to live next to trash monkeys and junk hoarders, and communities absolutely do kick such people out.
[+] [-] tannhaeuser|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckNorris89|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mudita|5 years ago|reply
Additionally Freiburg is so small that you can be pretty much anywhere within 15 minutes by bike, it really does not matter so much which quarter you live in.
[+] [-] jgehring|5 years ago|reply
While this is generally true, the newer districts like Vauban also feature city-owned housing that is specifically targeted to be rented by lower-income families. If you're a student there are again lots of options all throughout the city.
[+] [-] Fnoord|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thelastinuit|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rfreiberger|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jgehring|5 years ago|reply
As elsewhere, affordable, or even available housing is now an issue, in particular for families. Prices have been on a sharp increase over the last years, and although the there's quite some construction (and plans to add a whole new district) it's not keeping up with demand.
[+] [-] danrl|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ketzu|5 years ago|reply
Combining the two ([2]also lists the safest 10 cities) I question the impact for the lower parts of that list, as the difference in absolute numbers for the lower "safe" cities and the lower "dangerous" cities is quite low.
[1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/200790/umfrag...
[2] https://www.allianzdirect.de/hausratversicherung/gefaehrlich...
Note: [1] switched from public to premium staitstic for me when opening it for a second and third time...
[+] [-] iforgotpassword|5 years ago|reply
According to stats from 2018 it was only number one in Baden-Wurttemberg, not even all of Germany.
https://www.chilli-freiburg.de/stadtgeplauder/politik-wirtsc...
It still seems to be relatively safe.
[+] [-] oh_sigh|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codr7|5 years ago|reply
It was very nice to have the Black Forest right around the corner but the city had an icky hipster vibe from my experience.
[+] [-] Melting_Harps|5 years ago|reply
The recent Netflix series Biohackers [1] was essentially just one big promo for Freiburg, perhaps trying to compete with Berlin in 'coolness' factor for Gen Z?
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHBOUvgBI8
[+] [-] brailsafe|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raindropm|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] porknubbins|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alimw|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Fooloo|5 years ago|reply
This resembles student life in that city quite good except the fucking housing market. Where it is really a pain to find an affordable shared flat.
[+] [-] nicky0|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] valuearb|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mdale|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] turing_complete|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kkdsafjid|5 years ago|reply
They have some bicycles and some solar cells, and the major is from the leftist Green party.
[+] [-] CharlesMerriam2|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gautamcgoel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ornornor|5 years ago|reply
A good question indeed?
[+] [-] baybal2|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Ericson2314|5 years ago|reply
Ban those cars!