[throwitawayfb]

I've just been given an offer from Facebook and I have a few days to decide to take the job or not. The ethical implications of what I'm doing are intense. On one hand, a near 400k total comp package is very nice, but on the other hand I don't want to make the world worse off. I think if I could make that kind of money working from home for another company it'd be an easier decision. Unfortunately, I have to play the hand I'm dealt.

[baby]

I’m obviously biased since I work there, but I had the exact same concerns before starting two years ago. In reality things are much more different that what HN makes it sound like. There’s all sorts of people, and not everyone agree, and much like the current climate in the US people are getting more and more polarized. I think it’s pretty awesome that everyone in the company is free to express themselves and debate and openly challenge management during Q&As and other events, but I also recognize that at some point the debates can turn toxic and I can see why we would want to avoid that. Once you realize how things work from the inside, you realize that the majority of people do want to make the world a better place, and that it’s easy to pick on things that didn’t work quite well and forget all of the positive sides that social networks have brought to the world. You can tell me that I’m drinking the kool aid but IMO internally things are really not at all like HN likes to portray it everyday.

[Reedx]

> Once you realize how things work from the inside, you realize that the majority of people do want to make the world a better place

It's hard to square that with the algorithmic feed, likes, etc, which are making the world worse every single day in favor of engagement metrics. We've known for many years how destructive these are.

Facebook and Twitter could literally make the world a better place simply by disabling those kind of features. Just remove them. It doesn't get easier than that to substantially improve the world, yet it's not being done.

[ciarannolan]

I don't think the question is really about how the internal politics of Facebook work. The question is whether you should devote years of your limited working time and your talent to make the world a worse place to live in (which I think FB almost certainly does).

[kelnos]

It's great that y'all discuss this sort of thing internally, but at the end of the day, FB and similar platforms have increased polarization, addicted users, eroded privacy, and allowed state actors to influence elections. And that's the incredibly short list.

Whatever internal discussions you're having, they're not working. I'd posit that they can't work, because FB's entire business model is predicated on user-hostile, polarizing behavior, whether anyone internally will admit it or not.

It frankly does not matter one bit what things are like internally when externally we can see the harm FB has caused, and there is zero evidence that harm is going to stop.

[throwitawayfb]

Thanks for your perspective, it helps.

[fblifeadvice645]

As someone who also feels they’re evil (left 5+ years ago), I will grant that it’s not all bad like many here like to think. I imagine many small businesses and nonprofits derive a lot of value from their community building and targeted advertising, which is (maybe) a good thing.

That being said, it’s a good idea to understand why the pay is so high (and it’s not because they’re nice people who only want the best for their employees):

You will be expected to leave moral qualms at the door. This an unwritten rule at many companies, but Facebook had to write it. That says something.

You will be expected to work for it. Hard. The people I know at Facebook easily put in 1.5-2x the hours I do at a FAANG-ish (late nights and weekends seem to be the norm), but get paid roughly 1.5-2x what I do. If that’s a tradeoff you’re willing to make, go for it. I however am making more money than I know what to do with, and thus value all the time I’m not working (hobbies, travel, side projects, etc) way more than the money I’d make from working during that time.

At the end of the day you aren’t going to singlehandedly destroy the fabric of society all that much in your first year, so you’re fine making the above sacrifices for a year or two for some quick cash then fucking off to pursue some real interests, go for it. But I sincerely warn you against sacrificing too much of your life (youth especially) and morals for money —- it really isn’t as valuable as it’s cracked up to be.

[ciarannolan]

Do what you know is right. What you can live with and be proud of.

It sounds like, from reading your comment a couple times, you know what is right but are tempted to ignore that and take the cash.

[jgacook]

If you're being offered a $400K comp package I can say with a lot of certainty that you have not been dealt a hand and are, in fact, a highly skilled worker with a great many options for employment, so sincere congratulations on your success!

It's therefore hard to see how taking this offer would not be choosing to sell your ethics for money and success, given that you could likely land a well paid job anywhere.

[kelnos]

> Unfortunately, I have to play the hand I'm dealt.

Usually you see someone say something like this when they're presented with truly awful options. Seeing it used to refer to a $400k comp package is a bit jarring.

And if you've made it through FB's hiring process and they've given you an attractive offer, I find it hard to believe you don't have other options that don't involve a big ethical quandary, or wouldn't if you interviewed around more.

[skinkestek]

I'm actually in a different position:

I used to loathe Facebook and like Google. These days both seems about the same. Facebooks policy to leave people alone deeply resonates with me even though I still dislike them intensely for what they did to WhatsApp.

And for what it is worth, Facebook unlike Google hasn't insulted me for a decade with the ads they show.

[tanilama]

Not intense at all.

As a screw in the Facebook machine, your significance is trivial. This is true regardless of your intention.

Get over the ethnical drama I would say. Big tech is about as ethnical as banks. In another word, the companies don't care, and they are probably not.

[bendoernberg]

How much less would you make working at another, less evil company?

[throwitawayfb]

Unknown. No other company has recruited me and made me an offer.

[trhway]

Don't sell yourself that cheap, ask for 600k. Once you get it, your doubts will disappear just like by magic.

[jballer]

I work at FB. I wouldn’t want to be working alongside people who think I’m a mercenary abdicating my moral precepts. And I wouldn’t expect that of my colleagues. So my guess is that you could get away with it easily, but you‘d be doing a disservice to yourself and your team.

[throwitawayfb]

No, I certainly wouldn't think of my coworkers as mercenaries for hire, as that's a very simplistic worldview that I don't subscribe to. My net concern is: Will me working at FB be a net good, neutral, or bad for society? I'm fine with neutral, I just don't want it to be a net bad.

[3131s]

> abdicating my moral precepts

Sounds like there's nothing left to abdicate.

[chmaynard]

Consult a lawyer for advice on the legal implications of being directed to work on projects that either violate the law or your own ethical principles. The lawyer can help you draft an employment contract that protects you from retaliation if you object. If Facebook refuses to sign the contract, walk away.

[emtel]

Someone should make a museum of bizarre advice found on HN.

No normal company is going to sign _any_ contract provided by a prospective full-time employee (except perhaps if you are a sought after celebrity being hired at a VP level or above), so it would just be a waste of time and money for someone to take your advice.

Even if the hiring manager personally wanted to, there is no process for doing this. They don't have lawyers standing by to review such contracts. It would probably be hard to even find out who would have the authority to sign such a contract.

Further, retaliating against whistle-blowers is already illegal, as is ordering employees to break laws, so I don't know what additional protection you imagine you would get from such a contract.