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433% Keyboard

139 points| salmon | 5 years ago |relivesight.com

130 comments

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ardy42|5 years ago

All of the images are now offline (some google drive traffic limit?), but the internet archive managed to capture one:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200916174120/https://relivesig...

The image itself: https://web.archive.org/web/20200916210058/https://doc-14-a0...

mey|5 years ago

I like that there is still an elgato stream deck above the keyboard because there isn't enough inputs to map.

moron4hire|5 years ago

Is this a troll? I mean, why make a custom keyboard with even one pause/break key, let alone... Three?

autocorr|5 years ago

For some context, this project was basically made to one up someone else, so it's not fully serious. Part of what makes the keyboard funny though is that (a niche of) the custom mechanical keyboard scene has been moving to many fewer keys and programming the firmware to compensate. So it's pretty funny going from seeing several Planck ~49 key layouts to seeing this gargantuan 450 key absolute unit.

Sincerely typed by someone on a 44 key layout :)

codezero|5 years ago

Is it an Atreus? How do you like that size of keyboard? I'm not too bothered about adopting some chords, but more interested in the general ergonomics / RSI risks.

m463|5 years ago

I think a better layout might be like an organist, where you have different levels.

sort of like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Frederik...

And they even have keys (modifier keys?) for their feet. They left that off the table (so to speak)

hmm... and maybe some sort of suspension system for your arms, so your arms could float over the keyboard sort of like monitor arms keep your monitor suspended in place but allow movement.

kevin_thibedeau|5 years ago

Or go full Chinese typewriter and have a 2-axis cursor that you position over a tray of glyphs.

jcrawfordor|5 years ago

I regularly use what I call a "140% keyboard" which has a total of 140 keys. This is the regular 104-key layout with added keys in various places such as between the alphanumeric and F key section, filling the gaps between cursor keys and the block above it, etc. The keyboard has on-board macro programming and multi-layer logic.

I use it for things like having keys which jump directly to specific windows, keys which open various terminal types, and even macros for some common commands (Git operations for example).

I don't know that there's any good reason why this isn't more popular other than fashion, which means that an industry has not really built up around plus-sized keyboards like it has around smaller ones. My example was purchased used and was formerly used at a telephone operator's workstation, based on the key legends. There is a fairly robust used market for plus-sized keyboards originally used for specialty applications, mostly POS and dispatchers/radio operators, from companies like PrehKeyTec and Cherry (of the switches). Unfortunately they mostly cost $500+ new and still often demand over $100 used. The majority of these keyboards feature on-board macro programming, but are intended to be programmed in bulk by the vendor of some turnkey solution so the programming tools are a bit awkward (for me, use a GUI keymap editor, export a file, use a command line tool to flash the generated file to the keyboard - I think it actually just produces a full firmware image each time).

The only real disadvantage I would report is that the PrehKeyTecs are made with dome switches that feel decidedly mushy when they're old (and my used model is probably around a decade old). The Cherries use mechanical switches, of course, but tend to be more expensive and aren't made in as interesting of configurations IMO.

mindslight|5 years ago

Do you happen to have a picture of the layout? I too wish for a keyboard with more keys, especially vertically. But besides an extra row or two of F-keys, I haven't come up with any logical extensions.

c0nsumer|5 years ago

This is pretty interesting, but it'd be great if the author explained their reason for building such a large keyboard... even if it's just "for reasons".

thkoli|5 years ago

this was also posted on r/MechanicalKeyboards and the reason behind it was something like “I made a 128 keys keyboard, someone else made a bigger keyboard so I had to retaliate”

notatoad|5 years ago

from the "Completed Projects" list on the sidebar, it looks like just a guy who enjoys making ridiculous keyboards.

gameswithgo|5 years ago

Gotta be vim or dwarf fortress

notRobot|5 years ago

Is it just me or is the text on the webpage completely unreadable with that font and shadow effect?

Markoff|5 years ago

agreed, immediately closed, not sure why they bother with writing something if obviously they don't care if anyone reads it with choosing font/effect like this

reb|5 years ago

Definitely not just you. Instant migraine trigger over here.

croddin|5 years ago

If my math is right, a keyboard with every currently defined Unicode character would only be about 16 feet by 16 feet. Someone should make one.

JazzXP|5 years ago

Not quite that, but Tom Scott did an Emoji Keyboard that was spread across 3 or 4 keyboards.

russellbeattie|5 years ago

Two thoughts:

1) For some reason this thing gives me joy. Imagine sitting at work in front of one of these bad boy keyboards! You'd never get interrupted! People would assume you're running a battleship remotely or something!

2) It seems very Soviet. Or at least very 80s Anime - this is the keyboard we should all be using, only each key should light up in disco colors.

knaq|5 years ago

That's a surprise. I was expecting keys 433% as large as ordinary ones. It could be for a person who types with feet, arm stumps, or elbows. It could be for a person in protective gear. It could be for a trained animal. It could be for entertainment, such as by hitting the keys from a distance to win a carnival prize.

KajMagnus|5 years ago

This could be useful for pair programming?

codetrotter|5 years ago

You might even be able to fit a whole octet of programmers around a keyboard of that size.

All working together casting arcane spells with the aid of the keyboard.

Dialects of programming languages so old and obscure that even Cthulhu himself would flinch at the sight upon such seeing.

myself248|5 years ago

I'm picturing piano-four-hands...

na85|5 years ago

So can you just bind arbitrary keys to arbitrary characters? Aren't there a limited number of codes (scan codes?) that the keyboard will send out?

jrockway|5 years ago

There are a limited number of scancodes; defined by the USB standard. The annoying thing for keyboards is that the OS controls what scancode maps to what character and that makes it impossible to have certain keys.

For example, you can't have an ! key. That is always Shift+1 (with a US layout, that is). QMK and other firmwares will let you make an ! key, but it's implemented by pressing shift, then pressing 1. So you could never make a keyboard shortcut that is Shift+! even though you can press that on your keyboard. The OS wouldn't be able to tell the difference between than and Shift+1. As a corollary, you couldn't rebind your keyboard such that Shift+1 outputs @ instead of !.

It's really just a classic case of bad abstraction. All the keyboard hardware does is scan rows and see which columns are also active. That gives you a grid position like (1,2) for "w". It is then forced to translate that to a scancode that it sends to the computer. The computer then sees that scancode and translates it to a letter. Obviously, things would be easier to program if the keyboard just emitted characters, or the OS just read key matrix grid positions. (In the first case, your X key would always be X, no matter what. Annoying for laptop users that want to use Dvorak, of course. In the second case, things like QMK wouldn't need to exist, you could just write a normal program running on your computer to add layers, shifting, tap dances, etc.)

The end result is that everything sucks. Isn't it always?

dijit|5 years ago

maybe I missed it in the article, though I read through it twice.. Why do this?

tanseydavid|5 years ago

The creative instinct must be satisfied...

ecpottinger|5 years ago

Read the same, asked the same question, WHY?

fizixer|5 years ago

Hate to be that person, but I'm surprised people like mech keyboards. I ordered one, hated it so much, I actually decided to return it. Too loud, too much force required to type. My ideal keyboard is the low-profile laptop keyboard, especially the thinkpad one, the one before chiclet keys became a fad.

snazz|5 years ago

This is perfectly understandable—mechanical keyboards are certainly not for everyone. I’m in the same boat but for slightly different reasons (and my ideal keyboards are the ThinkPad one you described and the desktop Apple Magic Keyboard, which has a really satisfying key feel).

I think a lot of people in the mechanical keyboard community think of their keyboards as a hobby just as much as a day-to-day tool. The huge variety of key-switches and keycaps and firmwares and the much greater customization opportunities make mechanical keyboards a very good hobby. And, given the variety, it’s probably possible to find the “perfect” keyboard for everyone.

In the end, I was convincing myself that the expensive mechanical keyboard I bought was better than my ThinkPad and Mac keyboards, when I actually still prefer the laptop-style keys. Is there a mech keyboard out there somewhere that would be the perfect fit for me? I’m sure. But I don’t want to spend the time and money searching for it when my current preferred models work plenty well for me. I’d rather spend my resources in other ways.

sascha_sl|5 years ago

There's certainly not just one type of mechanical keyboard. If noise is a problem, you likely had clicky switches or just a really noisy plate / keycaps. Yes, keycaps actually really determine a lot of the noise profile. XDA/DSA keycaps are pretty quiet.

Travel distance can also be adjusted, either with o-rings that are used as spacers (that also silence the switch), low profile switches (kailh has laptop-sized switches now) or simply finding a switch on which you wouldn't bottom out (either by making them heavier or by using tactiles with a light bump).

I have a 60% board with gateron yellows (mid-weight tier linear switches). Lubed and with double o-rings on the keycaps, it's one of the quietest keyboards I've ever owned, and the travel distance is very comfortable at about half of what these switches are intended to be (around 2mm).

If you're not much for building these things yourself and doing all the research, I can always recommend the HHKB.

GuB-42|5 years ago

There are different kinds of mechanical switches. Some of them much lighter than a typical membrane keyboard, so light in fact that you may accidentally press keys without realizing it. As for noisy keyboards, again, some switches can be noisy by design but others are silent.

As for profile, the ThinkPad keyboard is rather high profile for a laptop. I don't know of any low-profile mechanical keyboard but some switches have a short travel distance, ideal for gaming and fast typing.

BTW, the ThinkPad keyboard is available standalone if you like it. You may need to buy it secondhand if you want the original though.

vcxy|5 years ago

This keyboard is clearly silly, but when it comes to normal mechanical keyboards... well, I can barely live without it now. Volume and necessary force do vary though, so what I like might not be very similar to what you didn't like.

solarkraft|5 years ago

I used to think this, but recently using a friend's long travel keyboard made me doubt my position - I typed unexpectedly quickly without any getting used to it. I suppose I'll have to try it out a bit more, but it was definitely pretty surprising to me.

TurplePurtle|5 years ago

To be honest I love "mech keyboards" not really because of the mechanical keys, but because people make them in so many customized sizes and colors. But there's not really a good term for this as far as I'm aware.

varbhat|5 years ago

Why are there >3 rows of Fn keys ? Are they all different? Or Are they placed so to quickly access ?

ardy42|5 years ago

> Why are there >3 rows of Fn keys ? Are they all different? Or Are they placed so to quickly access ?

It looks like the creator just used whatever random keycaps he had. There are also duplicate arrow keys and duplicates from the navigation cluster (e.g. pgdown). The katakana(?) keys also look like they might be incomplete.

swsieber|5 years ago

While were on the topic of keyboards, does anyone know of a good nkro keyboard that's small? I want something to lay on top of my dell xps 13 while I use it that's nkro.

zadkey|5 years ago

Is there a place a someone could go to buy something like this?

bjoli|5 years ago

I have an old IBM F122. A 122-key keyboard is pretty much peak keyboard when it comes to easily purchased commercial offerings. The smaller less sturdy sibling of the F122, the M122 (yes, M as in model M) can still be purchased relatively easy, but then you lose about a kilo of weight, nicer switches and N-key rollover. The prices for model F keyboards are bonkers today though.

Your option when it comes to a lot of keys (as the one posted here) is either to build it yourself or try to find some very specific offerings, maybe aimed at video production.

afandian|5 years ago

Tipro keyboards, designed for POS systems are similar. E.g. this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digipos-Tipro-Black-Keyboard-MID-...

Look out for PS2 and a hard requirement to program them via a real PS2 (not a USB emulated port).

I've bought one (cherry switches sans keycaps), filled it with blank keycaps and now I need to put together some electronics to make it useful (it looks like it uses something like SPI internally).

But first, I'm stuck trying to remember why I thought it would be cool. Because it's just an 8x16 grid of switches.

babo|5 years ago

You mean there is a need for this?

arvinsim|5 years ago

I am more interested in the workflow of using one separate keyboard for each hand.

That is probably trivial to setup on conventional keyboards but I wonder if it is ergonomically better.

nfoz|5 years ago

I'd love to try a keyboard where the keys are a bit wider and with a bit more space between them than normal. Probably bad but still, I'd like to try.

dyingkneepad|5 years ago

I have one where some keys are wider, and I like it. Microsoft Wireless Comfort Desktop 5050 (PP4-00001). The only downside is not being mechanical.

einpoklum|5 years ago

(shrug) don't see how this is useful honestly. You'd just accidentally mistype all the time by laying your hand down to rest.

a_e_k|5 years ago

Where do you rest your hands when you pause from typing? Or do you have to go back and forth over the nearer keys all the time?

tanseydavid|5 years ago

What I need to know is: can I fit the whole thing into a SCRABBLE box for transport? Asking for a friend.

stiglitz|5 years ago

Loving the incomplete set of kana keys.

dsr_|5 years ago

It's ortho, but it isn't split. And clearly it needs to be split.

For ergonomics.

TurplePurtle|5 years ago

Check again :) (Some of the pictures lower in the page show it's actually split)

SuperPaintMan|5 years ago

Check out Flourite, it's a 140% split ergo :)

parched|5 years ago

450 keys but no spacebar?

rixtox|5 years ago

It's obviously for emacs users.

mtVessel|5 years ago

What was it that Dr. Malcolm said?

EForEndeavour|5 years ago

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.