I just tried this with my Tesla. The app cannot connect over the internet to the car, but unlocking and starting the car still works, as does using the app to open the charge port and the front trunk.
The Tesla app uses both internet and bluetooth to connect to the car. I would expect that even with no internet connectivity, bluetooth-related functionality would continue to work, and at least today, that is the case.
EDIT: After seeing dawnerd's comment, I just re-opened the app (didn't kill it, it was in background), and now the entry for my car is gone, which means all the bluetooth functionality I mentioned above no longer works. That's one hell of a bug.
Mechanical systems generally have well established failure modes, frequently related to parts wearing out with use. Often these failures can be predicted by warning signs or history of use.
Networked software systems generally have completely unknown and unpredictable failure modes.
Do you really want important infrastructure like your automobile dependent on networked software?
There are a lot of people saying, "This isn't a problem, just use the key/keycard". Which is a fair thing to say, but not what Tesla markets.
Tesla strongly markets the idea that "all you need is the phone".
I know that my in-laws with a Tesla don't carry the key cards. They just use their phone.
So either Tesla needs to make a much stronger push for carrying one's key/keycard, or they need to fix the bug that makes the local bluetooth on the app stop working (or both).
Maybe some people will learn an important lesson here and start carrying their cards.
Where does Tesla market the idea that "all you need is the phone"? When you enable the phone as a key, it explicitly tells you to keep your keycard with you as a backup and that the phone is for convenience only.
People may primarily use their phone because it's convenient (I definitely do) but that doesn't mean Tesla marketed it that way to me.
> I know that my in-laws with a Tesla don't carry the key cards. They just use their phone
Are you actually sure you know that they don't carry the key card in their wallet? Why wouldn't they? I find this pretty doubtful, it just seems like a pointlessly unnecessary way to risk getting locked out of your vehicle if your phone happens to die or becomes otherwise incapacitated. What possible reason could anyone have for not just keeping the card in their wallet as instructed by Tesla associates upon receipt of the vehicle and the cards themselves? It just doesn't make sense.
I disagree, I've never heard them market it as 'you just need the phone'. I've had one for 10 years now. Relying just on a phone is incredibly stupid, for obvious reasons. Do they never drive into a parking garage with no service? Have they never had a phone die suddenly - that's how mine always seem to go? What if you drive where there is no service, out in the country?
This is just wrong. All the instructions tell you to keep your keycard on you at all times. And the keycard is literally the size of a debit card. Just put it in your wallet with your ID and you never have to worry about a network outage.
I keep my keycard with me at all times and it's come in handy when my phone died or the app was just being stubborn.
I mean, the card is shaped like a credit card so people can keep it in their wallets so there's not much excuse. It seems pretty dumb to 100% rely on a device whose battery can run out.
> So either Tesla needs to make a much stronger push for carrying one's key/keycard, or they need to fix the bug that makes the local bluetooth on the app stop working (or both).
I think they just did that stronger push, albeit involuntary :)
Regardless of what Tesla markets, it would seem to be incredibly foolish to rely on your phone in this manner. If you're miles away from home, and you drop your phone and it breaks, or your phone's battery simply dies, I bet you'll feel pretty stupid when you walk up to your car and are unable to unlock or start it via any other means.
Carrying around the key cards just seems like taking a basic amount of responsibility.
I think the weird thing is the app won't finish starting until it has linked up over the Internet, which is problematic on a bunch of fronts. Even when things are working properly, it keeps the app from loading quickly... not something you want to see with a key-entry system.
> Tesla strongly markets the idea that "all you need is the phone".
I've been a Tesla owner for quite a while now. I don't recall seeing that in any marketing material. More-so being "strongly". It's pretty silly not to carry the key cards as a backup for the Model 3/Y (S and X use traditional RF key fobs).
I'm rather surprised that the Tesla app can't operate in offline mode directly with the car. Due to the nature of a car I would think it's a forgone conclusion that the owner might drive to where the app can't connect with the cloud but should still be an authenticated and trusted issuer of digital commands to the car.
Time to add some use cases to the acceptance testing script...
Even with my phone in Airplane mode (WiFi / Cellular disabled), and only Bluetooth on, I'm still able to get into my Model 3. Internet connection is not required by the car, or the phone, to be able to unlock the car, drive, or operate the frunk / trunk.
There is definitely some functionality that works when offline. Phones are the primary key for Model 3 and that works fine when unlocking the car in subterranean garages that have no reception.
This is unlikely correct, because in many parking garages there is no Internet connectivity and hence this issue would have been heard of many many years ago.
They were supposed to have a Robotaxi network running this year, I wonder how it would have handled it? All cars pull over and wait on further instructions? Return to home base all at once?
Honestly, the prospect of having parts of my car have to depend on American network reliability is a huge issue for me. I've had friends stuck outside their Zipcars because they can no longer unlock it in the parking lot of a trailhead.
From the article: “If you’re unable to unlock your car and drive, that’s a problem,” he said.
That's a bogus comment hovering on FUD.
In no general usage do you need app access to the car via the Internet in order to unlock or drive. My wife just drove one of our cars during the outage and didn't even known it was ongoing.
I would assume that even with the Model 3 using the phone as a key, it just uses LE Bluetooth -- not Internet access via the app.
I don't see how this is a problem. My Tesla comes with a key (card) so even if the app might fail, I'll always be able to drive perfectly fine. The card is in my wallet, I just hold my wallet up to the door and get in.
Just one of a variety of conveniences is currently down.
Tesla has beaten everyone to the electric car mass market and that’s great. However, every report I see contains failures of the cars like these such that the car itself is poorly designed. What’s stopping Toyota or Isuzu from making a me-too version of the Tesla? What competitive advantage does Tesla have beyond being first to the market?
Speaking as a car nut and long-time Tesla skeptic who eventually broke down and bought a Model 3 - the car is not poorly designed, it's just not perfect, and any imperfection gets amplified by the company's high profile and the army of people that seem to want to tear them down.
Tesla cars are the worst-built, worst-furnished cars you can buy at their price points. If you care about comfort, ride quality, etc., go with anything but a Tesla.
But Tesla's batteries are industry-leading. If Tesla were to shed their EV-money pit, they'd easily earn their current valuation just by selling their batteries to everyone in the auto and power industries.
But by keeping their batteries limited to just their small share of the auto market, they've given their competitors reason to do their own research into battery/EV technology, and it's already starting to hurt them in Europe, where Tesla was outsold by other EV brands/models in several countries over the past few months, and that's without their major competitors having yet brought mass-market EVs to market.
The batteries, the supercharger network, the software.
I think you’re reacting to the media presentation. Even though 100s of thousands of people have perfectly fine operation every day, that isn’t going to make the news. The few breakages do.
Toyota doesn’t have a celebrity CEO that can push through unreasonable product tied to a promise of having a good product in the feature. Tesla’s competitive advantage is Elon Musk.
Try selling crappy and expensive product with a promise of using the money and expertise to build a better one next time.
Yesterday’s battery day was also a promise to do great things in the future.
Autopilot is something that Tesla sells with the promise of one day becoming self-driving car.
Who else can do that? The others need to put their own money to bet on that and need to deliver good value products with reasonable quality for the money asked.
Other car manufacturers are producing EVs today. Not Toyota, they did bet on hydrogen cars and lost years.
Also, I would argue that Nissan was first to release an good enough and affordable EV in 2011.
The concurrence for EVs is strong in Europe now, and Tesla is not the best selling car company anymore. See for example the Norwegian stats : https://elbilstatistikk.no/ That may change when Tesla will make smaller and more affordable vehicles in Europe.
The Model 3 is the most well designed car I've ever used. There are some rough edges, but it's a huge leap forward for car UX. I'd actually argue that Tesla has as much or more of an advantage and head start on UX as they do on battery technology.
[+] [-] mtviewdave|5 years ago|reply
The Tesla app uses both internet and bluetooth to connect to the car. I would expect that even with no internet connectivity, bluetooth-related functionality would continue to work, and at least today, that is the case.
EDIT: After seeing dawnerd's comment, I just re-opened the app (didn't kill it, it was in background), and now the entry for my car is gone, which means all the bluetooth functionality I mentioned above no longer works. That's one hell of a bug.
[+] [-] jackfoxy|5 years ago|reply
Networked software systems generally have completely unknown and unpredictable failure modes.
Do you really want important infrastructure like your automobile dependent on networked software?
[+] [-] jedberg|5 years ago|reply
Tesla strongly markets the idea that "all you need is the phone".
I know that my in-laws with a Tesla don't carry the key cards. They just use their phone.
So either Tesla needs to make a much stronger push for carrying one's key/keycard, or they need to fix the bug that makes the local bluetooth on the app stop working (or both).
Maybe some people will learn an important lesson here and start carrying their cards.
[+] [-] dkonofalski|5 years ago|reply
People may primarily use their phone because it's convenient (I definitely do) but that doesn't mean Tesla marketed it that way to me.
[+] [-] root_axis|5 years ago|reply
Are you actually sure you know that they don't carry the key card in their wallet? Why wouldn't they? I find this pretty doubtful, it just seems like a pointlessly unnecessary way to risk getting locked out of your vehicle if your phone happens to die or becomes otherwise incapacitated. What possible reason could anyone have for not just keeping the card in their wallet as instructed by Tesla associates upon receipt of the vehicle and the cards themselves? It just doesn't make sense.
[+] [-] NotSammyHagar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adoxyz|5 years ago|reply
I keep my keycard with me at all times and it's come in handy when my phone died or the app was just being stubborn.
[+] [-] kemiller|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chinathrow|5 years ago|reply
I think they just did that stronger push, albeit involuntary :)
[+] [-] kelnos|5 years ago|reply
Carrying around the key cards just seems like taking a basic amount of responsibility.
[+] [-] tensor|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbsmith|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdcravens|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xedeon|5 years ago|reply
I've been a Tesla owner for quite a while now. I don't recall seeing that in any marketing material. More-so being "strongly". It's pretty silly not to carry the key cards as a backup for the Model 3/Y (S and X use traditional RF key fobs).
They are also only $12 each! https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-3_y-key-card I carry one in my wallet and iPhone case.
[+] [-] TurkishPoptart|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] millerm|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikece|5 years ago|reply
Time to add some use cases to the acceptance testing script...
[+] [-] trca|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nacs|5 years ago|reply
My Nest thermostats on the other hand require Google connectivity to change the temperature even when I'm connected to the home wifi..
[+] [-] slg|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kerng|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cma|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bobthepanda|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] judge2020|5 years ago|reply
https://downdetector.com/
https://downdetector.com/status/rocket-league/
[+] [-] RLdown|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevehawk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway5752|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] jlv2|5 years ago|reply
That's a bogus comment hovering on FUD.
In no general usage do you need app access to the car via the Internet in order to unlock or drive. My wife just drove one of our cars during the outage and didn't even known it was ongoing.
I would assume that even with the Model 3 using the phone as a key, it just uses LE Bluetooth -- not Internet access via the app.
[+] [-] phone8675309|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/tesla-fbi-prevent-ransomware-...
[+] [-] ChrisClark|5 years ago|reply
Just one of a variety of conveniences is currently down.
[+] [-] gmaster1440|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dk1138|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] neonate|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ra7|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimbob45|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avalys|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gamblor956|5 years ago|reply
Tesla cars are the worst-built, worst-furnished cars you can buy at their price points. If you care about comfort, ride quality, etc., go with anything but a Tesla.
But Tesla's batteries are industry-leading. If Tesla were to shed their EV-money pit, they'd easily earn their current valuation just by selling their batteries to everyone in the auto and power industries.
But by keeping their batteries limited to just their small share of the auto market, they've given their competitors reason to do their own research into battery/EV technology, and it's already starting to hurt them in Europe, where Tesla was outsold by other EV brands/models in several countries over the past few months, and that's without their major competitors having yet brought mass-market EVs to market.
[+] [-] bwanab|5 years ago|reply
I think you’re reacting to the media presentation. Even though 100s of thousands of people have perfectly fine operation every day, that isn’t going to make the news. The few breakages do.
[+] [-] mrtksn|5 years ago|reply
Try selling crappy and expensive product with a promise of using the money and expertise to build a better one next time.
Yesterday’s battery day was also a promise to do great things in the future.
Autopilot is something that Tesla sells with the promise of one day becoming self-driving car.
Who else can do that? The others need to put their own money to bet on that and need to deliver good value products with reasonable quality for the money asked.
[+] [-] martythemaniak|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] speedgoose|5 years ago|reply
Also, I would argue that Nissan was first to release an good enough and affordable EV in 2011.
The concurrence for EVs is strong in Europe now, and Tesla is not the best selling car company anymore. See for example the Norwegian stats : https://elbilstatistikk.no/ That may change when Tesla will make smaller and more affordable vehicles in Europe.
[+] [-] tensor|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] golem14|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] taf2|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] novok|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cblconfederate|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] api|5 years ago|reply
Oh yeah, because we broke the Internet with NAT.