I'm an ADD adult and this especially hits me when I'm participating competitions, be it leetcode coding competition or examination. I just hate to do it and every other bits of attention source will got me seeked on, like a notification from my phone, or someone dropped a pen to the ground.
That's how fast I lost focus. But on the other hand sometimes I can be extra-focused, with a prerequisite it's something I enjoyed -- where I truly focus on one single task nonstop, like I finally got the ebb and flow in a tranced out state. This resulted me in one case coding straight for 7 hours. It's not until my body started to crave for food or I don't know how long will this loose cannon shoot.
ADD is both a blessing and a curse to me. This is how I accquired coding and various IT skills since 13, all self-taught. But this also fucked me over exams, and my so life experience is greatly impacted. I also tried to play rhythm games to control focus, only to see it ultimately failed. The only thing I had to deal with it slightly is my Ritalin...only so slightly I can "normally" focus for an hour. I just hope things go right in the rest of my life.
I agree with the "blessing and curse" characterization. I owe my career to thousands of hours spent hyperfocused on learning programming languages for fun while I was supposed to be doing homework. On the other hand, I've come close to losing my job because of difficulty carrying out assigned tasks that don't matter to me.
Interesting contrast though: for me leetcode, certain exams, and interviews often trigger hyperfocus. Studying and assignments, as well as day-to-day work, rarely do. I take a fair bit of medication so I can do my job. I'm trying to pivot towards something which more naturally engages my interest, maybe SRE or security work.
Interesting how we're all affected differently. I recommend skimming "delivered from distraction" if you haven't already, there are some good tips in there on how ADHD folks can deliberately create the right conditions for flow.
Similar experience here. As a kid I couldn't manage to read a couple paragraphs on a boring subject but I could study and practice programming for 12 hours straight. Developed plenty of coping mechanisms and was only diagnosed in adulthood halfway into medical school. Every ADHD patient I've seen has a similar story of hyperattention...
I'm convinced this disorder is named after attention and hyperactivity because the children don't adapt well to school. At least not the traditional mass education model where kids sit in a class listening to lectures all day. There's probably a lot more we don't know about it. Some doctors I've seen think it's a made up illness created to sell amphetamines.
I'm in the same boat as you. As I've aged, I've realized it's necessary for me to have medication for me to be productive for an extended period of time.
I encourage you to embrace the chemical imbalance as the reason. The medications do work and withdrawing from them isn't bad either (if you decide to take a pill holiday or extended non-use).
Finally, it's not about 'normal' focus. It's about you. If you're content with your productivity and behavior, then nothing is needed to change in your life. If you want to maximize your potential, then please consider medication. It doesn't go away (CBT never worked for me). Embrace your choice. Whatever you decide, is normal, it's your normal. That's perfectly acceptable.
> This resulted me in one case coding straight for 7 hours.
This happened to me this weekend. It's truly scary in retrospect. I got a business idea thursday, and coded nonstop until Sunday. It's a rentable AI service for dating apps. I launched it and it's super neat imo, but I lost almost 8 lbs in that time because I didn't eat, drink water, and slept only when my thoughts started to blank out.
I am now focusing on rehabilitating by eating a lot and going to the gym. I got so skinny. I wasn't on any medication either.
> The only thing I had to deal with it slightly is my Ritalin...only so slightly I can "normally" focus for an hour. I just hope things go right in the rest of my life.
Talk to your doctor, there have been many advances in ADHD meds and they all work differently on different people. Some people respond well to Ritalin, Some respond well to the generic. Some respond well the Adderal, or Vyvanse. For some people only the name brand formulation works. Some people any formulation works. Also, make sure you are at the right dosage. You can and do build up a tolerance over time. I try to take weekends off when I don't have anything in particular I need to do, and at least one or two weeks a year (normally when I go on vacation).
Has ADD had any kind of effect on your relationships? If so, in what way? I was wondering if ADD might make it seem like one doesn’t care about people because it’s hard to maintain focus on them.
I also have ADD. I'm untreated since it's kinda expensive and my job is easy enough to not need to be.
I'm glad that ADD/ADHD is more accepted now because I remember when the idea some people have problems focusing was immediately dismissed as laziness or a fault in character. I didn't even consider getting tested until far into adulthood because of the stigma.
This was an interesting read but, as an adult with ADHD, all I get out of this is that medication is even more of a benefit to those with real difficulties coping with their ADHD. I've always been one to 'just deal with it' but after a few years of working through school and seeing my younger brothers go through the same thing with medication, I realized that I was essentially just handicapping myself.
Now I take medication in the morning before I get to work and it basically lasts me through the work/school day. When I was younger I was perscribed ritalin, and it just made me sleepy so I stopped taking it. Now I take a more modern medication and it works wonders. The negative stigma against medication really harmed me in school, and I wonder how different things would've been for me if I had started taking an effective medication at 16 and not at 25.
I've been on Adderall for 5 years ... I'm 43 right now.
It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better.
By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them.
Adderall totally changed that. I'm able to focus on tasks long term AND even if something bad happens in my life I'm able to keep right on track.
It's also helped me stay more positive knowing that projects get completed and there's nothing preventing me from accomplishing what I want to accomplish.
There are some downsides though:
- Adderall is illegal in most countries so you're not even allowed to travel with it in some places. I didn't really know this at first and I wish they would tell you. Most countries will overlook it but if you're China they could totally use it as an excuse to harass you if they wanted.
- It's very addictive. If I forget my meds it's basically impossible to function.
- It's VERY hard to get since it's a controlled substance. I'm only able to get it 72 hours ahead of time and if they're out of stock sometimes I have to wait. DO NOT wait until the last minute. Get it as early as possible.
- Some people have problems with off brands of XR (extended release) that has a different formulation. There's no standardization on the XR process and I think it's vendor specific.
Completely life changing.
My focus and energy level were on par with a normal persons.
Unfortunately it was far too hard on the body. Started stroking out on it. Plus it interacted with almost every Medicane I’ve been prescribed.
Tried vyvanse. Only one side effect. The deepest most profound sadness imaginable. Would sit for hours just “sad”. Nothing was bothering me.
Worked fine aside from that. Gave it up after a few weeks.
Aderral did remove most of the “pain” from boring things. So in that regards it taught me how to manage symptoms better. Focus is still a major problem, and I’m back to older trucks of ear plugs and a dim room. But not as bad as before.
Kids have it strong. Wife wants them on meds, but weird reactions run in family so I’m highly reluctant.
Yeah, the stigma against the medication, and the people who casually say "omg, I'm like, so ADD" really hurt the people who have actually been diagnosed with it. Depending on where you live, it can be difficult to find a psychiatrist willing to see you for a diagnoses and subsequent prescription because they think that you're a college kid wanting to abuse it or sell it. I had to call 4-5 different offices until I found a psychiatrist that would see me, and you can check the /r/ADHD and see a bunch of stories about people who moved to a different state for work, but nobody will prescribe them their medication in their new state, and now they're struggling at their new job.
As someone with ADHD I was once prescribed the lowest dose of adderall (5 mg?) and I found it was so much like being high it genuinely scared me
I was working from home and the second it kicked in I started getting literal chills down my spine.
I ended up messaging a bunch of people on Facebook I haven’t talked to in years but felt a sudden affinity and empathy for.
I got distracted by a part of my apartment that I hadn’t cleaned in a while and missed a meeting because I ended up cleaning the whole place, including weird things like dusting the sides of books.
When I finally got to coding, it was like I was in the matrix. Hyper focused (and fwiw getting a lot done) but in a weird euphoric high feeling way.
I guess what I’m asking is is that how everyone feels the first time they take it?
And how long does it take to just feel normal on it, but like able to focus?
I want to try it again, because I need help focusing and know I can do better, but I’m genuinely afraid of the person I was on that stuff.
We are trying out various ADHD meds for my son and every one is like a deal with the devil - it helps with some things, but leaves him twice as wired when it wears off, or makes him sleepy or keeps him awake at night. I hope in the future we can get more targetted treatments without so many side effects.
After college I finally got diagnosed again after being off medication for 8 or so years. Grew up first doing Ritalin->adderall->concerta->no meds. I realized how needlessly difficult I made college for myself.
> When I was younger I was perscribed ritalin, and it just made me sleepy so I stopped taking it. Now I take a more modern medication and it works wonders.
I don't have ADHD, but I'm curious what the modern one is.
Back in middle school, around 2001, I did a report on ADD and ADHD, and 3 of the medications that existed for it: Ritalin, Cylert, and I'm not certain of the third but from the other comments Adderall sounds like it could be it (though I think it started with a "D", is there one that does?). The only thing I remember from it is the conclusion that if I got diagnosed and needed medication, I'd refuse Ritalin, and that Cylert seemed like the best of the three.
what do you take now. im also an adult with adhd, i did take ritalin before but concerta is the only thing available to me right now. i dont think its especially effective to me, but i take only 36mg per day. and its better then not taking anything.
Could you let us know what more modern medication you are using? I have serious problems with Ritalin side effects but am not aware of any alternatives besides adderall, vyvanse or riatlin like products.
Curious if you've ever done a hair follicle mineral test to check for mineral deficiencies?
We've been working through the book, "Finally Focused", to help our son. Magnesium supplementation is recommendation #1, Iron supplementation (if deficient as demonstrated by the test) and then the over-the-counter, lithium orotate. We haven't gotten further than chapter 3, yet.
> I've always been one to 'just deal with it' but after a few years of working through school and seeing my younger brothers go through the same thing with medication, I realized that I was essentially just handicapping myself.
That's not entirely true, though. There is a lot of value in learning good habits to cope with ADHD and developing systems and mental models to improve your ADHD situation. ADHD isn't a purely dopaminergic "chemical imbalance" in the brain that can only be improved with chemical solutions, similar to how depression isn't entirely a chemical imbalance of serotonin.
One of the downsides of aggressive ADHD medication treatment is that it can handicap learning of good habits and coping strategies. Some, thought not all, patients quickly learn to rely on the stimulant effect of their medication to get anything done, assuming that medication is the only way to improve. This becomes a problem as the motivating effects of stimulant medication wear off after months or years, leaving only the concentration-enhancing side effects. Internet forums are full of 20-something ADHD patients who think the only way to address their ADHD is ever increasing doses of stimulants, but eventually they hit prescribing limits and increasing side effects. The solution is to approach ADHD as a combined treatment with minimal medication and heavy emphasis on self-discipline and healthy habits.
Regarding this study: Don't forget that ADHD medications aren't simply dopamine dispensers. All of the stimulant ADHD medications have significant norepinephrine activity, as well. There are many reasons why pure dopamine agonists aren't effective for ADHD.
> I wonder how different things would've been for me if I had started taking an effective medication at 16 and not at 25.
In reality, you may have benefited greatly by spending your formative years teaching yourself coping mechanisms and learning good study habits before introducing ADHD medication.
Many people take stimulant treatment for years or decades, but the unfortunate reality is that the long-term effectiveness of stimulants isn't exactly a sure thing. Clinical trials and studies rarely run for more than a few months. The studies on long-term patients are mixed, but not encourage for long-term effectiveness of stimulants ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11322742/ ). If you only recently started taking stimulants, you might be in somewhat of a "honeymoon phase" where the core effects are still strong. Note that after years of use, people will tend to overestimate the effects of the drug due to the severity of withdrawal symptoms on days off.
In short, I'd encourage you to continue addressing your ADHD symptoms with ever-improving self discipline, personal habits, and healthy lifestyle choices. The medication is part of a treatment regimen, but it shouldn't be the entirety of one's treatment regimen.
> children with ADHD require stronger incentives to modify their behavior than those without ADHD5; they also show a failure to delay gratification, have impaired responses to partial schedules of reinforcement, and preference for small immediate rewards over larger delayed rewards6,7.
I'm an adult with ADHD and that paragraph describes me to a T, though it definitely was worse as a child
I got my first D grade in a subject in fifth grade, and the next seven years were basically my parents trying every tool at their disposal to motivate me to get better grades.
I was on academic probation four more terms than I wasn't in college, and graduated with a low C average after 5.5 years, plus two summer terms.
I got hired at the only company that forgot to ask for my GPA.
I think if I were just sightly less intelligent, I would have been in a world of hurt and possibly dead by now.
Likewise, there is a fine line between my personality and the kind that tends to end up in poverty or dead where I live. I feel like I’m constantly barely clinging to whatever i remains about me that allows me to thrive at all. I don’t act to my best judgement most of the time.
A big middle finger to my ~top 20 public university who wouldn't give me any accommodations of extra time because they required some ridiculous hoops to jump through proving I had trouble concentrating and finishing an exam in the allotted time, they wanted substantial documentation with brain scans showing I had a deficit all because ADHD isn't considered a bonafide disability by the government. I almost flunked out cause of some calculus and organic/biochemistry classes that required tons of rote memorization (pre-med before switching to computer major).
Even though I'm successful now in tech with a huge salary, this experience of being treated like I had a made-up disorder (can't easily perceive it with no physical impairment/more obvious mental issues), and was invisible to the system full of cold-hearted academic administrators quick to academically disqualify me still makes me seethe and feel wronged to this very day.
I'm in community college, but my experience in high school was basically identical to yours. High school and the beginning of college were a nightmare for me for essentially the same reasons you describe. I still feel like I'm shaking off some kind of imposter syndrome when I'm interviewing for a new client. Students used to seethe when my test scores were read because, despite testing top of the class I never did any extracurricular work or engaged in class very much. Eventually even the teachers started to treat me like a burnout. I'd start a new semester and the teacher would already know who I was from chatting in the teachers' lounge. At least in community college the student/faculty pool is wide enough that I can avoid those types of interactions, plus the switch to computer science and some decent ADHD meds have made all the difference.
I’ve had more help with my ADHD symptoms from a series of DMT experiences, than I ever did from the mainstream treatment process. One single DMT experience (containing about an objective hour of intensely being dragged through time) greatly minimized my ADHD symptoms for at least six months. There is untapped potential in psychedelics for treatment of things like this. It’s a crime against humanity that we allowed neurotypicals to decide for everyone how these neurochemistries are managed.
ADHD treatment is not ADHD friendly. Society is not ADHD friendly. Neurotypicals literally have the same scale of mental privilege as whites do in a racial context.
As an adult with ADD i cast doubts about the diagnosis. I have started to more and more think my diagosis is just a result of not being a high productive high intelligence individual.
I more and more realise that my brain and personality is not the kind that is made for desk work. I find it boring and difficult.
I have done other types of works that suits me better i beleive my life would be so much better if i just accepted that i was never to be sitting at a desk solving problems.
School has always been difficult for me, simply because it hard to learn the things you need to learn in shcool, for more intelligent individuals school is not the same big deal as it is for me. But thats just the way things is. The same way i was not born 2meter tall and an musculuar body.
I beleive that we will see more and more ADD/ADHD diagnosies in the future, simply because automation puts more demands on the individual and the jobs will be more mentally demanding.
I see a future where meds like adderal will be availble in the supermarkets.
Instead of giving people ADD/ADHD diagnosises we should just teach people to accept that not everyone are made for mentally demanding tasks and that not everyone goes thru school without it being a huge difficult task. Parents also needs to learn that their kids might not will be able to compete in the job markets in the future and the solution is not to medicate it away.
What I really want to know is if taking all this adderall to beat my axon terminals into submission and pump out dopamine + block re-uptake is going to cause an early onset of an Alzheimer-esque neurodegeneration when I'm approaching my senior years.
This hypothetical sends chills down by spine knowing I might be making a deal with the devil to get a temporary fix on ADHD symptoms now for increased risk of dopamine downregulation or neurodegeneration later.
Can anyone relate and/or give me some peace of mind? ~60mg/day for 12 years and not letting up anytime soon as long as I need my executive functions under my command to do computer work. If I drop the stimulants I can maybe get a low wage job doing basic IT service desk stuff or live a simple life doing a 'muscle memory' line of work e.g. Amazon factory worker, go to trade school for something hands on, etc. that doesn't require asynchronous access to my prefrontal cortex + memories + instantaneous storage/retrieval with my working memory for hours on end.
God I envy neurotypical people, I feel handicapped mentally in comparison to their baseline.
In my country you can't get diagnosed and treated for adult ADHD if you weren't diagnosed as a child. Which is a complete bullshit. One can only buy meds on a black market and hope for the best...
The good news is that you don’t need to. In fact, these articles tend to give people a false feeling of understanding, and an impression that ADHD is purely a chemical situation in the brain that can only be treated with drugs.
That’s not really true. Medication can absolutely help for severe cases, but falling into the trap of thinking that ADHD is a purely chemical problem that can only be addressed with chemical solutions can lead people to neglect the important lifestyle and self-discipline changes that will really help their situation in the long term.
Don’t get caught up in ideas that ADHD is “just dopamine”, because that’s a path to ignoring the fact that personal changes and therapy can improve ADHD immensely.
My working theory is that abuse damages (and neglect stunts) the reward system and we interpret that as ADHD (as good a moniker as any).
Whereas people typically experience micro-rewards during the learning process, for people with ADHD, the reward response is too insufficient to reinforce learning. Without a proper reward system, a healthy learning system can't develop properly.
Some people firehose Will at the problem which may overcome an occasional challenge. That bandaid isn't sustainable, however.
FYI before you watch an 80 minute video (which I did):
"Amen has built a profitable business around the use of SPECT (single photon emission computed tomography) imaging for purported diagnostic purposes.[6] His marketing of SPECT scans and much of what he says about the brain and health in his books, media appearances, and marketing of his clinics has been condemned by scientists and doctors as lacking scientific validity and as being unethical, especially since the way SPECT is used in his clinics exposes people to harmful radiation with no clear benefit."
This makes a ton of sense to me. When I was a kid, just about everyone (including my parents) knew I had ADD/ADHD, but never did anything about it. Including myself. It wasn't until I lost a job because I was so easily distractable that I realized how much of a hold it had on my life. Medication helps, but really only on making it easier to pry myself from distractions.
But this study clarifies so much of my behaviour and self-image from when I was a kid to now. I bully myself fiercely, and never understood why I should be praised for high grades, when it was something expected of me. That definitely extends to now, where I can finish/deliver a product, but feel _nothing_ about it. No sense of accomplishment, no relief that something's shipped. Nothing. It stops me from taking on hobbies or really doing anything with the material that I learn. Leads to regular burnout and cycles of depression.
The article references methylphenidate as a good drug for ADHD, specifically for motivation. This makes me sad, because I'm on it, and not feeling very motivated.
Biggest issue for me is palpitations on adderall. Withdrawal gives me annoying palpitations and I get them sometimes while taking it.
It’s very annoying when I want to take the weekend off and have to suffer through massive withdrawal.
Honestly has changed my life for the better overall, but if anyone has any suggestions for trying to get rid of palpitations, it would be very much appreciated.
I have ADHD and have noticed that I have extreme difficulty maintaining a schedule or forming habits. Almost everything I do is the result of by moment to moment decisions. I flit from project to project as needed, and have hundreds of things going on all the time.
This inability to form habits is extreme. If something's not right in front of me I forget that it exists. I've tried to start smoking, but as soon as the pack is gone I forget to buy another. I don't shower until it starts to effect me. I don't sleep until I can't keep my eyes open. I forget to eat until my stomach hurts. I truly don't believe I can become addicted to anything. I've been tempted to try crack because I've heard that everybody gets addicted to it and I might be able to use it to create artificial motivation in myself. I tried chewing nicotine gum every time I took a shower, but I just couldn't remember to do it, and it wasn't helping enough with forming habits.
I also have memory problems and basically have to re-invent everything from scratch all the time. I'm really good at solving problems so I've been able to cover up most of my failings. One story that highlights this happened when I was taking the ACT. There was one question at the end that I had to invent calculus to solve. I had a feeling that I hadn't solved a problem like it before, but I went ahead and solved it anyway and got every question on the math section correct. My verbal skills on the other hand were just barely acceptable.
Another anecdote about lack of schedule and routine also comes from my highschool time. Between classes I'd routinely forget that I had another class to go to. I'd see someone in the hall and start talking until the bell rang. In my highschool being late 3 times was equivalent to an absence, and 7 absences was an automatic fail. Needless to say I had probably the worst GPA in history. I also did very well on tests, but could never ever remember to read my book or do my homework.
Basically, a consistent theme is I'm totally worthless until I stumble into a magical sprint where I get 2 months worth of work done overnight.
I just spent from 1:30am to about 5:00am in my car with my laptop and was able to make 6 much needed git commits as well as taking care of a bunch of other issues with my main project. The last commits were the end of August with 14 commits over just a few days.
Wow, that was a ramble, but I've been up for about 30 hours now so that's not surprising.
My experience as someone who (probably) has ADD and who knows lots of people who do, is that ADD people tend to be highly passionate and motivated. It's just that our motivations jump around all over the place.
For a long time my response to this tendency was to try to control, direct, pin down my motivation so that I could stick with something until it was done. Doing this caused me to actually have a real deficit of motivation, instead of just an always-changing motivation. Once I stopped trying to control it and embraced jumping-around, following my interest wherever it led me, I actually had much more success seeing tasks through to completion (and even circling back to ones I'd left behind, because I wasn't feeling guilty about having left them behind). It's like my attention is highly fragmented, but I still have the same amount.
An ADD person's motivation is like a wild animal that you just have to give room to so it can do its thing. Hitch a ride to it, instead of trying to tame it, and you'll eventually get where you want to go.
The above link is a collection of PDFs summarizing key points on ADHD by Russel Barkley, generally considered by many in the ADHD community to be the 'god' of ADHD research.
Very interesting. Most people I've talked to with ADHD share this experience of sudden loss of motivation...
I can focus easily on tasks - even hyper focus for hours. Problems arise when there's an important but boring task vs a nonessential but interesting task. I will struggle to just think about starting the boring task. It can be really crippling when working with other people or in a startup.
I have adhd myself, and I built a NLP tool around working out how well medication is working for me. I'm launching the mvp of it in the next few days if anyone is keen! https://moodmap.app
Meditating every day has done amazing things for me in terms of bringing clarity/focus to my life. I understand, however, that my ADHD if any is likely less pronounced than others and can see the benefit that taking medication can provide.
Before I started training myself to meditate, I noticed that drinking a lot of coffee seemed to help me focus better. Though it was only really until I started meditating that I realized it was possible to direct my focus/attention in such a calculated manner. I had always resigned myself to "my attention" controlling the actions I took rather than the other way around with me actively choosing how I apply it.
I recently started atomoxetine for my ADHD and had to completely stop it. Side effects were killing me.
After I stopped, I was more hyperactive and less focused... Yet the hyperactivity compensated for the "less focused" part, and I finished a week's work in a day.
That's my experience with meds so far. They completely eliminate my anxiety and make me feel in control of my emotions. Yet they make me less productive than when I'm in a hyperactive rush (even if my focus is reduced).
So for now I'm just going to embrace my inconsistency (in terms of emotions, energy, and focus) because I think I'm way worse without it. Establishing a routine helps me cope much better - I feel waking up early and having a good morning dictates how productive my day will be.
On meds, I finally felt in control of my life and energy. But it also felt bland, boring. I didn't feel anything. I had no anxiety to push me to go the extra mile. My personality & cheeriness were nonexistent. And I was, overall, simply less productive.
[+] [-] stevefan1999|5 years ago|reply
That's how fast I lost focus. But on the other hand sometimes I can be extra-focused, with a prerequisite it's something I enjoyed -- where I truly focus on one single task nonstop, like I finally got the ebb and flow in a tranced out state. This resulted me in one case coding straight for 7 hours. It's not until my body started to crave for food or I don't know how long will this loose cannon shoot.
ADD is both a blessing and a curse to me. This is how I accquired coding and various IT skills since 13, all self-taught. But this also fucked me over exams, and my so life experience is greatly impacted. I also tried to play rhythm games to control focus, only to see it ultimately failed. The only thing I had to deal with it slightly is my Ritalin...only so slightly I can "normally" focus for an hour. I just hope things go right in the rest of my life.
[+] [-] titanomachy|5 years ago|reply
Interesting contrast though: for me leetcode, certain exams, and interviews often trigger hyperfocus. Studying and assignments, as well as day-to-day work, rarely do. I take a fair bit of medication so I can do my job. I'm trying to pivot towards something which more naturally engages my interest, maybe SRE or security work.
Interesting how we're all affected differently. I recommend skimming "delivered from distraction" if you haven't already, there are some good tips in there on how ADHD folks can deliberately create the right conditions for flow.
[+] [-] matheusmoreira|5 years ago|reply
I'm convinced this disorder is named after attention and hyperactivity because the children don't adapt well to school. At least not the traditional mass education model where kids sit in a class listening to lectures all day. There's probably a lot more we don't know about it. Some doctors I've seen think it's a made up illness created to sell amphetamines.
[+] [-] heimatau|5 years ago|reply
I encourage you to embrace the chemical imbalance as the reason. The medications do work and withdrawing from them isn't bad either (if you decide to take a pill holiday or extended non-use).
Finally, it's not about 'normal' focus. It's about you. If you're content with your productivity and behavior, then nothing is needed to change in your life. If you want to maximize your potential, then please consider medication. It doesn't go away (CBT never worked for me). Embrace your choice. Whatever you decide, is normal, it's your normal. That's perfectly acceptable.
[+] [-] summitsummit|5 years ago|reply
> This resulted me in one case coding straight for 7 hours.
This happened to me this weekend. It's truly scary in retrospect. I got a business idea thursday, and coded nonstop until Sunday. It's a rentable AI service for dating apps. I launched it and it's super neat imo, but I lost almost 8 lbs in that time because I didn't eat, drink water, and slept only when my thoughts started to blank out.
I am now focusing on rehabilitating by eating a lot and going to the gym. I got so skinny. I wasn't on any medication either.
[+] [-] GABeech|5 years ago|reply
Talk to your doctor, there have been many advances in ADHD meds and they all work differently on different people. Some people respond well to Ritalin, Some respond well to the generic. Some respond well the Adderal, or Vyvanse. For some people only the name brand formulation works. Some people any formulation works. Also, make sure you are at the right dosage. You can and do build up a tolerance over time. I try to take weekends off when I don't have anything in particular I need to do, and at least one or two weeks a year (normally when I go on vacation).
[+] [-] jv22222|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bobloblaw45|5 years ago|reply
I'm glad that ADD/ADHD is more accepted now because I remember when the idea some people have problems focusing was immediately dismissed as laziness or a fault in character. I didn't even consider getting tested until far into adulthood because of the stigma.
[+] [-] _dibly|5 years ago|reply
Now I take medication in the morning before I get to work and it basically lasts me through the work/school day. When I was younger I was perscribed ritalin, and it just made me sleepy so I stopped taking it. Now I take a more modern medication and it works wonders. The negative stigma against medication really harmed me in school, and I wonder how different things would've been for me if I had started taking an effective medication at 16 and not at 25.
[+] [-] burtonator|5 years ago|reply
It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better.
By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them.
Adderall totally changed that. I'm able to focus on tasks long term AND even if something bad happens in my life I'm able to keep right on track.
It's also helped me stay more positive knowing that projects get completed and there's nothing preventing me from accomplishing what I want to accomplish.
There are some downsides though:
- Adderall is illegal in most countries so you're not even allowed to travel with it in some places. I didn't really know this at first and I wish they would tell you. Most countries will overlook it but if you're China they could totally use it as an excuse to harass you if they wanted.
- It's very addictive. If I forget my meds it's basically impossible to function.
- It's VERY hard to get since it's a controlled substance. I'm only able to get it 72 hours ahead of time and if they're out of stock sometimes I have to wait. DO NOT wait until the last minute. Get it as early as possible.
- Some people have problems with off brands of XR (extended release) that has a different formulation. There's no standardization on the XR process and I think it's vendor specific.
[+] [-] treeman79|5 years ago|reply
Completely life changing. My focus and energy level were on par with a normal persons.
Unfortunately it was far too hard on the body. Started stroking out on it. Plus it interacted with almost every Medicane I’ve been prescribed.
Tried vyvanse. Only one side effect. The deepest most profound sadness imaginable. Would sit for hours just “sad”. Nothing was bothering me. Worked fine aside from that. Gave it up after a few weeks.
Aderral did remove most of the “pain” from boring things. So in that regards it taught me how to manage symptoms better. Focus is still a major problem, and I’m back to older trucks of ear plugs and a dim room. But not as bad as before.
Kids have it strong. Wife wants them on meds, but weird reactions run in family so I’m highly reluctant.
[+] [-] dx87|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cgb223|5 years ago|reply
I was working from home and the second it kicked in I started getting literal chills down my spine.
I ended up messaging a bunch of people on Facebook I haven’t talked to in years but felt a sudden affinity and empathy for.
I got distracted by a part of my apartment that I hadn’t cleaned in a while and missed a meeting because I ended up cleaning the whole place, including weird things like dusting the sides of books.
When I finally got to coding, it was like I was in the matrix. Hyper focused (and fwiw getting a lot done) but in a weird euphoric high feeling way.
I guess what I’m asking is is that how everyone feels the first time they take it?
And how long does it take to just feel normal on it, but like able to focus?
I want to try it again, because I need help focusing and know I can do better, but I’m genuinely afraid of the person I was on that stuff.
[+] [-] aidenn0|5 years ago|reply
Ritalin causes side effects for me as soon as I start to hit the therapeutic dose when titrating.
Adderall is terrible for me.
My youngest daughter is undoubtedly ADHD, and the insurance company requires you to try the first two before they will approve a third...
[+] [-] WhiteNoiz3|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Forgeties79|5 years ago|reply
After college I finally got diagnosed again after being off medication for 8 or so years. Grew up first doing Ritalin->adderall->concerta->no meds. I realized how needlessly difficult I made college for myself.
[+] [-] Izkata|5 years ago|reply
I don't have ADHD, but I'm curious what the modern one is.
Back in middle school, around 2001, I did a report on ADD and ADHD, and 3 of the medications that existed for it: Ritalin, Cylert, and I'm not certain of the third but from the other comments Adderall sounds like it could be it (though I think it started with a "D", is there one that does?). The only thing I remember from it is the conclusion that if I got diagnosed and needed medication, I'd refuse Ritalin, and that Cylert seemed like the best of the three.
[+] [-] disiplus|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jFriedensreich|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aantix|5 years ago|reply
We've been working through the book, "Finally Focused", to help our son. Magnesium supplementation is recommendation #1, Iron supplementation (if deficient as demonstrated by the test) and then the over-the-counter, lithium orotate. We haven't gotten further than chapter 3, yet.
[+] [-] haneefmubarak|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PragmaticPulp|5 years ago|reply
That's not entirely true, though. There is a lot of value in learning good habits to cope with ADHD and developing systems and mental models to improve your ADHD situation. ADHD isn't a purely dopaminergic "chemical imbalance" in the brain that can only be improved with chemical solutions, similar to how depression isn't entirely a chemical imbalance of serotonin.
One of the downsides of aggressive ADHD medication treatment is that it can handicap learning of good habits and coping strategies. Some, thought not all, patients quickly learn to rely on the stimulant effect of their medication to get anything done, assuming that medication is the only way to improve. This becomes a problem as the motivating effects of stimulant medication wear off after months or years, leaving only the concentration-enhancing side effects. Internet forums are full of 20-something ADHD patients who think the only way to address their ADHD is ever increasing doses of stimulants, but eventually they hit prescribing limits and increasing side effects. The solution is to approach ADHD as a combined treatment with minimal medication and heavy emphasis on self-discipline and healthy habits.
Regarding this study: Don't forget that ADHD medications aren't simply dopamine dispensers. All of the stimulant ADHD medications have significant norepinephrine activity, as well. There are many reasons why pure dopamine agonists aren't effective for ADHD.
> I wonder how different things would've been for me if I had started taking an effective medication at 16 and not at 25.
In reality, you may have benefited greatly by spending your formative years teaching yourself coping mechanisms and learning good study habits before introducing ADHD medication.
Many people take stimulant treatment for years or decades, but the unfortunate reality is that the long-term effectiveness of stimulants isn't exactly a sure thing. Clinical trials and studies rarely run for more than a few months. The studies on long-term patients are mixed, but not encourage for long-term effectiveness of stimulants ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11322742/ ). If you only recently started taking stimulants, you might be in somewhat of a "honeymoon phase" where the core effects are still strong. Note that after years of use, people will tend to overestimate the effects of the drug due to the severity of withdrawal symptoms on days off.
In short, I'd encourage you to continue addressing your ADHD symptoms with ever-improving self discipline, personal habits, and healthy lifestyle choices. The medication is part of a treatment regimen, but it shouldn't be the entirety of one's treatment regimen.
[+] [-] zarkov99|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paufernandez|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anonybadger|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aidenn0|5 years ago|reply
I'm an adult with ADHD and that paragraph describes me to a T, though it definitely was worse as a child
I got my first D grade in a subject in fifth grade, and the next seven years were basically my parents trying every tool at their disposal to motivate me to get better grades.
I was on academic probation four more terms than I wasn't in college, and graduated with a low C average after 5.5 years, plus two summer terms.
I got hired at the only company that forgot to ask for my GPA.
I think if I were just sightly less intelligent, I would have been in a world of hurt and possibly dead by now.
[+] [-] steve_adams_86|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sizzle|5 years ago|reply
Even though I'm successful now in tech with a huge salary, this experience of being treated like I had a made-up disorder (can't easily perceive it with no physical impairment/more obvious mental issues), and was invisible to the system full of cold-hearted academic administrators quick to academically disqualify me still makes me seethe and feel wronged to this very day.
Can anyone relate?
[+] [-] _dibly|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LocalH|5 years ago|reply
ADHD treatment is not ADHD friendly. Society is not ADHD friendly. Neurotypicals literally have the same scale of mental privilege as whites do in a racial context.
[+] [-] blodkorv|5 years ago|reply
I more and more realise that my brain and personality is not the kind that is made for desk work. I find it boring and difficult.
I have done other types of works that suits me better i beleive my life would be so much better if i just accepted that i was never to be sitting at a desk solving problems.
School has always been difficult for me, simply because it hard to learn the things you need to learn in shcool, for more intelligent individuals school is not the same big deal as it is for me. But thats just the way things is. The same way i was not born 2meter tall and an musculuar body.
I beleive that we will see more and more ADD/ADHD diagnosies in the future, simply because automation puts more demands on the individual and the jobs will be more mentally demanding.
I see a future where meds like adderal will be availble in the supermarkets.
Instead of giving people ADD/ADHD diagnosises we should just teach people to accept that not everyone are made for mentally demanding tasks and that not everyone goes thru school without it being a huge difficult task. Parents also needs to learn that their kids might not will be able to compete in the job markets in the future and the solution is not to medicate it away.
[+] [-] sizzle|5 years ago|reply
This hypothetical sends chills down by spine knowing I might be making a deal with the devil to get a temporary fix on ADHD symptoms now for increased risk of dopamine downregulation or neurodegeneration later.
Can anyone relate and/or give me some peace of mind? ~60mg/day for 12 years and not letting up anytime soon as long as I need my executive functions under my command to do computer work. If I drop the stimulants I can maybe get a low wage job doing basic IT service desk stuff or live a simple life doing a 'muscle memory' line of work e.g. Amazon factory worker, go to trade school for something hands on, etc. that doesn't require asynchronous access to my prefrontal cortex + memories + instantaneous storage/retrieval with my working memory for hours on end.
God I envy neurotypical people, I feel handicapped mentally in comparison to their baseline.
[+] [-] smnplk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbluth|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PragmaticPulp|5 years ago|reply
That’s not really true. Medication can absolutely help for severe cases, but falling into the trap of thinking that ADHD is a purely chemical problem that can only be addressed with chemical solutions can lead people to neglect the important lifestyle and self-discipline changes that will really help their situation in the long term.
Don’t get caught up in ideas that ADHD is “just dopamine”, because that’s a path to ignoring the fact that personal changes and therapy can improve ADHD immensely.
[+] [-] WarOnPrivacy|5 years ago|reply
Whereas people typically experience micro-rewards during the learning process, for people with ADHD, the reward response is too insufficient to reinforce learning. Without a proper reward system, a healthy learning system can't develop properly.
Some people firehose Will at the problem which may overcome an occasional challenge. That bandaid isn't sustainable, however.
[+] [-] scns|5 years ago|reply
not affiliated
https://www.amazon.com/Healing-ADD-Revised-Breakthrough-Prog...
A 80 minute video about ADD by the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWnJ4wjVu9k
[+] [-] Techbrunch|5 years ago|reply
"Amen has built a profitable business around the use of SPECT (single photon emission computed tomography) imaging for purported diagnostic purposes.[6] His marketing of SPECT scans and much of what he says about the brain and health in his books, media appearances, and marketing of his clinics has been condemned by scientists and doctors as lacking scientific validity and as being unethical, especially since the way SPECT is used in his clinics exposes people to harmful radiation with no clear benefit."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Amen
[+] [-] smw|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Amen
[+] [-] friendlybus|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quake|5 years ago|reply
But this study clarifies so much of my behaviour and self-image from when I was a kid to now. I bully myself fiercely, and never understood why I should be praised for high grades, when it was something expected of me. That definitely extends to now, where I can finish/deliver a product, but feel _nothing_ about it. No sense of accomplishment, no relief that something's shipped. Nothing. It stops me from taking on hobbies or really doing anything with the material that I learn. Leads to regular burnout and cycles of depression.
The article references methylphenidate as a good drug for ADHD, specifically for motivation. This makes me sad, because I'm on it, and not feeling very motivated.
[+] [-] emit_time|5 years ago|reply
It’s very annoying when I want to take the weekend off and have to suffer through massive withdrawal.
Honestly has changed my life for the better overall, but if anyone has any suggestions for trying to get rid of palpitations, it would be very much appreciated.
[+] [-] pontifier|5 years ago|reply
This inability to form habits is extreme. If something's not right in front of me I forget that it exists. I've tried to start smoking, but as soon as the pack is gone I forget to buy another. I don't shower until it starts to effect me. I don't sleep until I can't keep my eyes open. I forget to eat until my stomach hurts. I truly don't believe I can become addicted to anything. I've been tempted to try crack because I've heard that everybody gets addicted to it and I might be able to use it to create artificial motivation in myself. I tried chewing nicotine gum every time I took a shower, but I just couldn't remember to do it, and it wasn't helping enough with forming habits.
I also have memory problems and basically have to re-invent everything from scratch all the time. I'm really good at solving problems so I've been able to cover up most of my failings. One story that highlights this happened when I was taking the ACT. There was one question at the end that I had to invent calculus to solve. I had a feeling that I hadn't solved a problem like it before, but I went ahead and solved it anyway and got every question on the math section correct. My verbal skills on the other hand were just barely acceptable.
Another anecdote about lack of schedule and routine also comes from my highschool time. Between classes I'd routinely forget that I had another class to go to. I'd see someone in the hall and start talking until the bell rang. In my highschool being late 3 times was equivalent to an absence, and 7 absences was an automatic fail. Needless to say I had probably the worst GPA in history. I also did very well on tests, but could never ever remember to read my book or do my homework.
Basically, a consistent theme is I'm totally worthless until I stumble into a magical sprint where I get 2 months worth of work done overnight.
I just spent from 1:30am to about 5:00am in my car with my laptop and was able to make 6 much needed git commits as well as taking care of a bunch of other issues with my main project. The last commits were the end of August with 14 commits over just a few days.
Wow, that was a ramble, but I've been up for about 30 hours now so that's not surprising.
[+] [-] brundolf|5 years ago|reply
For a long time my response to this tendency was to try to control, direct, pin down my motivation so that I could stick with something until it was done. Doing this caused me to actually have a real deficit of motivation, instead of just an always-changing motivation. Once I stopped trying to control it and embraced jumping-around, following my interest wherever it led me, I actually had much more success seeing tasks through to completion (and even circling back to ones I'd left behind, because I wasn't feeling guilty about having left them behind). It's like my attention is highly fragmented, but I still have the same amount.
An ADD person's motivation is like a wild animal that you just have to give room to so it can do its thing. Hitch a ride to it, instead of trying to tame it, and you'll eventually get where you want to go.
[+] [-] zrkrlc|5 years ago|reply
Having no external source of motivation is the death of us.
[+] [-] LordFred|5 years ago|reply
http://russellbarkley.org/factsheets.html
The above link is a collection of PDFs summarizing key points on ADHD by Russel Barkley, generally considered by many in the ADHD community to be the 'god' of ADHD research.
[+] [-] victorkab|5 years ago|reply
I can focus easily on tasks - even hyper focus for hours. Problems arise when there's an important but boring task vs a nonessential but interesting task. I will struggle to just think about starting the boring task. It can be really crippling when working with other people or in a startup.
I tried to write about my own experiences with ADHD, in particular regarding distractions. https://www.kabdebon.com/founder/2020/08/25/creative-mayhem-...
[+] [-] Hewlberno|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lawrenceyan|5 years ago|reply
Before I started training myself to meditate, I noticed that drinking a lot of coffee seemed to help me focus better. Though it was only really until I started meditating that I realized it was possible to direct my focus/attention in such a calculated manner. I had always resigned myself to "my attention" controlling the actions I took rather than the other way around with me actively choosing how I apply it.
[+] [-] sergiomattei|5 years ago|reply
After I stopped, I was more hyperactive and less focused... Yet the hyperactivity compensated for the "less focused" part, and I finished a week's work in a day.
That's my experience with meds so far. They completely eliminate my anxiety and make me feel in control of my emotions. Yet they make me less productive than when I'm in a hyperactive rush (even if my focus is reduced).
So for now I'm just going to embrace my inconsistency (in terms of emotions, energy, and focus) because I think I'm way worse without it. Establishing a routine helps me cope much better - I feel waking up early and having a good morning dictates how productive my day will be.
On meds, I finally felt in control of my life and energy. But it also felt bland, boring. I didn't feel anything. I had no anxiety to push me to go the extra mile. My personality & cheeriness were nonexistent. And I was, overall, simply less productive.
Not doing that again.